Implications of new, shortened Sunday meeting schedule

[ksfisher]

Just now, toon said:

Will there still be fast and testimony meeting the first Sunday of each month?

 

Yes. No change there.

 

Just now, toon said:

In the past, nearly every ward that I had been in struggled to finish F&T meeting on time. Seems a good percentage of the time (less than 50% but still significant), we went over. With sacrament meeting now 15 minutes shorter, will there be more pressure to extend in order to accommodate likely the same amount of people each week who will want to share their testimonies?

Sacrament meeting is only 10 minutes shorter.  Decreasing the amount of time spent on announcements will help offset this.  If wards are struggling with starting on time doing that will help as well.

[rockpond]

24 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

Decreasing the amount of time spent on announcements will help offset this.

I totally support decreasing the time for announcements in Sacrament meeting... our ward has been pretty good at keeping announcements to a minimum.  But, as a ward YM president, I have a concern with having eliminated priesthood opening exercises...

Priesthood Opening was my last chance to be able to address the parents (in this case, just the dads).  I'm not saying that I am opposed to this particular aspect of the change, it just means that we're going to have to find new/better ways to communicate with parents.  I currently use email, text message blasts, Facebook, and a website but that still doesn't seem to catch everyone.  My initial thoughts are that I may need to drop in to EQ and RS to be able to speak directly to parents.

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, Amulek said:

Thanks for posting this. It was really informative.

One thing I haven't quite figured out though: Why, with the exception of primary, are we only going to have closing prayers during the second hour? 

It expressly states that there should not be opening prayers for sunday school, YM, WM, etc.

I'm curious if anyone has thoughts as to why that might be. 

It's been something that has been puzzling to me which I haven't quite yet been able to think of a good explanation. 

 

I can only guess, but perhaps it is so the Sabbath worship experience can feel more seamless. We will have just had a closing prayer in sacrament meeting; perhaps it seems a bit much to turn around and have a group prayer for the next thing. I’m guessing that’s the reason we haven’t had opening prayers in individual quorum meetings, having just had one in opening exercises. 

Edited October 8, 2018 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

5 hours ago, randy said:

I can appreciate the need and sentiment of expanding our horizons regarding singing other hymns that are less familiar.  But, I still feel that a hymn that is familiar and beloved...should be used for the opening hymn in Sacrament mtg.  It just invites the spirit versus one that is so difficult and/or unfamiliar that the singing is barely more than a whisper or mumbling  of words.  I remember  back in the day during Sunday School time when there was a time set aside to learn new hymns.  That's important as well. I enjoyed that too.  But, again...if we were to follow the example we see in GC, wherein we sing a few, if not several of the more familiar and beloved hymns.   I can't even remember the last time we sang Redeemer of Israel, Spirit of God, High on the Mountain Top, We Thank Thee Oh God for a Prophet, Come Come Ye Saints, Praise to the Man, Faith of our Fathers, Come Follow Me,  I Know that My Redeemer Lives, Let Us All Press On, There is Sunshine in my Soul Today.....to name just a few......in Sacrament meeting.

I guess I just miss them..and the spirit they brought to the meetings in which they were sung.

 

I, on the other hand, see those hymns sung all the time — precisely because they are what people are used to. They are part of the unsealed portion of the hymn book. 

And I love those hymns too. Some of them are my favorites. But I am delighted on occasion when a hymn is sung that I have not heard in a while that I find beautiful. It could not be further from the truth that I don’t feel the Spirit on those occasions. 

Edited October 8, 2018 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

4 hours ago, toon said:

Will there still be fast and testimony meeting the first Sunday of each month?

In the past, nearly every ward that I had been in struggled to finish F&T meeting on time. Seems a good percentage of the time (less than 50% but still significant), we went over. With sacrament meeting now 15 minutes shorter, will there be more pressure to extend in order to accommodate likely the same amount of people each week who will want to share their testimonies?

Our fast meetings always end on time. This may be because the bishopric member who conducts announces in advance what time we will go to with the testimonies, and the bishopric is conscientious about keeping to that. 

Edited October 8, 2018 by Scott Lloyd

[ksfisher]

1 hour ago, rockpond said:

I totally support decreasing the time for announcements in Sacrament meeting... our ward has been pretty good at keeping announcements to a minimum.  But, as a ward YM president, I have a concern with having eliminated priesthood opening exercises...

Priesthood Opening was my last chance to be able to address the parents (in this case, just the dads).  I'm not saying that I am opposed to this particular aspect of the change, it just means that we're going to have to find new/better ways to communicate with parents.  I currently use email, text message blasts, Facebook, and a website but that still doesn't seem to catch everyone.  My initial thoughts are that I may need to drop in to EQ and RS to be able to speak directly to parents.

When I had boys in young mens I did appreciate these announcements. 

Being in the bishopric and making announcements now myself, I'm occasionally surprised by the number of times I'm asked about something, later in the day, that was announced in sacrament meeting.  Many people don't seem to pay attention.  Everyone seems to have a different way that is best to communicate with them.  Personally, I find that I get so much email that if I don't put something from an email on my calendar immediately I loose track of it.

[randy]

49 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I, on the other hand, see those hymns sung all the time — precisely because they are what people are used to. They are part of the unsealed portion of the hymn book. 

And I love those hymns too. Some of them are my favorites. But I am delighted on occasion when a hymn is sung that I have not heard in a while that I find beautiful. It could not be further from the truth that I don’t feel the Spirit in those occasions. 

Scott...I certainly would not argue that the spirit cannot be there regardless of the hymns sung...I suppose that is just my perception....or I suppose more accurately.....my own weakness.  We agree that all the hymns of the Church are treasures...and as such...all should be brought out now and again and shown off!   

[rockpond]

6 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

When I had boys in young mens I did appreciate these announcements. 

Being in the bishopric and making announcements now myself, I'm occasionally surprised by the number of times I'm asked about something, later in the day, that was announced in sacrament meeting.  Many people don't seem to pay attention.  Everyone seems to have a different way that is best to communicate with them.  Personally, I find that I get so much email that if I don't put something from an email on my calendar immediately I loose track of it.

1.  Yes, I think announcements at the beginning of sacrament meeting are often unheard (people are getting kids settled, coming in late, thoughts are on their upcoming lesson, etc).

2.  Totally agree that everyone has different communication preferences.  That's why I use texting, email, facebook, groupme, and a website for our ward YM announcements -- my effort to give everyone access in their preferred method.

3.  I was really hopeful that with this schedule change, they would encourage a short "ward business" time AFTER the closing prayer in Sacrament Meeting but BEFORE everyone left for the second hour.  My parents ward has been doing that for years and I think it is really effective (though it does take away some lesson time).

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, rockpond said:

I totally support decreasing the time for announcements in Sacrament meeting... our ward has been pretty good at keeping announcements to a minimum.  But, as a ward YM president, I have a concern with having eliminated priesthood opening exercises...

Priesthood Opening was my last chance to be able to address the parents (in this case, just the dads).  I'm not saying that I am opposed to this particular aspect of the change, it just means that we're going to have to find new/better ways to communicate with parents.  I currently use email, text message blasts, Facebook, and a website but that still doesn't seem to catch everyone.  My initial thoughts are that I may need to drop in to EQ and RS to be able to speak directly to parents.

As a YW president, I did appreciate that the email on all the changes pointed out that a few minutes during Sunday school can be used for RS/priesthood/YW announcements.  It would mean giving two weeks worth of announcements at a time but maybe it'll work.

For YW, we never got to give announcements in front of the parents so the change (if I do announcements during sunday school) will actually increase my ability to announce things in front of the parents rather than decrease it.

[rockpond]

4 minutes ago, bluebell said:

As a YW president, I did appreciate that the email on all the changes pointed out that a few minutes during Sunday school can be used for RS/priesthood/YW announcements.  It would mean giving two weeks worth of announcements at a time but maybe it'll work.

I read the document but missed that... that is great news and a good point -- a few minutes at the beginning of Sunday School would be better than priesthood opening exercises because I'd have Moms also.

6 minutes ago, bluebell said:

For YW, we never got to give announcements in front of the parents so the change (if I do announcements during sunday school) will actually increase my ability to announce things in front of the parents rather than decrease it.

Fair enough. 

I'm glad you responded... If I can take just a couple minutes of Sunday school when there is important YM business -- that may be even better than Sacrament meeting (where I think attention is very divided).

[Amulek]

3 hours ago, rongo said:

It is weird. It would be one thing if sacrament meeting didn't have a closing prayer, so the whole 2 hour block is "sandwiched" between the sacrament meeting OP, and the 2nd hour CP. But it's not. You have the first hour opened and closed with a prayer, and the 2nd hour closed with a prayer. Strange. 

I know. 

What's stands out to me though is how intentional the directions are about not having an opening prayer in any of the classes (again, with the curious exception of primary). 

It's not a major deal. Just something that instantly made me wonder why that might be.

It's one of those questions that I would think I ought to be able to answer (or, at least, reason out) fairly easily - even if the answer is just based on administrative tradition - but I haven't been able to think of anything that really fits just yet. 

 

[Scott Lloyd]

One thing that puzzles me about the instructions. They say that a hymn may occasionally be sung In Relief Society to complement the lesson. They say the same for Young Women classes. But there is no such provision for priesthood quorum meetings. Wouldn’t priesthood holders likewise benefit from such occasional hymn singing?  There have been many times when I have led the singing in priesthood meeting and have been thrilled when my brethren have sung one of our beloved hymns with gusto, even when (or at times especially when) we haven’t had piano accompaniment. 

Edited October 8, 2018 by Scott Lloyd

[rongo]

Just now, Scott Lloyd said:

One thing that puzzles me about the instructions. They say that a hymn may occasionally be sung In Relief Society to complement the lesson. They say the same for Young Wimen classes. But there is no such provision for priesthood quorum meetings. 

That's because it is expected that we men be on social media during that time. Unlike the women, who were ordered to undergo a 10 day fast . . . 

[Tacenda]

12 minutes ago, rongo said:

That's because it is expected that we men be on social media during that time. Unlike the women, who were ordered to undergo a 10 day fast . . . 

🤮

[JAHS]

2 hours ago, rockpond said:

I was really hopeful that with this schedule change, they would encourage a short "ward business" time AFTER the closing prayer in Sacrament Meeting but BEFORE everyone left for the second hour.  My parents ward has been doing that for years and I think it is really effective (though it does take away some lesson time).

That's a good idea, especially for members who come late for sac meeting. I don't see why a Bishop could not do something like that anyway if there are some important announcements.

[Hamba Tuhan]

5 hours ago, toon said:

In the past, nearly every ward that I had been in struggled to finish F&T meeting on time.

This is a problem in our ward. We already keep announcements to a minimum and beg people to keep their testimonies brief, which overwhelmingly they do. But as soon as the bishopric member opens up the time for people to share, there's a rush of people to the front. Sometimes they fill the stand and the front pew. Then we spend the rest of the meeting trying to get everyone through. This is precisely what happened two days ago, and I was sitting there thinking, this is never going to work with 10 fewer minutes. Obviously, we'll have to figure out how to make it work. I love our testimony meetings!

[SettingDogStar]

I'm just worried that to many members (and I'm not excluded from this) will enjoy the shift, but lose sight of the purpose of it. President Nelson wants to move the gospel into the home and out of the "church", if that makes sense. However I really think this is another revelation inspired of the Lord to help strengthen the members who want to really personal commit with their families, and those who are only partially committed. The Church has released new pamphlets and guides for families to follow to efficiently utilize the time the Lord is now offering us! I just hope that I and every member don't just feel happy about getting a better Sunday nap but a better option for a spiritual feast! To be honest I still haven't even peaked at the guidelines yet haha

[Tacenda]

4 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

One thing that puzzles me about the instructions. They say that a hymn may occasionally be sung In Relief Society to complement the lesson. They say the same for Young Women classes. But there is no such provision for priesthood quorum meetings. Wouldn’t priesthood holders likewise benefit from such occasional hymn singing?  There have been many times when I have led the singing in priesthood meeting and have been thrilled when my brethren have sung one of our beloved hymns with gusto, even when (or at times especially when) we haven’t had piano accompaniment. 

Do yours meet in the cultural hall, adjacent to the chapel? I remember each week during our Sac Mtg in my old ward, the PH quorum from another ward were singing with lots of gusto!  Could this maybe be why they nixed the men from singing, that it can be heard or distracting to the Sac Mtgs? 

[JAHS]

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

Do yours meet in the cultural hall, adjacent to the chapel? I remember each week during our Sac Mtg in my old ward, the PH quorum from another ward were singing with lots of gusto!  Could this maybe be why they nixed the men from singing, that it can be heard or distracting to the Sac Mtgs? 

We meet in an overflow area divided off from the chapel. And I would hope that would not be a reason to nix the singing in priesthood meeting. I hope this is just an oversight, and I hope we are still permitted to sing hymns during quorum meetings. I would be very surprised to learn we are not. 

[JAHS]

15 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

We meet in an overflow area divided off from the chapel. And I would hope that would not be a reason to nix the singing in priesthood meeting. I hope this is just an oversight, and I hope we are still permitted to sing hymns during quorum meetings. I would be very surprised to learn we are not. 

I would think an Elder's quorum president would have the authority to do that  if he wants. 

[Tacenda]

5 hours ago, Tacenda said:

🤮

Come to think of it, maybe I should have had a fast 10 years ago, indefinitely.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Tacenda

[SettingDogStar]

While I LOVE the church I have often felt that church just felt so long, more of a burden then a blessing. This wasn't always the case but more often then not by third hour I was just waiting to go home. However I think part of this has come from the repetition of lessons, poor preparation, and lack of enthusiasm from teachers and students so that the Spirit wasn't very much present as it ought to have been. If we recall in the early days of the Church (especially in the precursor to High Priest/Elders Quorum classes, the School of the Prophets) prophesying, the Gift of the Holy Ghost, and great knowledge was poured out upon the members that testified and taught lessons. Of course these great miracles occurred while they were talking about the SIMPLE PRINCIPLES of the gospels like we do now in our classes, but I think we go about it the wrong way. 

I pray that the two hour block will motivate teachers and students to be really engaged and filled with the Spirit. The sacrament should be a totally powerful and spiritual experience that brings the spirit down on the individuals that have repented, which would hopefully prepare us for group teaching afterwards for an hour? 

This is my thoughts I guess, I love church meetings but I totally see the potential for how powerful a 2 hour block is meant to be..along with increasing Faith in the Home!!!!

[JAHS]

Something that will have to be different at least in my ward is that the Bishop often uses the second hour Sunday school time to meet in his office with members who need to talk to him.
I guess those meetings will all have to wait till after church now.