Bill Reel’s Conference Predictions

[ksfisher]

47 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

CFR.  Joseph F. Smith never would have considered this considering his actions concerning the garment during his administration.  I think he's citing Anderson wrong.  Took a quick thumb through it and sae no such thing.  Just numerous Smith quotes to the contrary.

Looking through my kindle version of the book I can’t find anything to support Reel’s assertion either.  

[Bernard Gui]

4 hours ago, rockpond said:

With respect to #4, Reel cites a story from Devry Anderson’s book on development of LDS temple worship that this garment idea came close to being implemented by Joseph F Smith. 

As a side note, my great-uncle was serving in the Southern States Mission when JFS was President of the Church. Mobs in some areas would stop unrecognized male travelers and rip open their shirts to see if they were wearing temple garments and then beat them if they were. I wonder if JFS was thinking of this.

[Mystery Meat]

So take these for what they are worth (not much):

I have heard the two hour block tests have been a mixed bag. The point is not supposed to be to simply have less church; they want the members to spend more time on Sunday serving, doing family history, studying, etc. As I understand it they are not happy with the results and Members have basically used it to get out of church obligations.

I have actually heard from someone I trust that the endowment is going to be shortened. It is the one thing on here that gives me pause on the rest of this list. As it was explained to me a week ago, endowments have become a bit of bottleneck as far as ordinances go. It takes two hours to get a single name done per person, whereas with baptisms and sealings you can get 1 done per minute. I would not be surprised to see this change. Unless my source's source is actually...Bill Reel.

I have heard nothing from my sources on the others. I have heard that changes are coming to the role of the bishop and the roles of the Elders Q. President and Relief Society President (essentially that the Bishop will have his responsibilities reduced and EQP and RSP will be given more). Should be an exciting weekend.

[Robert F. Smith]

5 hours ago, rockpond said:

Bill Reel released a new episode of his Mormon Discussions Podcast yesterday (10/1/18) that gives six predictions for general conference. 

1. Lowering the age for sisters to serve missions (to 18) and allowing them for serve for 24 months. 

2. The two-hour block. 

3.  Removing the one year waiting period between a civil marriage and a temple sealing. 

4.  Changing the “requirement” of wearing garments to only when you are doing temple work. 

5.  Creation of a short endowment ceremony, under an hour, that cuts out the video segments. 

6.  Long term (5 year) closure of the Salt Lake Temple for major renovations.  Reel specifically put forward this one as a test of his source.  He said that the source that gave him the above items said that the SL Temple closure was discussed in the same meetings as the other items above. 

He isn’t necessarily saying that all six items will happen in this conference, just that they are all being discussed among the Brethren.  

Sounds more like a Bill Reel wish list, 90% of which will not be adopted in the near term.  So much for Bill as a prophet.

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

I would and I expect seismic changes in the practices of the church over the next decade or so with many beloved cultural practices dying off. I just don't think Bill's predictions are what it will involve.

Which cultural practices do you have in mind?

[Rain]

3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

My question to many on this board, is what would you do if these things happen, could you still stay fully believing? Actually, let me add one more, that is going around the rumour mill. The fact that the church is softening towards believing the BoM isn't historical. Now, if anyone dare, what would this do to your belief in the LDS church?

If a change bothered me in some way I would make sure I was feeling humble enough to get the right answer even if I didn’t like it and then take it to the Lord and work with Him in doing whatever He asked of me.

 

[Rain]

Just wondering - if the temple actually was changed would we even hear about them at conference? I remember after one change several years ago a worker announced before a session not to share there had been a change, but just to encourage people to come to the temple. Now, I'm actually wondering if other temples announced it that way as well.

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

Which cultural practices do you have in mind?

Jello salad with vegetables in it.

[Hamba Tuhan]

7 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Jello salad with vegetables in it.

Is this even a thing, or is it just a meme that gets repeated until everyone thinks it's a thing? In all my years in America, I never once saw it, in or out of any church.

(By the way, adding veg to gelatine does not a 'salad' make; it's still just dessert. Whilst I'm at it, a fair few American friends post those Facebook video recipes, and adding apples and caramel-filled chocolates to whipped cream also does not result in a 'salad' ...)

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

Which cultural practices do you have in mind?

The problem is that very often we don't see cultural practices as merely cultural practices until someone points the fact out to us.

Edited October 3, 2018 by Hamba Tuhan

[The Nehor]

1 minute ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Is this even a thing, or is it just a meme that gets repeated until everyone thinks it's a thing? (By the way, adding veg to gelatine does not a 'salad' make; it's still just dessert. Whilst I'm at it, a fair few American friends post those Facebook video recipes, and adding apples and caramel-filled chocolates to whipped cream also does not make a 'salad' ...)

The problem is that very often we don't see cultural practices as merely cultural practices until someone points them out to us.

It is a thing. Thankfully a dying thing.

I honestly do not know what cultural practices need to die. I only have vague suspicions.

[Rain]

37 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Is this even a thing, or is it just a meme that gets repeated until everyone thinks it's a thing? In all my years in America, I never once saw it, in or out of any church.

(By the way, adding veg to gelatine does not a 'salad' make; it's still just dessert. Whilst I'm at it, a fair few American friends post those Facebook video recipes, and adding apples and caramel-filled chocolates to whipped cream also does not result in a 'salad' ...)

The problem is that very often we don't see cultural practices as merely cultural practices until someone points the fact out to us.

Years ago carrots used to be a thing, not so much anymore. Earlier than that there were a lot of recipes in magazines for different veggie/gelatin salads. 

In the US, if you have a mix of fruit and/veggies then you have a "salad" though if it is all fruit it is usually called a "fruit salad". I think there are varying degrees of salad to dessert. 

A Snickers Salad should definitely be a dessert.

Edited October 3, 2018 by Rain

[Meerkat]

4 hours ago, Tacenda said:

My question to many on this board, is what would you do if these things happen, could you still stay fully believing? Actually, let me add one more, that is going around the rumor mill. The fact that the church is softening towards believing the BoM isn't historical. Now, if anyone dare, what would this do to your belief in the LDS church?

I am grateful that the Church does not proscribe what we must believe.  There is enough ambiguity in all the scriptures to defend most any position.  The Articles of Faith are not like the creeds that say we must believe in an indescribable God, or not be considered Christian.  The thing that keeps me fully believing is the Holy Ghost, that gives evidence in a very personal way.  The policies of the church may changes, but Jesus is verifiably the Savior.  Joseph Smith was the Lord's prophet of the Restoration and the Book of Mormon is a true book, regardless of any person's doubt or interpretation of any scriptures.  We always have a choice whether or not to believe anything.  Those who have obtained a witness from the Holy Ghost bear a particular responsibility to witness of the light they have been given.  We may express doubt when there is doubt.  But embrace and act according to knowledge we have actually obtained from God by the Holy Ghost.  1 Thes. 5:21-22 states: "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.  Abstain from all appearance of evil."  There is much we don't know.  There is much that pertains to futurity.  We have much to learn line upon line, precept upon precept.  We must allow that we don't have all knowledge yet.  Proving all things requires patience.   Holding fast that which is good should protect us from throwing out the knowledge we have been given by the Holy Ghost.  Abstaining from the very appearance of evil should also protect us from any rash decision to leave what the Holy Ghost has revealed to us that is true and good.  

Edited October 3, 2018 by Meerkat

[Hamba Tuhan]

1 minute ago, Rain said:

I think there are varying degrees of salad to dessert. 

I don't. They're not even on the same spectrum, in my opinion ... 

[Scott Lloyd]

28 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Is this even a thing, or is it just a meme that gets repeated until everyone thinks it's a thing? In all my years in America, I never once saw it, in or out of any church.

(By the way, adding veg to gelatine does not a 'salad' make; it's still just dessert. Whilst I'm at it, a fair few American friends post those Facebook video recipes, and adding apples and caramel-filled chocolates to whipped cream also does not result in a 'salad' ...)

The problem is that very often we don't see cultural practices as merely cultural practices until someone points the fact out to us.

Haven’t seen it since my youth, but I definitely recall Jello with shredded carrots set into it being served at ward banquets and such. My friend called it “polluted Jello.”

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, Rain said:

If a change bothered me in some way I would make sure I was feeling humble enough to get the right answer even if I didn’t like it and then take it to the Lord and work with Him in doing whatever He asked of me.

 

Why even waste a nanosecond worrying about such an outlandish hypothetical? 

[Meerkat]

4 hours ago, rongo said:

I'll tell you a rumor I could really get behind: replacing Come Follow Me with . . . the old manuals. Expose kids to the really good stories and analogies of yesteryear.  We've done it now for, what, six years or so? I don't think that the youth who have cycled through have shown awesomeness at "higher bar" lessons, thinking, spiritual maturity, etc. (I think the results of this long pilot speak for themselves). Let's try the manuals again! 

(I realize that we're still in the fad phase of "counseling with councils: classroom edition!", and that this won't change anytime soon. But it's a rumor that would increase my heart rate, unlike rumors about garments or gutting the endowment).

We can still share the "really good stories and analogies of yesteryear."  The advantage of the new programs is they help us role play thinking on our feet and expressing what we believe.  That way, when the opportunity presents itself to share the Restored Gospel, we don't freeze.  We can follow the Spirit and testify.  That's the advantage I have seen in my own life.  Our discussions in Gospel Doctrine and with family members and others are wonderful.  

[Hamba Tuhan]

13 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Why even waste a nanosecond worrying about such an outlandish hypothetical? 

I suspect most of us will be bothered by a change at some point or another. Knowing how to deal with it, even if it's just someone else's hypothetical for now, isn't without merit, in my opinion.

[Rain]

6 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Why even waste a nanosecond worrying about such an outlandish hypothetical? 

No worrying involved.

We send missionaries all over the world to teach people things that may seem very odd or bothersome to them. I cannot feel honest in my teaching of others or understanding of them if I cannot consider asking such things about my own church. 

Tacenda has had a lot of questions over the years. If I cannot allow myself to try to see where she is coming from then I am of no help to her. 

 

[Scott Lloyd]

24 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I suspect most of us will be bothered by a change at some point or another. Knowing how to deal with it, even if it's just someone else's hypothetical for now, isn't without merit, in my opinion.

Not all hypotheticals are created equal. Some are real possibilities, however remote they may be; others are not. 

[Hamba Tuhan]

14 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Not all hypotheticals are created equal. Some are real possibilities, however remote they may be; others are not. 

This is not an area where I feel compelled to judge. In fact, I think there may be value in practising responding to extremely unlikely hypotheticals ... a bit like training at very high altitudes.

I have a strong feeling none of us sails through the experience of discipleship without our loyalty (and our ability to receive revelation that we dislike!) really being tested in some rather painful way.

Edited October 3, 2018 by Hamba Tuhan

[Gray]

6 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Is this even a thing, or is it just a meme that gets repeated until everyone thinks it's a thing? In all my years in America, I never once saw it, in or out of any church.

 

My mom used to make green Jell-O with grated carrots mixed in.

 

[Gray]

9 hours ago, The Nehor said:

The reason for that is gone. We invented air conditioning.

Counterpoint: global warming

[CV75]

13 hours ago, rockpond said:

Bill Reel released a new episode of his Mormon Discussions Podcast yesterday (10/1/18) that gives six predictions for general conference. 

1. Lowering the age for sisters to serve missions (to 18) and allowing them for serve for 24 months. 

2. The two-hour block. 

3.  Removing the one year waiting period between a civil marriage and a temple sealing. 

4.  Changing the “requirement” of wearing garments to only when you are doing temple work. 

5.  Creation of a short endowment ceremony, under an hour, that cuts out the video segments. 

6.  Long term (5 year) closure of the Salt Lake Temple for major renovations.  Reel specifically put forward this one as a test of his source.  He said that the source that gave him the above items said that the SL Temple closure was discussed in the same meetings as the other items above. 

He isn’t necessarily saying that all six items will happen in this conference, just that they are all being discussed among the Brethren.  

I think Dr. Steve Brule has a better grasp on the subject.

[HappyJackWagon]

First, I'll just say that I'll be very surprised if all of these things happen. I'm very skeptical of these "inside sources" claims & like MFBukowski said, there is a HUGE difference between discussing something in a meeting and actually pulling the trigger on it.

But I'll also say that the all of the changes seem possible. Is it possible the SL Temple requires significant renovations? If so, what would that require and how long would it take. I have no idea. 5 years seems long, but what do I know  

Shortening the endowment- I doubt it will happen, but it sure could. The endowment has been modified numerous times. In the earliest iterations it was HOURS long. It has been shortened over time. How can we be certain it wouldn't be shortened again?

Changing the wedding/sealing policy so that the wedding happens first and the sealing at the temple later, seems very reasonable to me. Obviously it works that way in many parts of the world.

2 Hour block. Sounds like wishful thinking but it's possible. The craziest version of the speculation I've heard is that Sacrament meeting will only be 15-20 minutes. Welcome, opening prayer and hymn, sacrament, close. Then on to PH/RS & SS. Seems very unlikely but with Nelson, who knows.

Changing the policy about the temple garment- why not? The garment itself has been changed many times. Requirement for wearing it has been changed many times. I do recall reading in Anderson's book about requiring the wearing the garment in the temple only nearly happened. But as I recall it, it was discussed in a meeting. There was general consensus. 1 or 2 of the apostles even shared the info with their wives who were very excited about it. But then when other apostles returned to town and shared their opinions, the change was scuttled. I don't have time to search and provide references, but that's what I recall reading.

The only instruction about the garment is to "wear it throughout your life". That can be interpreted many ways. Obviously a change to temple only would be an adjustment, but even if I wore my garments once a month when I attended the temple, and did so for the rest of my life, I would be wearing them throughout my life.

Changing the missionary age again- meh. whatever. Could happen but the policy change wouldn't be significant

Someone made a statement earlier about how there are many conservative members and they couldn't handle this much change. There may be some truth to that BUT I think people would be excited for massive changes, not because they believe things are wrong now, but because it would indicate real leadership and revelation. I think many members, even conservative ones get excited about any change, even if they are only policy/procedure.

[Tacenda]

6 hours ago, Rain said:

No worrying involved.

We send missionaries all over the world to teach people things that may seem very odd or bothersome to them. I cannot feel honest in my teaching of others or understanding of them if I cannot consider asking such things about my own church. 

Tacenda has had a lot of questions over the years. If I cannot allow myself to try to see where she is coming from then I am of no help to her. 

 

🤗