Bill Reel’s Conference Predictions

[Hamba Tuhan]

10 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

My question to many on this board, is what would you do if these things happen, could you still stay fully believing?

This question reminds me of what we were told by Elder Bednar when he was here for training 3.5 years. He told us that the Church is going to change in form almost beyond recognition, and that it will be the American Saints who will struggle the most with this since they love current Church culture so much and equate it with the Gospel.

This past Monday was a public holiday, and so I took our four Elders on a difficult 9-kilometre walk through our deepest gorge (located in our stake boundaries). As we walked, we sang, and that led to discussing the creation of the new hymnbook. Our current missionaries include three Americans (one of them of Tongan background) and one Thai. They unanimously agreed with me that it's going to be great when we're all singing African and Islander hymns in sacrament meeting.

[Duncan]

As to the endowment being shortened, DUMB! I think it's a privileged 6 temples in every direction to take, position. I traveled 6 hours on friday to get to the Temple and then 6 hours back. Would I or anyone go if it was 30 minutes long? no!!!!!! IIRC the Temple endowment used to be a lot longer so they did cut back, but it was Live then but still 

[rongo]

10 minutes ago, rockpond said:

Agreed.  I made the point in another thread here regarding all the reports that the 2-hour block was being tested out in certain areas... a test can return a positive result OR a negative one.  Performing the test doesn’t mean the change is imminent. 

Aaaaannnnnddddd . . . 

These two-hour block pilots have been going on for many years now. The Chile and Finland ones were a really long time ago . . . like 10-15 years ago. That pilot programs are happening right now means nothing. 

The kicker is the new curriculum changes. Bill's claim would require that the Church expend a lot of time and resources into big things, only to whipsaw and pull the plug and the rug out on them with breakneck speed. The Church just doesn't do that sort of quick, institutional momentum pivots. Look at how long it's taking us to get out of Scouting.  

At minimum, we're going to get to use the 2019 curriculum. Which will require a three-hour block.

Edited October 3, 2018 by rongo

[rockpond]

1 minute ago, rongo said:

Aaaaannnnnddddd . . . 

These two-hour block pilots have been going on for many years now. The Chile and Finland ones were a really long time ago . . . like 10-15 years ago. That pilot programs are happening right now means nothing. 

The kicker is the new curriculum changes. Bill's claim would require that the Church expend a lot of time and resources into big things, only to whipsaw and pull the plug and the rug out on them with breakneck speed. The Church just doesn't do that sort of quick, institutional momentum pivots. Look at how long it's taking us to get out of Scouting.  

I actually think that the curriculum changes they have made in the last few years would work very well with the 2-hour block theory that has SS alternating with PH/RS.  That’s one reason I think it could happen now... what they’ve been doing could have been preparing us for it. 

Edited October 3, 2018 by rockpond

[Tacenda]

2 minutes ago, Duncan said:

As to the endowment being shortened, DUMB! I think it's a privileged 6 temples in every direction to take, position. I traveled 6 hours on friday to get to the Temple and then 6 hours back. Would I or anyone go if it was 30 minutes long? no!!!!!! IIRC the Temple endowment used to be a lot longer so they did cut back, but it was Live then but still 

I hear ya!! But maybe you could get in baptisms, washing and annointing, endowment, sealings as well? 

[Hamba Tuhan]

4 minutes ago, Duncan said:

As to the endowment being shortened, DUMB! I think it's a privileged 6 temples in every direction to take, position. I traveled 6 hours on friday to get to the Temple and then 6 hours back. Would I or anyone go if it was 30 minutes long? no!!!!!!

This. My total travel time to and from the temple this last weekend was close to eight hours, so less than for you, but I do everything I can to make my time spent in the temple commensurate with the time it takes me to get there and back. I've always done at least two sessions, and now as an ordinance worker, I'm in the temple for at least six hours each time I go.

Despite the near-global reach of our missions, the Saints in the centre still live in a bubble that doesn't resemble reality for most of us.

Edited October 3, 2018 by Hamba Tuhan

[rockpond]

4 minutes ago, Duncan said:

As to the endowment being shortened, DUMB! I think it's a privileged 6 temples in every direction to take, position. I traveled 6 hours on friday to get to the Temple and then 6 hours back. Would I or anyone go if it was 30 minutes long? no!!!!!! IIRC the Temple endowment used to be a lot longer so they did cut back, but it was Live then but still 

If they shortened the endowment (and I’m not saying I believe Reel) I still believe you’d drive that far to the temple.  You would just do multiple sessions. 

Admit it.

[rongo]

4 minutes ago, rockpond said:

I actually think that the curriculum changes they have made in the last few years would work very well with the 2-hour block theory that has SS alternating with PH/RS.  That’s one reason I think it could happen now... what they’ve been doing could have been preparing us for it. 

The "home church" aspects, yes. But, not the primary and ym/yw aspects. We have at least 2019 before the deregulation . . .  

[rockpond]

9 minutes ago, rongo said:

The "home church" aspects, yes. But, not the primary and ym/yw aspects. We have at least 2019 before the deregulation . . .  

The YM Come Follow Me manual and the Youth SS Come Follow Me manual have the same themes each month.  That would work well for switching each week. 

I don’t know about primary, but primary would continue each week (under the theoretical speculation). 

 

[Tacenda]

25 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

This question reminds me of what we were told by Elder Bednar when he was here for training 3.5 years. He told us that the Church is going to change in form almost beyond recognition, and that it will be the American Saints who will struggle the most with this since they love current Church culture so much and equate it with the Gospel.

This past Monday was a public holiday, and so I took our four Elders on a difficult 9-kilometre walk through our deepest gorge (located in our stake boundaries). As we walked, we sang, and that led to discussing the creation of the new hymnbook. Our current missionaries include three Americans (one of them of Tongan background) and one Thai. They unanimously agreed with me that it's going to be great when we're all singing African and Islander hymns in sacrament meeting.

I agree!! 😁

[Tacenda]

22 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

This. My total travel time to and from the temple this last weekend was close to eight hours, so less than for you, but I do everything I can to make my time spent in the temple commensurate with the time it takes me to get there and back. I've always done at least two sessions, and now as an ordinance worker, I'm in the temple for at least six hours each time I go.

Despite the near-global reach of our missions, the Saints in the centre still live in a bubble that doesn't resemble reality for most of us.

You'd be sick if I told you how close I use to live by the temple and not go as often as I should have. 10 min. Pretty darn sad right?

[Scott Lloyd]

A couple of years ago, Reel claimed to have it from an inside source that the November 2015 policy change would be quietly dropped within the next year as part of a revision of the handbook. The following year came and went, and nothing like that ever occurred. He doesn’t have a very good record for prognostications. 

Most,  if not all, of this stuff smells like what he would do if he were given free reign to reshape the Church according to his own prideful whim. 

Edited October 3, 2018 by Scott Lloyd

[Duncan]

26 minutes ago, rockpond said:

If they shortened the endowment (and I’m not saying I believe Reel) I still believe you’d drive that far to the temple.  You would just do multiple sessions. 

Admit it.

ahahhahahhaha! well, if you don't drive with slowpokes...............#whatstakingsolong

[Duncan]

29 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I hear ya!! But maybe you could get in baptisms, washing and annointing, endowment, sealings as well? 

I can't do baptisms, I hurt my hands in a freak pencil accident, I just don't like to burden my friends with it🤚

[rongo]

9 minutes ago, rockpond said:

The YM Come Follow Me manual and the Youth SS Come Follow Me manual have the same themes each month.  That would work well for switching each week. 

I don’t know about primary, but primary would continue each week (under the theoretical speculation). 

I'll tell you a rumor I could really get behind: replacing Come Follow Me with . . . the old manuals. Expose kids to the really good stories and analogies of yesteryear.  We've done it now for, what, six years or so? I don't think that the youth who have cycled through have shown awesomeness at "higher bar" lessons, thinking, spiritual maturity, etc. (I think the results of this long pilot speak for themselves). Let's try the manuals again! 

(I realize that we're still in the fad phase of "counseling with councils: classroom edition!", and that this won't change anytime soon. But it's a rumor that would increase my heart rate, unlike rumors about garments or gutting the endowment).  

 

[Tacenda]

2 minutes ago, Duncan said:

I can't do baptisms, I hurt my hands in a freak pencil accident, I just don't like to burden my friends with it🤚

Duncan, I never know when to take you serious! 🎭

[Hamba Tuhan]

14 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Pretty darn sad right?

Not my place to judge. I only know my personal hunger for the being in the House of the Lord.

[Gray]

3 hours ago, rockpond said:

Bill Reel released a new episode of his Mormon Discussions Podcast yesterday (10/1/18) that gives six predictions for general conference. 

1. Lowering the age for sisters to serve missions (to 18) and allowing them for serve for 24 months. 

2. The two-hour block. 

3.  Removing the one year waiting period between a civil marriage and a temple sealing. 

4.  Changing the “requirement” of wearing garments to only when you are doing temple work. 

5.  Creation of a short endowment ceremony, under an hour, that cuts out the video segments. 

6.  Long term (5 year) closure of the Salt Lake Temple for major renovations.  Reel specifically put forward this one as a test of his source.  He said that the source that gave him the above items said that the SL Temple closure was discussed in the same meetings as the other items above. 

He isn’t necessarily saying that all six items will happen in this conference, just that they are all being discussed among the Brethren.  

#4 sounds like the least plausible by far. About as implausible as them announcing that beer will now be served at linger longers.

[Duncan]

2 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Duncan, I never know when to take you serious! 🎭

🤓

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, rockpond said:

With respect to #4, Reel cites a story from Devry Anderson’s book on development of LDS temple worship that this garment idea came close to being implemented by Joseph F Smith. 

The reason for that is gone. We invented air conditioning.

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

My question to many on this board, is what would you do if these things happen, could you still stay fully believing? Actually, let me add one more, that is going around the rumour mill. The fact that the church is softening towards believing the BoM isn't historical. Now, if anyone dare, what would this do to your belief in the LDS church?

I would and I expect seismic changes in the practices of the church over the next decade or so with many beloved cultural practices dying off. I just don't think Bill's predictions are what it will involve.

[JLHPROF]

3 hours ago, rockpond said:

 With respect to #4, Reel cites a story from Devry Anderson’s book on development of LDS temple worship that this garment idea came close to being implemented by Joseph F Smith. 

CFR.  Joseph F. Smith never would have considered this considering his actions concerning the garment during his administration.  I think he's citing Anderson wrong.  Took a quick thumb through it and sae no such thing.  Just numerous Smith quotes to the contrary.

[rockpond]

1 hour ago, rongo said:

I'll tell you a rumor I could really get behind: replacing Come Follow Me with . . . the old manuals. Expose kids to the really good stories and analogies of yesteryear.  We've done it now for, what, six years or so? I don't think that the youth who have cycled through have shown awesomeness at "higher bar" lessons, thinking, spiritual maturity, etc. (I think the results of this long pilot speak for themselves). Let's try the manuals again! 

(I realize that we're still in the fad phase of "counseling with councils: classroom edition!", and that this won't change anytime soon. But it's a rumor that would increase my heart rate, unlike rumors about garments or gutting the endowment).  

 

I’ve been teaching youth for a long time but I’ve never been one to follow the manuals too closely.  I generally study the scripture references they provide and then use them in my own way to teach the assigned principle.  So, I like the Come Follow Me manuals because they tend to provide more scripture references and associated conference addresses.  I like being able to review all of those before deciding how to approach the assigned principle.  (And since I’ve spent the last 6+ years teaching Teachers Quorum and then Priests Quorum, I do prefer to push them to think a little deeper and take a more in depth look at the principles of the gospel). 

[rockpond]

7 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

CFR.  Joseph F. Smith never would have considered this considering his actions concerning the garment during his administration.  I think he's citing Anderson wrong.  Took a quick thumb through it and sae no such thing.  Just numerous Smith quotes to the contrary.

I provided the reference:  Reel made the claim in his Oct 1 podcast and he cited Devry Anderson’s book.

I’m not making a claim about the validity of the Joseph F Smith story, I’m only sharing what Reel has said on his podcast. 

[ksfisher]

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I hear ya!! But maybe you could get in baptisms, washing and annointing, endowment, sealings as well? 

Sometimes the journey is more important than the destination.