The Name of the Church

[Scott Lloyd]

Amid the uproar over the changes announced by President Nelson, Daniel C. Peterson has weighed in on his blog and announced his and his colleagues' intention to support the Church president in this.
 

Quote

 

Within the past day or two, President Russell M. Nelson, whom believing members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints regard as a prophet, seer, and revelator, has issued an official statement calling upon members of the Church to reemphasize its actual, official name and to move away from the nickname Mormon (which was, after all, originally given to us by hostile outsiders):

 

https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/name-of-the-church

 

This will require adjustments in many areas, including some with which I’m involved (e.g., Mormon Scholars Testify and Interpreter: A Journal of Mormon Scripture and perhaps FairMormon).  It will affect internet links and have a ripple effect that we cannot yet quite foresee.

 

My associates and I support President Nelson, however, and we don’t want to be, or even to seem to be, out of harmony with the Church and the Prophet.  Moreover, we see the point of such adjustments in making the commitment of the Church to the Savior Jesus Christ as explicit and unmistakable as we can.  We understand that outsiders are unlikely to comply with President Nelson’s request, but we intend to do so as soon as we are able and to the (considerable) extent that we can.

 

 

[Scott Lloyd]

15 minutes ago, JulieM said:

Weren’t we called “Brighamites” at one time?

Maybe that’s better than the word Mormon, but I love saying that “I’m a Mormon”....it makes me proud.  

I hate it becoming a dirty, “forbidden” term that describes a big part of who I am.

"Dirty"? Who's hyperventilating now?

Remember that the word is still approved in some contexts.

Quote

"Mormon" is correctly used in proper names such as the Book of Mormon or when used as an adjective in such historical expressions as "Mormon Trail."

 

[Scott Lloyd]

13 minutes ago, pogi said:

I am aware of the history.  I am sure President Benson was aware too as he sung his overtly sentimental expression in song of his pride in being a “Mormon boy”.  Perhaps I shouldn’t feel sentimental at my identity as a “Christian” for the same reasons.  But alas, I do.

President Benson, like everybody else, was a product of his time.

But, were he here today, I'm not convinced he would countenance nostalgia over use of the term being used as an occasion to resist divinely inspired direction from the current prophet, seer and revelator.

[JulieM]

4 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

"Dirty"? Who's hyperventilating now?

Remember that the word is still approved in some contexts.

 

Wow.  Exaggerate much?  Hyperventilating? 😂

You’re the one using the word “forbidden” in reference to using the word “Mormon”.

 

[pogi]

6 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Amid the uproar over the changes announced by President Nelson...

I hope that you are not considering my comments an uproar.  If we want to help President Nelson succeed, then we have to be honest about how members might emotionally react to this, and how non-members might react.  This cannot work if we are not realistic about the mountainous challenges in such an endeavor.  This cannot work without empathy and understanding of our “Mormon” heritage and history. This will not work if members feel shamed into submission, or at least guilty or wrong for feeling sentimental about the term “Mormon”.  As I have said, I will make a diligent effort, but let’s be honest with ourselves or none of this will work.

[Scott Lloyd]

10 minutes ago, JulieM said:

Wow.  Exaggerate much?  Hyperventilating? 😂

You’re the one using the word “forbidden” in reference to using the word “Mormon”.

 

I never said "Mormon" was a dirty word. That was your own ham-handed caricature.

[pogi]

10 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

President Benson, like everybody else, was a product of his time.

But, were he here today, I'm not convinced he would countenance nostalgia over use of the term being used as an occasion to resist divinely inspired direction from the current prophet, seer and revelator.

Am I resisting?  I feel like my path of honesty is the most helpful way forward in making this work.  There is nothing wrong with feeling and expressing sentiment and loss while striving to navigate change.  It’s pretty normal actually.  

[Scott Lloyd]

9 minutes ago, pogi said:

I hope that you are not considering my comments an uproar. 

No. I wasn't even thinking of you when I composed that post.

I had in mind the relatively intense publicity this event has gotten far beyond just this message board.

 

Edited August 18, 2018 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

1 minute ago, pogi said:

Am I resisting?  I feel like my path of honesty is the most helpful way forward in making this work.  There is nothing wrong with feeling and expressing sentiment and loss while striving to navigate change.  It’s pretty normal actually.  

Point taken.

 

[JulieM]

4 minutes ago, pogi said:

Am I resisting?  I feel like my path of honesty is the most helpful way forward in making this work.  There is nothing wrong with feeling and expressing sentiment and loss while striving to navigate change.  It’s pretty normal actually.  

You’re expressing what many feel.  I’ve also stated that I’ll try my best to do this, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t emotions and feelings involved.

Edited August 18, 2018 by JulieM

[ALarson]

6 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

Perhaps instead of waiting to see if non members follow the Prophets counsel, we could follows it

My post was about the Mormon Tabernacle Choir.  Where did I say anything about not following the Prophet?  

Edited August 18, 2018 by ALarson

[ALarson]

4 hours ago, Nevo said:

In the meantime, I propose we at least update the site logo.

[canard78]

On 8/17/2018 at 12:44 AM, Scott Lloyd said:

As you pray, bear in mind President Nelson’s phrasing “the Lord has impressed upon my mind.”

So are you of the view, Scott, that prophets have never “spoken as a man” when they have used phrases like this in their declarations or teachings?

Is it possible that a church prophet has spoken as a man when they thought that their personal feelings were actually things that the Lord had impressed upon their minds?

(Hi, by the way, long time no speak).

[canard78]

23 hours ago, Rajah Manchou said:

Mormon church sues leader of B.C. polygamous sect for trademark infringement

Using hard evidence to counter?

Now that just seems unfair! Did Scott reply, out of interest? I’m not sure I can go through all the pages to check. 

My background is marketing. I can understand an organisation trying to defend their trademark and operating name. Clearly, if anyone else tried to use the name, they would take defensive action. 

Their problem is that, as trademarks go, TCOJCOLDS is a pretty poor one. It’s far too long and has never been used consistently enough to establish any real equity. 

If you say “Mormonism” it has awareness and clear associations. The full name is almost a non-entity in the wider population. It’s so cumbersome that it’s unlikely to change. 

President Nelson might be a great heart surgeon but, based on this decision, he’s showing himself to be a horrible marketeer. 

I find it highly unlikely that the church’s PR & branding advisers were in favour of this decision. 

[Stargazer]

14 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

I've mentioned before that I spent some time in the Czech Republic and speak Czech. I looked up the official name of your church (I'm afraid to say LDS church now, ha) in Czech and there's a translation problem going on there that would make using "Mormon" perhaps a better fit. In Czech, the name is (without accent marks, forgive me): Cirkev Jezise Krista Svatych Poslednich Dnu. That literally means: The Church of Jesus Christ of the Holy Last Days. The problem is that there is no difference between latter and last in Czech. Also, in Czech, there is no noun for "saint." Only an adjective is used and it is the same as holy. So if someone introduced themselves as belonging to the LDS church using the full name, all non-Mormon Czechs would hear Church of Jesus Christ of the Holy Last Days, which definitely has a weird ring to it.

Note: I checked google translate and people have definitely suggested edits to the translator to make it pop up the official name of your church (including "Latter-day"), but that's not how a Czech would hear it. I can't think of anyway to translate the name to make it sound/mean what it does in English. It just doesn't work in the Czech language.

German also has no word for "latter", so the Church goes by Church of Jesus Christ of the Saints of the Last Days (Kirche Jesu Christi der Heiligen der Letzten Tage).

[Stargazer]

14 hours ago, RevTestament said:

My experience on Christian and Religion forums has been frustrating. If they allow LDS to post in a particular forum, this can change if that LDS poster begins to draw attention. They seem to like to feel that they are doing us some kind of religious favor by allowing us on their site which may lead to our conversion or at least allow them to show how "wrong" we are. If that doesn't happen, it seems imho that they then become defensive and clamp down. They may force LDS out of a particular forum by claiming we are not Christian. I have experienced this first-hand. Even if the owner is more liberal, individual moderators often are not. I have observed a certain prejudice that other Christians do not want "Mormons" posting on forums they frequent - so yeah, the prejudice is deep.

And it can be VERY deep. There used to be a poster here (forget who) that openly stated that if he were ever at a public meeting (like a PTA meeting) that might be opened with prayer, and someone whom he knew was a Mormon was announced to be speaking the prayer, he would leave temporarily until the prayer were done, then come back in.  And especially so if one of his children were present.  Apparently, prayers by members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints can be harmful to your health!  Who knew?  Or perhaps he was afraid of being possessed if he heard such a prayer.  Very sensitive ears, I must say.

[Kenngo1969]

• "Boy, President Nelson has stepped in it now!  This is going to be a public relations nightmare for the Mormon Church!"
• "President Nelson is a doddering old fool who's teetering on the very edge of senility!"
• "I'm too attached to the moniker, 'Mormon,' and it's too attached to me, for me to change it now!"
• "'Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints'?  Why, that's simply too much of a mouthful!"
• "There's so much wrong in the world, and this is what our 'prophets, seers, and revelators' [capitalization, or lack thereof, intentional] are fixated upon?  This is the 'revelation' they get?"

And on an on, ad infinitum, ad nauseam.

And this is all coming from members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.  Others' mileage varies, I'm sure, but sometimes, I do wonder if we members of the Church of Jesus Christ aren't our own worst enemies.     But maybe that's just me.  

Edited August 18, 2018 by Kenngo1969

[sjdawg]

On 8/16/2018 at 10:41 PM, Sky said:

New development coming from President Russell M. Nelson and the Mormon Newsroom regarding the name of the Church, including the following:  

• When referring to the Church, The full name of the Church, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, is encouraged and preferred.  

• Please refer to members of the Church as Latter-day Saints.  Please avoid the term “Mormons.”

• Please avoid the term “Mormonism.”  It is inaccurate.  When a shortened version is needed, please use “The Church of Jesus Christ” or the “restored Church of Jesus Christ”.  Please avoid the terms “The Mormon Church” and “The LDS Church.”

It will be interesting to see how this goes.  If I recall correctly, it has been tried before, but didn’t last very long.  The terms “Mormons” and “Mormonism” are deeply ingrained and hard to get rid of.  It is part of our identity.  

See: 

https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mormonnewsroom.org%2Farticle%2Fname-of-the-church&h=AT3psjcZ7YewKU-Kd0tUF4HZH0V7YLlToxHxgwtImQp2OUYYUQKplEQezQg-fINiBacO4l8gKUfvtnwFl-dM-_aHm-ThDc2bMZpxHhkDjWJTVQcVgINL30Nv-8YOH_XbD3JdRK4UmNY&s=1

I find it amazing that with all the challenges facing the world this is what God prioritizes.

[sjdawg]

Was the "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" the original name of the Church created by Joseph Smitth or did the lord impress upon Joseph's mind to change the name later?

 

[Rajah Manchou]

51 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

• And this is all coming from members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.  Others' mileage varies, I'm sure, but sometimes, I do wonder if we members of the Church of Jesus Christ aren't our own worst enemies. 

 

Did you have to refer to the style guide once, or twice, to assure your comment was in full compliance?

[blueglass]

6 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

President Benson, like everybody else, was a product of his time.

But, were he here today, I'm not convinced he would countenance nostalgia over use of the term being used as an occasion to resist divinely inspired direction from the current prophet, seer and revelator.

Or president Monson's daughter - a product of her time.  "I'm a Mormon. Are you?"  Sister Dibb was impressed by this young woman's bold declaration and pondered what her own T-shirt would figuratively say.  She concluded it would read.

"I'm a Mormon.  I know it.  I live it. I love it"

https://www.lds.org/church/news/sister-dibb-im-a-mormon-i-know-it-i-live-it-i-love-it?lang=eng

[Rajah Manchou]

3 hours ago, canard78 said:

Using hard evidence to counter?

Now that just seems unfair! Did Scott reply, out of interest? I’m not sure I can go through all the pages to check. 

 

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (hyphen) had their registration of the name rejected because the polygamous group was already legally registered as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (no hyphen).

So really the polygamous group was infringing on the trademark of the Strangites who were already registered as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (no hyphen).

To defend against violation of the hyphenated name by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints Inc., The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints had to claim that the non-hyphenated version, which is actually the trademark of the official Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Strangites), was too similar to the hyphenated version.  🤔 

[Avatar4321]

1 hour ago, sjdawg said:

I find it amazing that with all the challenges facing the world this is what God prioritizes.

Why would it be odd that God prioritizes making sure we remember that we are to be called after Him. Remembering we truly are motivates individuals to be the best they can be.

if we don't prioritize this aspect of our relationship with the Lord, how do we expect to get the guidance to deal with other issues.

Through small and simple things

[Avatar4321]

1 hour ago, sjdawg said:

Was the "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" the original name of the Church created by Joseph Smitth or did the lord impress upon Joseph's mind to change the name later?

 

It's the name the Lord gave us when the Church turned 8

[bluebell]

4 hours ago, sjdawg said:

I find it amazing that with all the challenges facing the world this is what God prioritizes.

God giving instructions on this issue does not mean He had to ignore others. He can help us focus more on Christ and also work on other challenges at the same time. 

It’s not an either/or proposition. 

Edited August 18, 2018 by bluebell