Update on McKenna Denson Lawsuit (Hearing Schedule)

[Bernard Gui]

22 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Sounds a little like the Streisand Effect, actually!

Now I’m going to have “People, people who need people” running through my head all day. Thanks a lot.

[jkwilliams]

1 minute ago, Scott Lloyd said:

What a horrible experience to start one’s mission with, one that might have indelibly scarred some people. It’s to your credit you came through it and are the wise and level-headed man you are today. 

I used to work with an LDS guy whose mission was so traumatic that he has refused to talk about it. When he came home from his mission, he agreed to do a homecoming talk on the condition that he talk about a gospel topic without mentioning his mission. I asked him what was so traumatic, and even after 25 years, he said, "I really don't want to talk about it." I have no idea why it was so bad for him.

[Bernard Gui]

16 minutes ago, strappinglad said:

I spent 3 months at the LTM when it was still on the BYU campus in the mid sixties. A few weeks into it I contracted Mono ( the kissing disease ) and got ribbed for that. I didn't help that I had a hives - like reaction at the same time. I don't recall having any interaction with any leader. My only lasting memory of weirdness was in Spanish class when the instructor suggested we control our nighttime dreams so as to avoid ' nocturnal stuff ' . I figured good luck with that . lol.

I was there September-December 1966. 

[bluebell]

6 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

No off-roading. I’m trying to keep our new SUV as pristine as possible over the next several years. 

Are there some interesting places accessible on foot (hopefully without lucrative tour fees)?

Mesa Verde is pretty cheap as you only have to pay the entrance fee and then you have access to everything in the park/area/whatever they call it.  Hike to all the cliff dwellings if you can.   Canyonlands is really big so it depends on which part you are going to.  There are different entrances that are almost 100 miles a part in some cases.  If you go the needles district make sure you stop by Newspaper Rock.  It's a well known petroglyph site right on the side of the road.  I haven't done much hiking in Canyonlands or Arches so I'm not a lot of help there but I've been on Park Avenue in Arches and it was amazing. It's really short and if you start at the first trail head that you come to and walk to the second, it's downhill and shady (if you go in the morning) the whole way.  To do that though you have to have two vehicles in your group so that you can park one at the second trail head. Otherwise you'll have to walk the round trip.  Again, it's not a long hike.

I've never hiked to Delicate Arch but I've gone to the trail head. If you can, get there super early.  I've only ever gone in the spring so this could be different with the heat of summer (you wouldn't want to hike it in the heat of midday anyway though) but that was the most popular hike and the trail head parking area filled up really fast.

Actually, just plan on getting to arches really early anyway if you can. Sometimes the line just to get into the park backs up for miles onto the highway.

Both Canyonlands and Arches are national parks so you'll have to pay national park fees to get in (I do not remember if Mesa is a National Park or some other designation.  It could be).  We always buy the national park pass for $80 dollars, which gives you access to any and all national parks for one year. It does not cover state parks.  If you plan on going to many national parks, it's a good deal.

[Bernard Gui]

49 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

No off-roading. I’m trying to keep our new SUV as pristine as possible over the next several years. 

Are there some interesting places accessible on foot (hopefully without lucrative tour fees)?

Capitol Reef is probably not on your route, but is is spectacular. Have you been to Goblin Valley? If not, don’t miss it. Maybe take adifferent route on the way back to see it? Fry Canyon is cool. Castle Valley near Moab is a good side trip....lots of movies filmed there. Hovenweep is interesting. Do as much around Canyonlands as possible. Will you be taking highway 6/191? The SUV is going to get some dings eventually, so why not break it in going full gonzo in Canyonlands! I drove my old IH Scout over Elephant Hill with BYU music professors David Dalton, Glen Williams, Paul Pollei, and Lawrence Sardoni on a trip my senior year at BYU. We did tons of off-road stuff. Unforgettable trip.

Edited June 22, 2018 by Bernard Gui

[smac97]

5 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Capitol Reef is probably not on your route, but is is spectacular. Have you been to Goblin Valley? If not, don’t miss it. Maybe take adifferent route on the way back to see it? Fry Canyon is cool. Castle Valley near Moab is a good side trip....lots of movies filmed there. Hovenweep is interesting. Do as much around Canyonlands as possible. Will you be taking highway 6/191? The SUV is going to get some dings eventually, so why not break it in going full gonzo in Canyonlands. I drove my old IH Scout over Elephant Hill with BYU music professors David Dalton, Paul Pollei, and Lawrence Sardoni on a trip my senior year at BYU. We did tons of off-road stuff. Unforgettable trip.

The youth in my ward will be heading to Capitol Reef in a few hours.  I envy them.

Thanks,

-Smac

[jkwilliams]

9 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Capitol Reef is probably not on your route, but is is spectacular. Have you been to Goblin Valley? If not, don’t miss it. Maybe take adifferent route on the way back to see it? Fry Canyon is cool. Castle Valley near Moab is a good side trip....lots of movies filmed there. Hovenweep is interesting. Do as much around Canyonlands as possible. Will you be taking highway 6/191? The SUV is going to get some dings eventually, so why not break it in going full gonzo in Canyonlands! I drove my old IH Scout over Elephant Hill with BYU music professors David Dalton, Paul Pollei, and Lawrence Sardoni on a trip my senior year at BYU. We did tons of off-road stuff. Unforgettable trip.

Capitol Reef is one of my favorite places and the site of one of the few definite miracles in my life.

[bluebell]

41 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Capitol Reef is probably not on your route, but is is spectacular. Have you been to Goblin Valley? If not, don’t miss it. Maybe take adifferent route on the way back to see it? Fry Canyon is cool. Castle Valley near Moab is a good side trip....lots of movies filmed there. Hovenweep is interesting. Do as much around Canyonlands as possible. Will you be taking highway 6/191? The SUV is going to get some dings eventually, so why not break it in going full gonzo in Canyonlands! I drove my old IH Scout over Elephant Hill with BYU music professors David Dalton, Glen Williams, Paul Pollei, and Lawrence Sardoni on a trip my senior year at BYU. We did tons of off-road stuff. Unforgettable trip.

I second Hovenweep. I loved that place.  @Scott Lloyd, there is a short trail that will take you to Painted Hand house that's not too far from Hovenweep.  You drive on a dirt road, then take another dirt road (well marked) a short distance to a small parking area, then you have to walk down into the canyon. It's awesome though and you can go right up to it.  

[jkwilliams]

7 hours ago, Stargazer said:

And I'm going to take a second here to endorse John's book. I read it and greatly enjoyed it!

Thank you. What was interesting to me was that I filled two journals during my mission, the first running out of space slightly more than halfway through my mission. When I wrote the blog entries that would eventually become my book, I had the first journal, but I couldn't find the second one, so I had to write the second half of the story from memory. It wasn't until months later, when I had already edited the blog entries into book form, that I found the second journal. I was able to fill in a few details and a couple of incidents I had forgotten about, but I found my memory was pretty spot on. That's what I mean about having a good memory for insignificant details.

[Duncan]

2 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

Thank you. What was interesting to me was that I filled two journals during my mission, the first running out of space slightly more than halfway through my mission. When I wrote the blog entries that would eventually become my book, I had the first journal, but I couldn't find the second one, so I had to write the second half of the story from memory. It wasn't until months later, when I had already edited the blog entries into book form, that I found the second journal. I was able to fill in a few details and a couple of incidents I had forgotten about, but I found my memory was pretty spot on. That's what I mean about having a good memory for insignificant details.

IIRC I knew some others who served in Bolivia, in the early mid 1980's with President Hammond. They met on their missions there, last name of Perkins. Great couple, he was in the bishopric of a ward I was in

[jkwilliams]

1 minute ago, Duncan said:

IIRC I knew some others who served in Bolivia, in the early mid 1980's with President Hammond. They met on their missions there, last name of Perkins. Great couple, he was in the bishopric of a ward I was in

There was an Elder Perkins in the mission. I think his name was Randy, though I could be mistaken. Missionaries generally weren't on a first-name basis.

[Duncan]

1 minute ago, jkwilliams said:

There was an Elder Perkins in the mission. I think his name was Randy, though I could be mistaken. Missionaries generally weren't on a first-name basis.

true, although we were teaching this guy and his Dad hated us and so we went in our civvies and "Ryan and Cameron" showed up, no tag, no tie, nothing and the dad let us in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I still can't believe it!! we taught the guy and baptized him later one but hahahhaha!

[jkwilliams]

4 minutes ago, Duncan said:

true, although we were teaching this guy and his Dad hated us and so we went in our civvies and "Ryan and Cameron" showed up, no tag, no tie, nothing and the dad let us in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I still can't believe it!! we taught the guy and baptized him later one but hahahhaha!

I like that. As I recall in my book, I was rarely called Elder Williams on my mission. I was always "Elder Johnny-cat." To this day, friends from my mission call me by that name. 

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

Now I’m going to have “People, people who need people” running through my head all day. Thanks a lot.

Thanks for the ear worm! Now I've got it too.

 

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

Mesa Verde is pretty cheap as you only have to pay the entrance fee and then you have access to everything in the park/area/whatever they call it.  Hike to all the cliff dwellings if you can.   Canyonlands is really big so it depends on which part you are going to.  There are different entrances that are almost 100 miles a part in some cases.  If you go the needles district make sure you stop by Newspaper Rock.  It's a well known petroglyph site right on the side of the road.  I haven't done much hiking in Canyonlands or Arches so I'm not a lot of help there but I've been on Park Avenue in Arches and it was amazing. It's really short and if you start at the first trail head that you come to and walk to the second, it's downhill and shady (if you go in the morning) the whole way.  To do that though you have to have two vehicles in your group so that you can park one at the second trail head. Otherwise you'll have to walk the round trip.  Again, it's not a long hike.

I've never hiked to Delicate Arch but I've gone to the trail head. If you can, get there super early.  I've only ever gone in the spring so this could be different with the heat of summer (you wouldn't want to hike it in the heat of midday anyway though) but that was the most popular hike and the trail head parking area filled up really fast.

Actually, just plan on getting to arches really early anyway if you can. Sometimes the line just to get into the park backs up for miles onto the highway.

Both Canyonlands and Arches are national parks so you'll have to pay national park fees to get in (I do not remember if Mesa is a National Park or some other designation.  It could be).  We always buy the national park pass for $80 dollars, which gives you access to any and all national parks for one year. It does not cover state parks.  If you plan on going to many national parks, it's a good deal.

Lots of good advice here.

We're leaving in the middle of the night so as to be at Delicate Arch by sunrise. We'll spend the day at Arches. It's on the way to our campground, which is south of Monticello. We'll break camp on the morning of the third day and spend the day exploring Canyonlands before heading home at dusk.

You mentioned the entrance fee at Mesa Verde. I just bought a lifetime senior national parks pass. That should get us in for free, no?

 

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

Capitol Reef is probably not on your route, but is is spectacular. Have you been to Goblin Valley? If not, don’t miss it. Maybe take adifferent route on the way back to see it? Fry Canyon is cool. Castle Valley near Moab is a good side trip....lots of movies filmed there. Hovenweep is interesting. Do as much around Canyonlands as possible. Will you be taking highway 6/191? The SUV is going to get some dings eventually, so why not break it in going full gonzo in Canyonlands! I drove my old IH Scout over Elephant Hill with BYU music professors David Dalton, Glen Williams, Paul Pollei, and Lawrence Sardoni on a trip my senior year at BYU. We did tons of off-road stuff. Unforgettable trip.

 

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

The youth in my ward will be heading to Capitol Reef in a few hours.  I envy them.

Thanks,

-Smac

 

1 hour ago, jkwilliams said:

Capitol Reef is one of my favorite places and the site of one of the few definite miracles in my life.

Capitol Reef is my mom's old stomping ground. She's a Wayne County girl.

But a lot of this stuff will have to wait for a future trip. Three national parks in three days is a lot to bite off as it is.

 

[jkwilliams]

2 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Capitol Reef is my mom's old stomping ground. She's a Wayne County girl.

But a lot of this stuff will have to wait for a future trip. Three national parks in three days is a lot to bite off as it is.

I don't have time for that kind of vacation this year. I'm going to Idaho today to meet the new baby, then it's off to Houston in September for the next baby, and then to Virginia in October for my daughter's wedding. Next year, maybe.

[bluebell]

38 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

You mentioned the entrance fee at Mesa Verde. I just bought a lifetime senior national parks pass. That should get us in for free, no?

I think so.  As long as it's a federal park.

[Hamba Tuhan]

6 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

What a horrible experience to start one’s mission with, one that might have indelibly scarred some people. It’s to your credit you came through it and are the wise and level-headed man you are today. 

 

5 hours ago, jkwilliams said:

I used to work with an LDS guy whose mission was so traumatic that he has refused to talk about it.

Based on my own experiences, I tend to trust people like John's co-worker. If, for example, my MTC branch president had instead been my mission president, what would that have looked like???

As I have had occasion to say many times, including again recently, when we get things right in the Church, nothing can stop us. When we get things wrong, however, the best is that nothing happens. The worst is that all kinds of people are harmed.

[USU78]

8 hours ago, Stargazer said:

Being a bit older than you MTC grads, I got to attend the Language Training Mission at BYU, in the spring of 1972.  In Amanda Knight Hall, in fact, where the German, Dutch and Afrikaans missionaries learned their languages and the famous 6 discussions.  

The LTM was wonderful!  I had some of my best spiritual experiences there, and learned so much, not only about how to speak German, but how to be a spiritual man.  Our instructors were without exception exceptional Latter-day Saints, and I remember all of them fondly.  My companion there was a bit of a jock, and I got the impression he thought I was some kind of nerd, but he was right -- I was a nerd!  I have heard tales about how the missionary experience in Provo got much degraded when the MTC replaced the LTM.

So sad!

Remember Marcus von Wellnitz?

[Stargazer]

9 hours ago, USU78 said:

Remember Marcus von Wellnitz?

Sorry, no!  Was he the head of Amanda Knight Hall?

The only non-instructor name that comes to mind was a guy name Wohlferts.  Or Wolferts. Not sure of the spelling.  He was a welder by profession, I think.

[USU78]

1 hour ago, Stargazer said:

Sorry, no!  Was he the head of Amanda Knight Hall?

The only non-instructor name that comes to mind was a guy name Wohlferts.  Or Wolferts. Not sure of the spelling.  He was a welder by profession, I think.

I remember the name but cannot hang a face on it

[Stargazer]

On 6/23/2018 at 1:23 PM, USU78 said:

I remember the name but cannot hang a face on it

It just occurred to me that I had a few photos of instructors from the German LTM. Do any of these look familiar?

 

[Rain]

I loved the MTC for the most part. Ed Pineda was MTC president and I remember both he and his wife, Patricia, from those days. I don't remember my branch president at all. 

The only trouble I had was with my companion. In those days, as a type 1 diabetic, I had to eat breakfast. She refused to go most days. I got permission to go without her. 

 

[USU78]

1 hour ago, Stargazer said:

It just occurred to me that I had a few photos of instructors from the German LTM. Do any of these look familiar?

 

I knew von Sulli, but not the other two.