Update on McKenna Denson Lawsuit (Hearing Schedule)

[bluebell]

3 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

I have vivid memories of Pres. Bishop telling that story very dramatically at least two or three times. What I remember is that he had oversized glasses and very tall hair. 

That's impressive.  I have no idea who the MTC president was when I was there and I would never be able to recognize him.  I dimly recall my branch president and his wife but those are the only leaders I remember (other than my teachers).

[jkwilliams]

Just now, bluebell said:

That's impressive.  I have no idea who the MTC president was when I was there and I would never be able to recognize him.  I dimly recall my branch president and his wife but those are the only leaders I remember (other than my teachers).

I have a great memory for insignificant details, which helped in writing my book. 

[Duncan]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

That's impressive.  I have no idea who the MTC president was when I was there and I would never be able to recognize him.  I dimly recall my branch president and his wife but those are the only leaders I remember (other than my teachers).

 Rex Williams was the President, I remember because I had never heard the name Rex before. One of his counselours was a Merrill Frost. I remember that because he and his wife both spoke and they took pot shots at each other and they were  savage to each other!!!!!!!!! We had Harvey Black and Susan Easton Black as my Branch President and wife, I had heard her at a BYU education week and was blown away she was at the MTC, I never really talked to her much, I was too nervous!!!!!!!!! We had a Norman Faldmo and Parley Newman as counselours. I remember Bro. Newman because he had some connection, IIRC to WW2 and my comp and I got into this big debate about what happened first, the bombings of Hiroshima or Nagasaki, he said Nagasaki and I said Hiroshima and Bro. Newman confirmed that I was correct, and I was, to my companion, how do you not know this?????!!!!!!!!!! this is your own history man!!! how do I as a Canadian know this and you don't? gee willy wonkers! and Norman Faldmo, I figured how many people do you meet in life named Norman Faldmo? all were fantastic branch presidency members!!!!

Edited June 22, 2018 by Duncan

[jkwilliams]

7 minutes ago, Duncan said:

 Rex Williams was the President, I remember because I had never heard the name Rex before. One of his counselours was a Merrill Frost. I remember that because he and his wife both spoke and they took pot shots at each other and they were  savage to each other!!!!!!!!! We had Harvey Black and Susan Easton Black as my Branch President and wife, I had heard her at a BYU education week and was blown away she was at the MTC, I never really talked to her much, I was too nervous!!!!!!!!! We had a Norman Faldmo and Parley Newman as counselours. I remember Bro. Newman because he had some connection, IIRC to WW2 and my comp and I got into this big debate about what happened first, the bombings of Hiroshima or Nagasaki, he said Nagasaki and I said Hiroshima and Bro. Newman confirmed that I was correct, and I was, to my companion, how do you not know this?????!!!!!!!!!! this is your own history man!!! how do I as a Canadian know this and you don't? gee willy wonkers! and Norman Faldmo, I figured how many people do you meet in life named Norman Faldmo? all were fantastic branch presidency members!!!!

Sounds like you have the same kind of memory that I do. My problem is that I remember the trivial but not the important stuff. 

[Exiled]

17 minutes ago, Duncan said:

 Rex Williams was the President, I remember because I had never heard the name Rex before. One of his counselours was a Merrill Frost. I remember that because he and his wife both spoke and they took pot shots at each other and they were  savage to each other!!!!!!!!! We had Harvey Black and Susan Easton Black as my Branch President and wife, I had heard her at a BYU education week and was blown away she was at the MTC, I never really talked to her much, I was too nervous!!!!!!!!! We had a Norman Faldmo and Parley Newman as counselours. I remember Bro. Newman because he had some connection, IIRC to WW2 and my comp and I got into this big debate about what happened first, the bombings of Hiroshima or Nagasaki, he said Nagasaki and I said Hiroshima and Bro. Newman confirmed that I was correct, and I was, to my companion, how do you not know this?????!!!!!!!!!! this is your own history man!!! how do I as a Canadian know this and you don't? gee willy wonkers! and Norman Faldmo, I figured how many people do you meet in life named Norman Faldmo? all were fantastic branch presidency members!!!!

Rex was a good man. He was my neighbor growing up in slc and my missionary prep teacher. He just passed away in January. I didn't know he was a president of the MTC also. I know he was on the missionary committee for years. Rumor was that he would have been made a G.A. but for his apostate brother UofU prof J.D. Williams.

[Duncan]

7 minutes ago, Exiled said:

Rex was a good man. He was my neighbor growing up in slc and my missionary prep teacher. He just passed away in January. I didn't know he was a president of the MTC also. I know he was on the missionary committee for years. Rumor was that he would have been made a G.A. but for his apostate brother UofU prof J.D. Williams.

oh hahahhahahaha! no, I never knew that!!!!!!!!!  knew he was friends with Elder Ballard of the 12. I heard him speak of times at the MTC, he was good! I am sorry to hear he passed away! I was under the impression he was a Mission President in Florida or something

[Exiled]

Just now, Duncan said:

oh hahahhahahaha! no, I never knew that!!!!!!!!!  knew he was friends with Elder Ballard of the 12. I heard him speak of times at the MTC, he was good! I am sorry to hear he passed away! I was under the impression he was a Mission President in Florida or something

He was a mission pres in florida when I was really little. I vaguely remember their homecoming. Anyway, he was friends with a lot of G.A.s. Also, I think either he or his wife Rosemary was the grandchild of James E. Talmage.  In any event he was one of my favorites in the ward growing up.

[Duncan]

28 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

Sounds like you have the same kind of memory that I do. My problem is that I remember the trivial but not the important stuff. 

oh yes!!!!

[Duncan]

4 minutes ago, Exiled said:

He was a mission pres in florida when I was really little. I vaguely remember their homecoming. Anyway, he was friends with a lot of G.A.s. Also, I think either he or his wife Rosemary was the grandchild of James E. Talmage.  In any event he was one of my favorites in the ward growing up.

wow! that's cool!!!! I just checked family search, and you are correct his wife is a daughter of Elder Talmage's daughter Elsie

Edited June 22, 2018 by Duncan

[smac97]

2 hours ago, Duncan said:

correct me if I am wrong and maybe this is Canadian law but if you bring some lawsuit to someone and you lose you pay for the other person's lawyer or at least their legal fees?

We Yanks follow the "American Rule" when it comes to attorney fees.  That rule is that each side pays their own fees, unless there is a contract or statute that says otherwise (in which case it's usually the losing party pays).  

Thanks,

-Smac

[Exiled]

1 minute ago, Duncan said:

wow! that's cool!!!!

I just read his obit and I forgot that he had been a missionary when they went without purse or script (at least in his mission). I remember he said he went through a lot of hungry nights on his mission when he was teaching our missionary prep class. The way he told the story though had all of us laughing.

[jkwilliams]

6 minutes ago, Exiled said:

I just read his obit and I forgot that he had been a missionary when they went without purse or script (at least in his mission). I remember he said he went through a lot of hungry nights on his mission when he was teaching our missionary prep class. The way he told the story though had all of us laughing.

I have a friend who was a traveling AP in Argentina. He had to pay his travel expenses without reimbursement, so he and his companion often went without food. It wasn’t until he collapsed in the street from hunger that he finally asked to be released as AP. He was so malnourished that he nearly had to be hospitalized on his return home. His identical twin brother outweighed him by 40 lbs. when they gave their joint homecoming reports. 

Edited June 22, 2018 by jkwilliams

[Bernard Gui]

5 hours ago, Calm said:

His son described him as having a more than usual concern with thoughts of purity (implying all his talk of being a sex addict was just an overwrought response to what were typical "male" thoughts).  While I think it was much, much more than that, I think he also had this obsession and probably talked about it a lot because he assumed others had the same.  Iow, he saw his life as surrounded by demons, so everyone else was as well.

There is a certain arrogance to framing life that way, pitching one into heroism but also potentially paranoia.

Is there any forgiveness for him?

[Exiled]

5 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

I have a friend who was a traveling AP in Argentina. He had to pay his travel expenses without reimbursement, so he and his companion often went without food. It wasn’t until he collapsed in the street from hunger that he finally asked to be released as AP. He was so malnourished that he nearly had to be hospitalized on his return home. His identical twin brother outweighed him by 40 lbs. when they gave their joint homecoming reports. 

Without purse and script was something that had to be abolished. Rex Williams admitted as much after he told us the story.

[jkwilliams]

Just now, Exiled said:

Without purse and script was something that had to be abolished. Rex Williams admitted as much after he told us the story.

I just think my friend’s mission president was an idiot. My friend said the only time he had ever seen his father cry was when he saw his emaciated son get off the plane. His father called Argentina and read the riot act to the mission president. 

[Exiled]

32 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

I just think my friend’s mission president was an idiot. My friend said the only time he had ever seen his father cry was when he saw his emaciated son get off the plane. His father called Argentina and read the riot act to the mission president. 

I know I would have had that been my son. 

[USU78]

3 hours ago, strappinglad said:

In an attempt to " follow the money " , who is covering Denson's legal bills? Is this pro bono or contingency or whatever the phrases are? Billable hours seem to be piling up.

Of course the temptation is to lay that at the feet of the same Godbeites that funded the suit against FAIR a few years back.

[Bernard Gui]

4 hours ago, Exiled said:

Without purse and script was something that had to be abolished. Rex Williams admitted as much after he told us the story.

I have my great-uncle Lorenzo’s diaries from his without-purse-or-scrip mission in the Southern States. Ben Rich and BH Roberts were his mission presidents. Those were days of great physical, spiritual, and emotional trial, but the blessings were commensurate. He crossed the Blue Ridge Mountains on foot many times carrying his “grip” (satchel bag) to transfers, conferences, and visits. At mealtime and nighttime they knocked on doors of homes in remote areas and  ”asked for entertainment” (food and a place to sleep). Sometimes they would know of members in the area or people who were known to be friendly to Mormons, but other times they were turned away, and had to “spend the night with Uncle Sam.” One problem with that was “the humbleful bugs” (chiggers). They ate a lot of watermelon and wore out a lot of shoes. He tasted his first oysters in New Orleans.

It was just a few years after the Cane Creek Massacre in Tennessee where a mob killed two missionaries and several members in a Sunday meeting. His dad James had been branch president at Cane Creek, but their family and a few other Tennessee Saints moved to the LDS colonies in southern Colorado just before the massacre. All of them left afterwards. It’s an incredible story that few Mormons know.

This was their operating philosophy...

Quote

D&C 123.12 For there are many yet on the earth among all sects, parties, and denominations, who are blinded by the subtle craftiness of men, whereby they lie in wait to deceive, and who are only kept from the truth because they know notwhere to find it—

13 Therefore, that we should waste and wear out our lives in bringing to light all the hidden things of darkness, wherein we know them; and they are truly manifest from heaven—

14 These should then be attended to with great earnestness.

15 Let no man count them as small things; for there is much which lieth in futurity, pertaining to the saints, which depends upon these things.

16 You know, brethren, that a very large ship is benefited very much by a very small helm in the time of a storm, by being kept workways with the wind and the waves.

17 Therefore, dearly beloved brethren, let us cheerfully do all things that lie in our power; and then may we stand still, with the utmost assurance, to see the salvation of God, and for his arm to be revealed.

We don’t refer much to wasting and wearing away our lives for the Kingdom anymore. I stand in awe of what he and they did. I don’t know if I would have the faith and courage, but I suppose that would rightly be called presentism......

Edited June 22, 2018 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

8 hours ago, hope_for_things said:

The whole theology around being judged for our thoughts is problematic from my perspective.  

Since thoughts precede actions....Bro Bishop certainly put some thought and planning into his actions...we should be very careful what we think about. Repeated thoughts create neural pathways that can become problematic if not checked. God, Jesus, and the Prophets  have warned us about this many times.

Edited June 22, 2018 by Bernard Gui

[Exiled]

23 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

I have my great-uncle Lorenzo’s diaries from his without-purse-or-scrip mission in the Southern States. Ben Rich and BH Roberts were his mission presidents. Those were days of great physical, spiritual, and emotional trial, but the blessings were commensurate. He crossed the Blue Ridge Mountains on foot many times carrying his “grip” (satchel bag) to transfers, conferences, and visits. At mealtime and nighttime they knocked on doors of homes in remote areas and  ”asked for entertainment” (food and a place to sleep). Sometimes they would know of members in the area or people who were known to be friendly to Mormons, but other times they were turned away, and had to “spend the night with Uncle Sam.” One problem with that was “the humble full bugs” (chiggers). They ate a lot of watermelon and wore out a lot of shoes. He tasted his first oysters in New Orleans.

It was just a few years after the Cane Creek Massacre in Tennessee where a mob killed two missionaries and several members in a Sunday meeting. His dad James had been branch president at Cane Creek, but their family and a few other Tennessee Saints moved to the LDS colonies in southern Colorado just before the massacre. All of them left afterwards. It’s an incredible story that few Mormons know.

This was their operating philosophy...

We don’t refer much to wasting and wearing away our lives for the Kingdom anymore. I stand in awe of what he and they did. I don’t know if I would have the faith and courage, but I suppose that would rightly be called presentism......

Without purse or script would have been a big test for anyone. I'm glad the church changed that one. I would have been worrying a lot when my nephews were out.

[Bernard Gui]

35 minutes ago, Exiled said:

Without purse or script would have been a big test for anyone. I'm glad the church changed that one. I would have been worrying a lot when my nephews were out.

In some ways I would like to try the challenge....could I do it? What am I made of? Hugh Nibley said one of his relatives in the pioneer days was asked about the hardships of the trek. His reply was something like, “It was a jolly adventure.” I marvel at that attitude. Lewis and Clark come to mind.

Edited June 22, 2018 by Bernard Gui

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, Exiled said:

Without purse or script would have been a big test for anyone. I'm glad the church changed that one. I would have been worrying a lot when my nephews were out.

Without purse or scrip.

It's a common error, but there's no T on the end of the word.

According to Easton's Bible Dictionary, it means "a small bag or wallet usually fastened to the girdle ( 1 Samuel 17:40 ); 'a shepherd's bag.'"

The purse would carry money, and the scrip would be for other provisions such as food.

[Exiled]

13 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Without purse or scrip.

It's a common error, but there's no T on the end of the word.

According to Easton's Bible Dictionary, it means "a small bag or wallet usually fastened to the girdle ( 1 Samuel 17:40 ); 'a shepherd's bag.'"

The purse would carry money, and the scrip would be for other provisions such as food.

Thanks for the info

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

In some ways I would like to try the challenge....could I do it? What am I made of? Hugh Nibley said one of his relatives in the pioneer days was asked about the hardships of the trek. His reply was something like, “It was a jolly adventure.” I marvel at that attitude. Lewis and Clark come to mind.

I'm afraid the jolliest adventure I can muster is the three-day car-camping trip I'm going on next week with two of my sons to three national parks in southeastern Utah and Colorado.

[Bernard Gui]

55 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I'm afraid the jolliest adventure I can muster is the three-day car-camping trip I'm going on next week with two of my sons to three national parks in southeastern Utah and Colorado.

I tell my sons and grandkids to make their mission a jolly adventure. 

Fantastic country there. It will be jolly. Enjoy!

I miss your CN editorials. 

Edited June 22, 2018 by Bernard Gui