Home/Visiting Teaching to be discontinued

[Glenn101]

38 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Oh, I didn't know that members are still assigned families. Good to know!!

It will take some time for us to work this out, to find our way. But actually this is something that I and my partner have pretty much been doing for some time. All of our people are less active and we never just go and try to give a lesson, but try to find ways to help them. And there are many ways to do so.

My partner is a blunt, outspoken man, yet most of our families trust him and listen to him because he has a history of helping them in the time of need and know he loves and cares for them.

Glenn

[Glenn101]

6 hours ago, rockpond said:

While consensus and revelation are separate and distinct things

Do you think that revelation can come in increments that will lead to a consensus? This seems to be the approach that President Nelson is talking about.

Glenn

[rockpond]

1 hour ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I missed the opportunity to learn calculus at school. My sister, who is a maths teacher, gave me a set of discarded calculus texts: the teacher edition and the student edition. I find it a very meaningful exercise to attempt to work out the practice problems on my own and then consult the answers in the teacher edition. I suspect that I wouldn't be learning quite so much about calculus as a system -- and about how to become an independent learner of mathematics -- if I were to maintain that my answers were just as right as, or even better than, those in the teacher edition. Similarly, I don't think I would be learning much at all if I just looked at the answers without trying to solve the practice problems myself. But as always, to each his own.

There’s often more than one way to arrive at a correct answer in calculus. 

 

[rockpond]

1 hour ago, Glenn101 said:

Do you think that revelation can come in increments that will lead to a consensus? This seems to be the approach that President Nelson is talking about.

Glenn

Yes but that doesn’t seem to be what President Nelson described.  

[Avatar4321]

10 minutes ago, rockpond said:

Yes but that doesn’t seem to be what President Nelson described.  

President nelson was describing the process of obtaining revelation. 

[Hamba Tuhan]

28 minutes ago, rockpond said:

There’s often more than one way to arrive at a correct answer in calculus. 

Absolutely! And I know for a fact that my sister encourages her students to use whatever combination of methods works for them. But regardless of how one gets there, in the end, the answers are the same. It is, perhaps, the clearest way to confirm that one isn't relying upon a faulty method.

Edited April 9, 2018 by Hamba Tuhan

[Rain]

1 hour ago, Glenn101 said:

Do you think that revelation can come in increments that will lead to a consensus? This seems to be the approach that President Nelson is talking about.

Glenn

Sounds like Elder Scott's little packets of light.

[Tacenda]

2 hours ago, Glenn101 said:

It will take some time for us to work this out, to find our way. But actually this is something that I and my partner have pretty much been doing for some time. All of our people are less active and we never just go and try to give a lesson, but try to find ways to help them. And there are many ways to do so.

My partner is a blunt, outspoken man, yet most of our families trust him and listen to him because he has a history of helping them in the time of need and know he loves and cares for them.

Glenn

When I went inactive my home teachers really dropped the ball. I got a visit when it was my birthday and that is about it. I've always enjoyed home teachers, because we've lucked out with a few excellent ones. I hope that whoever is assigned to our family in our new ward will want to come around! Good job Glenn!

[why me]

3 hours ago, Glenn101 said:

People are living a higher better today than I can ever remember, in the way of creature comforts and they actually have much more free time to do things other than make a living. Machinery has eased the manual labor burden and information technology has given us so much more rapid means of research, etc. I think the work life stress is more dependent on the type of work one does. School load has also been eased by technology and the access to information so much more easily. But I do believe that you are correct that the changes have come about because of changes in society and so many members of the church following those changes. The time is still available to do the work of the Lord, it just has become less of a priority to many.

Glenn

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-it-feels-like-you-have-no-free-time-anymore-2017-11?r=US&IR=T

The perception seems to be different when it comes to living better. However, home teaching and visiting teaching has changed. And the reasons for the change is what should be discussed. My guess is simple: for many, the lds church was taking up too much time and so, salt lake decided to ease the 'burden'. Likewise for the two hour meetings that many wards and branches have adopted. I do believe that people are using the power of reflection to see just where the free time is going and how certain lifestyles affect one's perception.

Perhaps we also need to take in the worries of life: surviving economically and how that impacts the brain. The financial crisis of 2007-8 is a case in point and the affects that this crisis has had on many members in the world. I think that many families have a bunker hill mentality.

[why me]

4 hours ago, Calm said:

It is spring break in our part of Utah.

Today was fast and testimony.  Several parents got up and told how over the past week they went with their kids to do baptisms at different temples than they usually went to...the temples were all packed with youth doing baptisms for the dead for their spring break activity.

It can be done.  It is usually a choice, though there are obviously many families with lower incomes or other reasons who do not have the free time that others do, but it is unlikely a majority of people in the Church who are in that position.  It will be a matter of priorities for the rest of us, just as it always has been.

I agree. But the change was made. But why was it made? What prompted the leaders to make such a change?

“What does ministering look like?” Sister Bingham asked. Ministering looks like going for a walk, getting together for a game night, offering service, serving together, visiting (in person, by phone, online, or via text), delivering a birthday card, and cheering at a soccer game, she said. “It looks like sharing a scripture or quote from a conference talk that would be meaningful to that individual. It looks like discussing a gospel question and sharing testimony to bring clarity and peace. It looks like becoming part of someone’s life and caring about him or her.” (See related story.)

https://www.lds.org/church/news/ministering-to-replace-home-and-visiting-teaching?lang=eng

It will be interesting to see just how people will begin to minister to each other. How many text messages will be sent out in place of person to person visits.

 

[why me]

32 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

When I went inactive my home teachers really dropped the ball. I got a visit when it was my birthday and that is about it. I've always enjoyed home teachers, because we've lucked out with a few excellent ones. I hope that whoever is assigned to our family in our new ward will want to come around! Good job Glenn!

In the new program, a text message may suffice or an online chat. Of course, you can always request a home visit but how many home visits can one request for a chat when they no longer need to visit each month without causing a disruption to their lives?

[Tacenda]

1 minute ago, why me said:

In the new program, a text message may suffice or an online chat. Of course, you can always request a home visit but how many home visits can one request for a chat when they no longer need to visit each month without causing a disruption to their lives?

I see a problem right there. Too bad, I guess.

[pogi]

10 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I see a problem right there. Too bad, I guess.

If you want to see your home teachers more often, there is a really easy solution to that problem...go to church! They will likely be there

[rockpond]

2 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

President nelson was describing the process of obtaining revelation. 

He called it that.  But never indicated a revelation being received. 

[rockpond]

2 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Absolutely! And I know for a fact that my sister encourages her students to use whatever combination of methods works for them. But regardless of how one gets there, in the end, the answers are the same. It is, perhaps, the clearest way to confirm that one isn't relying upon a faulty method.

In this case the answer is salvation and eternal life through Jesus Christ.  I’m comfortable that, while quite imperfect, I’m on the right path.  I believe President Nelson is as well though it’s obviously not my place to even be making such a declaration (just want to be clear since so many here seem to be putting a negative spin on my comments).

[Hamba Tuhan]

1 hour ago, why me said:

In the new program, a text message may suffice or an online chat. Of course, you can always request a home visit but how many home visits can one request for a chat when they no longer need to visit each month without causing a disruption to their lives?

I can't imagine men (or women) who've already figured out what it means to sincerely minister somehow slipping backwards just because the reporting metric has shifted. I can imagine men (and women) who previously haven't got it making the incremental steps necessary to get up to speed. But maybe I'm just an optimist?

Edited April 9, 2018 by Hamba Tuhan

[Hamba Tuhan]

1 hour ago, rockpond said:

In this case the answer is salvation and eternal life through Jesus Christ.

I think that's a great answer if the question is 'What do we want?' (or even 'What should we want?'). I'm not convinced it tackles the issue of 'How do we get there?'

I can appreciate why someone might prefer to skip right over that question, but it was a central focus of the Lord's mortal ministry. He clearly reminded those who wished to follow Him about broad ways and narrow ways, about false prophets (and true prophets), and about how not everyone who has spoken His name in anticipation of eternal life will indeed enter into His kingdom. As one who accepts these warnings without reservation, I think checking one's answers to the question of 'How do we get there?' may be equally meaningful.

Jesus, if He is indeed an 'all roads lead to Me' kind of God, certainly has had plenty of opportunities to make that point clear. I must confess that I'm not seeing it. There is plenty of room in His words to debate what exactly is the will of the Father, but to contend that a strait and narrow path does not exist seems to me like a flight of fantasy. You may no doubt see things differently.

Edited April 9, 2018 by Hamba Tuhan

[Tacenda]

2 hours ago, pogi said:

If you want to see your home teachers more often, there is a really easy solution to that problem...go to church! They will likely be there

You got me there!!!

[rockpond]

5 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I think that's a great answer if the question is 'What do we want?' (or even 'What should we want?'). I'm not convinced it tackles the issue of 'How do we get there?'

I can appreciate why someone might prefer to skip right over that question, but it was a central focus of the Lord's mortal ministry. He clearly reminded those who wished to follow Him about broad ways and narrow ways, about false prophets (and true prophets), and about how not everyone who has spoken His name in anticipation of eternal life will indeed enter into His kingdom. As one who accepts these warnings without reservation, I think checking one's answers to the question of 'How do we get there?' may be equally meaningful.

Jesus, if He is indeed an 'all roads lead to Me' kind of God, certainly has had plenty of opportunities to make that point clear. I must confess that I'm not seeing it. There is plenty of room in His words to debate what exactly is the will of the Father, but to contend that a strait and narrow path does not exist seems to me like a flight of fantasy. You may no doubt see things differently.

A straight and narrow path most certainly does exist and He is not an ‘all roads lead to me’ kind of God.  If you think that’s what I have suggested than you have misread my words.

As you note, we are to follow Him.  And He taught that the comforter would teach us the truth of all things.  I’m doing my very best to stay on THAT path. 

[Glenn101]

7 hours ago, why me said:

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-it-feels-like-you-have-no-free-time-anymore-2017-11?r=US&IR=T

The perception seems to be different when it comes to living better. However, home teaching and visiting teaching has changed. And the reasons for the change is what should be discussed. My guess is simple: for many, the lds church was taking up too much time and so, salt lake decided to ease the 'burden'. Likewise for the two hour meetings that many wards and branches have adopted. I do believe that people are using the power of reflection to see just where the free time is going and how certain lifestyles affect one's perception.

Perhaps we also need to take in the worries of life: surviving economically and how that impacts the brain. The financial crisis of 2007-8 is a case in point and the affects that this crisis has had on many members in the world. I think that many families have a bunker hill mentality.

I agree with much of what you said from the article and my own observations. The article pointed out that free time has actually gone up and hours worked have gone down. However perceptions so often do not square with reality. Many people have begun to value time or equate time with money. The part that I bolded is where I sort of disagree with you. I believe that for many the perception was that the LDS church was taking too much of their time but I also believe that perception was/is mainly among the less active people. In my opinion, as a believing and fairly active member, it is how a person sets their priorities that affect their perceptions on whether the amount of time spent on church activities is excessive or not.

Glenn

[Glenn101]

8 hours ago, Tacenda said:

When I went inactive my home teachers really dropped the ball. I got a visit when it was my birthday and that is about it. I've always enjoyed home teachers, because we've lucked out with a few excellent ones. I hope that whoever is assigned to our family in our new ward will want to come around!

I think that the Home and Visiting Teaching has fallen off in general in the church. In the last few wards and branches I have attended lately it has been really bad. In the wards I have attended where home and visiting teaching were alive and vibrant, the percentage of less actives was quote lower than the others. I hope that you do find some good home and visiting teachers. I really wish that you lived in my area. I would really like to get to know you in person.

Glenn

[Hamba Tuhan]

2 hours ago, rockpond said:

He taught that the comforter would teach us the truth of all things.  I’m doing my very best to stay on THAT path. 

Which simply brings us full circle to where we are compelled to assess your claim that the Lord for some reason is directing the Holy Ghost to teach you 'truths' that differ (your word) from what he is teaching his authorised prophets, what He is teaching me, and what He is teaching all other engaged, faithful Saints with whom I am personally familiar. 

[Hamba Tuhan]

1 hour ago, Glenn101 said:

In the wards I have attended where home and visiting teaching were alive and vibrant, the percentage of less actives was quote lower than the others.

In my experience, church attendance predictably tracks home and visiting teaching. More visits = more people at church. Fewer visits = fewer people at church. It's that simple.

[Rain]

1 hour ago, Glenn101 said:

I agree with much of what you said from the article and my own observations. The article pointed out that free time has actually gone up and hours worked have gone down. However perceptions so often do not square with reality. Many people have begun to value time or equate time with money. The part that I bolded is where I sort of disagree with you. I believe that for many the perception was that the LDS church was taking too much of their time but I also believe that perception was/is mainly among the less active people. In my opinion, as a believing and fairly active member, it is how a person sets their priorities that affect their perceptions on whether the amount of time spent on church activities is excessive or not.

Glenn

I think that many who feel that the church takes up too much time are also active with demanding callings. While I feel it is a matter of priorities with choosing to minister I also recognize the need for priorities in choosing other things . For example, during the school year for my husband, weeks have happened where YM stake soccer, combined activity with teacher's qourem is in charge and YM cleaning the church have been scheduled and my husband has a mid term, final or project for school. That may be too much for my husband so his school things get priority and he makes arrangements for someone else to do one or more of the church things.

My husband feels hyper responsible about doing everything. It has taken time working with him so that he can choose the "best" thing when he can't do it all. 

Here is also where a little creativity can come to play as well. Often people when they are dealing with children or youth think, "I can't do both things" thinking that you have to take double the time for both, but if you have the children help you with the other thing then you double your work while teaching the children/youth more effectively. 

For example, if ministering means that our HT family needs yards work done, you ask the teacher's qourem president you are working with what he thinks about the quorem doing it. I'm not suggesting that the quorum take over all your ministering, just that there are creative ways that people miss. Perhaps a busy bishop needs to travel some distance to give a blessing to someone he HT. It may work out that someone he needs to talk with, which he would normally do in office, can drive with him and help him give the blessing.

So the "church" CAN expect too much of someone, but working with the Lord and making prioriries you can end up doing much more than you would/could on your own.

[Marginal Gains]

15 hours ago, Glenn101 said:

Very simple. When a person claims  a personal revelation is not for the church, but it conflicts with a revelation from the brethren that is for the church. Can you give me an example where they both can be true? 

Glenn

You are quite right, they can’t. So where does that leave us?

Edited April 9, 2018 by Marginal Gains