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Whenever you get government involved in an enterprise, prices skyrocket or services stagnate.  Examples:

Post Office - snail pace.

DMV - torture.

Veterans Hospital - a disgrace.

College Students - tuition increases FAR exceed the rate of inflation for the last several decades.

ACA - death panels.

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There's no relation between cost and worth when it comes to degrees, particularly when it comes to graduate degrees (depending on the field, of course, but generally speaking).  Schools continue to build pretty buildings and to add other bells and whistles.  Where's the money gonna come from to pay for that?  No prob ... if all else fails, the schools just jack up tuition. Where's the money gonna come from to pay higher tuition?  Oh, yeah, that's right: The schools don't have to worry about that.  Only the students do.  A few years ago, I got a solicitation for funds from the Dean at one of my alma maters.  In response, I wrote him a letter describing my economic situation (it's a little different now than it was then, but not by much: The more things change, the more they stay the same) along with a brief sketch of my sordid history, and told him that, while I wished him well in his quest for funding, before I could contribute, I would have to get my degree to pay off for me before I could get it to pay off for anyone else.  There's a new Dean.  if-and-when he solicits me for funds, he's going to get a similar letter. <_< 

Edited by Kenngo1969
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3 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

I would have to get my degree to pay off for me before I could get it to pay off for anyone else

I agree with all you wrote, the above words hit home more so than the others. State ran schools have become addicted to federal funding and now they are encumbered with financial issues and the seemingly best answer, for them, is to raise tuition.

 Now, state run schools are continuously "jonesing" for that fed money. I have a financial plan to pay off my grad student loans in four years (between 100 and 200K). It is the same plan I used to pay off my business loans when I started my business. I will just live very lean until I am debt free. I hate debt, but sometimes there is "no other way," a fall forward for those who know what I mean.

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17 hours ago, longview said:

Whenever you get government involved in an enterprise, prices skyrocket or services stagnate.  Examples:

Post Office - snail pace.

DMV - torture.

Veterans Hospital - a disgrace.

College Students - tuition increases FAR exceed the rate of inflation for the last several decades.

ACA - death panels.

It was anti-government fanatics that forced the Post Office to fully fund retirements for employees not yet born.

The DMV I go to is a breeze.

Veterans hospitals are some of the best in the world for care once you get in. Under-staffing due to anti-government fanatics is a recurring problem.

It was Ronald Reagan who privatized the Federal student loan program. In California he pushed through tuition's at state colleges and universities.

The PPACA is the most popular medical program in history. NO death panels.

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1 hour ago, thesometimesaint said:

It was anti-government fanatics that forced the Post Office to fully fund retirements for employees not yet born.

The DMV I go to is a breeze.

Veterans hospitals are some of the best in the world for care once you get in. Under-staffing due to anti-government fanatics is a recurring problem.

It was Ronald Reagan who privatized the Federal student loan program. In California he pushed through tuition's at state colleges and universities.

The PPACA is the most popular medical program in history. NO death panels.

I disagree with almost all of this. No I take that back, I disagree with all of it. From my own experience here is what I have found out to be true.

I worked for the USPS for 25 years and I assure you it was not "anti-government fanatics" 

The DMV I have went to in Utah, (West Valley) and in Nebraska have always been a nightmare as far as too many people, their grumpy attitudes...

Veterans hospitals, I am thankful for them, but they are deplorable as far as they are government run health system. I have experienced the long waits for simple appointments and then once my dad got in the waits have been as long as 7 hours before my dad was seen by a doctor (one that was not in the area of expertise that my dad needed). Nope I am convinced that if the VA was run privately it would be a much, much,much (did I say much) better ran than the current health care system.

It was Reagan who in 1983 established The Student Loan Consolidation and Technical Amendments Act, it lets borrowers consolidate student loans from multiple lenders. by 1986 The average cost for tuition, room, board, and expenses at a private college becomes $19,708 per year in 2015 dollars. A public college now costs on average $8,543 annually. Source here. It has only gone up and President reagan has been out since 1989 (almost 30 years). No it is the educational system using the student loan program to fund state and private schools which because of this have become for some a cash cow and for others it has become the only way for some (most)  state and private schools to stay solvent. Not Reagan's error.

As far as the PPACA has motivated numerous insurance companies to pull out as soon as they legally could (and this is before the orange hair cheeto took over). But more importantly my son with a brain tumor under the PPACA was allowed 90 days of a prescription medication before it was cancelled because not enough people needed this drug (not enough brain tumors out there I guess). No thanks to the Affordable Care Act!

 

I sure wish posters would argue from intelligence and their own experiences and not from blind political aversions. Just saying.

 

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While it is easy to say the students are responsible for taking loads of debt without being sure they could pay or for getting degrees with limited or not economic value I don't think we should just people in their late teens and early twenties for lacking long-term planning skills.

The problem is not government providing money to students. It is how much they are willing to provide because of the high rate of return. Private student loans are equally insane about issuing lots of loans. My solution would be to make student loan debt dischargable by bankruptcy a set number of years after it is borrowed or after graduation/dropping out. Right now lenders give money for people getting degrees for philosophy and underwater basketweaving with the knowledge that even if the graduate ends up working in fast food for the rest of their life the debt will hang around their necks until they are dead. If we change the rules lenders will have to decide whether to back students or not and can make decisions based on criteria like what they are studying and the potential income from such a degree. If you loan money to a student who gets a useless degree they have a greater chance of losing out on the loan. Students who have $50k in debt will probably not be able to get more unless they are in a lucrative field. Tuition rates will adjust to deal with the diminishing supply of money and fall. We can also hopefully get employers to stop demanding degrees for jobs that should not require them when the supply of graduates falls.

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32 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Students who have $50k in debt will probably not be able to get more unless they are in a lucrative field.

I agree with what you wrote except for the above. I have yet to see a graduate student with 50K or more in student loan debt not qualify. In fact every single student in my graduating law class has more than 50K in student loans and none were turned down for their student loans. 

 

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Tuition rates will adjust to deal with the diminishing supply of money and fall.

I hope you are right on this. But I do not see this happening when the govt gives out student loans and and Pell grants, the universities need the money, it motivates the universities to raise their tuitions because they know students are not going to get denied their student loans or Pell grants. Having said that I really hope you are right.

 

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We can also hopefully get employers to stop demanding degrees for jobs that should not require them when the supply of graduates falls.

I would also love to see this happen as well. 

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6 minutes ago, Anijen said:

I agree with what you wrote except for the above. I have yet to see a graduate student with 50K or more in student loan debt not qualify. In fact every single student in my graduating law class has more than 50K in student loans and none were turned down for their student loans. 

 

I hope you are right on this. But I do not see this happening when the govt gives out student loans and and Pell grants, the universities need the money, it motivates the universities to raise their tuitions because they know students are not going to get denied their student loans or Pell grants. Having said that I really hope you are right.

 

I would also love to see this happen as well. 

No, I agree that you can get more then 50k pretty easily. I think if we changed bankruptcy rules as I suggested it would curb excessive student loans.

If we change the way student loans work the federal government will have to adjust their lending rules as well.

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My kids all have degrees. They all had differing levels of student loan debt. They all worked part time during the school year and summers. What they DIDN'T do is use their student loans to party every weekend. They got enough from their old man to pay for the first year's tuition , that's it. Scholarships, grants, loans, and work paid for the rest. I'm not saying anyone here did any different, but I see way too many students spend a lot on unnecessary stuff because they can just get more loans next year. Then they cry because the loans are too much to cope with later.

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7 hours ago, strappinglad said:

My kids all have degrees. They all had differing levels of student loan debt. They all worked part time during the school year and summers. What they DIDN'T do is use their student loans to party every weekend. They got enough from their old man to pay for the first year's tuition , that's it. Scholarships, grants, loans, and work paid for the rest. I'm not saying anyone here did any different, but I see way too many students spend a lot on unnecessary stuff because they can just get more loans next year. Then they cry because the loans are too much to cope with later.

I'm seeing a lot of this as well. Of course not every student is this way, but I see this with my daughter's friends. They are not partiers. They are good LDS students, but they spend a lot without blinking an eye on things that are unnecessary.

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18 hours ago, thesometimesaint said:

The PPACA is the most popular medical program in history. NO death panels.

Anijen responded adequately to all of this, but I just wanted to say that as far as death panels are concerned, just because they don't call them that, doesn't mean there aren't any.  I'm not sure about the ACA in particular, because it isn't a single-payer system, but in countries which have single-payer there comes a point where the system must decide whether they consider you worth continuing care for.  And the decision is made by some committee or official that is most certainly NOT called a death panel, but that is what it is.

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I wonder if anyone will help those of us with a lot of debt.  Like millions of others we took out loans thinking we'd have a shot at the American dream like those before us, now it feels like we've been left holding the bag, and from what I've seen from Devos I have even less hope.  Reading up on the mental illness and rise in suicides due to financial hardship really makes me cringe.  Nothing seems to be working out for a lot of graduates, even STEM majors are struggling.  Makes me think I just wasted my time and most of my life and that like millions of others all I have to look forward to is poverty, misery, possible homelessness and death.

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On 5/22/2017 at 10:42 AM, Stargazer said:

Anijen responded adequately to all of this, but I just wanted to say that as far as death panels are concerned, just because they don't call them that, doesn't mean there aren't any.  I'm not sure about the ACA in particular, because it isn't a single-payer system, but in countries which have single-payer there comes a point where the system must decide whether they consider you worth continuing care for.  And the decision is made by some committee or official that is most certainly NOT called a death panel, but that is what it is.

And I do not necessarily have a problem with it. There comes a time when treatment is pointless and can only extend life briefly and often at a decreased quality of life.

Most single payer systems have the option to opt out so if you can afford it....opt out.

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6 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

And I do not necessarily have a problem with it. There comes a time when treatment is pointless and can only extend life briefly and often at a decreased quality of life.

Most single payer systems have the option to opt out so if you can afford it....opt out.

Worked in a skilled nursing facility for a while, seeing people at the end of life was depressing.  We all die someday, if you ask me extending your life via machines, drugs, etc. Is pointless considering the quality of life you get.  We all die someday,  is what it is. 

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On 5/21/2017 at 2:56 PM, Anijen said:

I agree with all you wrote, the above words hit home more so than the others. State ran schools have become addicted to federal funding and now they are encumbered with financial issues and the seemingly best answer, for them, is to raise tuition.

 Now, state run schools are continuously "jonesing" for that fed money. I have a financial plan to pay off my grad student loans in four years (between 100 and 200K). It is the same plan I used to pay off my business loans when I started my business. I will just live very lean until I am debt free. I hate debt, but sometimes there is "no other way," a fall forward for those who know what I mean.

Well and good.  Fortunately, I don't have nearly the student loan debt that you do.  Unfortunately (as I have noted several times previously on the Board), while my current employer has treated me far better than I could have hoped, my employer's good treatment doesn't change the fact that I now have completed a very large circle, and am now back doing the same type of job at almost the same rate of pay that I left more than 20 years ago and eventually decided to seek the degree in hopes of escaping. I barely have enough to pay expenses.  The only way I've been able to pay my student loans is to go on Income-Based Repayment.

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I'm starting to think a 4 year degree, unless it's for a career that requires it, is not needed. It pains me to see you on the board with student debt. I think someone who will go unmentioned was trying to change that and even give free college, forgot the school. I think it should happen!

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On 5/20/2017 at 10:49 PM, longview said:

Whenever you get government involved in an enterprise, prices skyrocket or services stagnate.  Examples:

Post Office - snail pace.

DMV - torture.

Veterans Hospital - a disgrace.

College Students - tuition increases FAR exceed the rate of inflation for the last several decades.

ACA - death panels.

There are a couple of reasons for exploding  college tuition -

  1. State funding drying up
  2. Bloated administration - administrative positions at universities have multiplied and pay 6-7 figures, while full-time roles for professors are drying up. Universities now pay contractors near minimum wage to teach, which in turn exacerbates the student debt problem
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You took on the debt, you pay it. 

You could have gone to a community college for 2 years, then transferred to a state university. Working part time. All while living at home.

I did, and along with a couple of small scholarships graduated with zero student debt.

Edited by mnn727
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18 minutes ago, mnn727 said:

You took on the debt, you pay it. 

You could have gone to a community college for 2 years, then transferred to a state university. Working part time. All while living at home.

I did, and along with a couple of small scholarships graduated with zero student debt.

I did, tried grad school, screwed up and had my mental health take a nose dive, I'm doing what I can and am having my sanity slowly slip away.  All I want is an opportunity to work in my field the way everyone else in my generation did.  Either that or enjoy when even more of us either end up on disability, the street, mental institutions or rotting bodies with holes in their heads that get found a month or more after death.  Either way the likes of you end up with the tab.  Ever dawn on you that maybe it's easier to help your own countrymen out or are you part of the problem?

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47 minutes ago, Gray said:

There are a couple of reasons for exploding  college tuition -

  1. State funding drying up
  2. Bloated administration - administrative positions at universities have multiplied and pay 6-7 figures, while full-time roles for professors are drying up. Universities now pay contractors near minimum wage to teach, which in turn exacerbates the student debt problem

1.  governments should NOT have been funding scholarships and grants to begin with.  It is a powerful disincentive to cost control.   Which directly leads to:

2.  bloated administration, professors only teaching just a few hours per week but receiving unjustifiably generous salaries, junky course offerings, politicized indoctrination, etc.

In the old days, students were able to work part time jobs year round and still carry full course loads and be able to graduate with little or no debt.  Nowadays, this scenario has been blown out of the water because of severe economic distortions due to unwise government largess (robbing Peter to pay Paul).  And the fact that NOT every high school graduate need to go to college (they are NOT that interested but their parents will push them to attend with free money).

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