Gay Clergy- UMC Church Division

rockpond · May 2, 2017

9 minutes ago, Darren10 said:

"There is most certainly love and support for gay people outside of the church." - You cannot say that without citation. Mine was anecdotal referring only to those I personally knew who left the church because they were gay and those I personally knew they left behind by leaving the church. And to me, accepting one's lifestyle is not necessarily the same thing as rendering love and support. My daughter has lots of gay, bisexual, pansexual friends outside of church as it's a big trend in the school she attends. . She makes clear that she does not accept that lifestyle but they are good friends.

"Elder Christofferson reportedly told Meg and Jake Abhau that the church may not be a safe place for their gay teenage son." - That I DO call for reference soplease, CFR that.

"My testimony of the eternities includes exaltation for gay couples." - OK. Based off of what exactly?

Since I know gay Mormons who have found great love and support (not just acceptance) outside the church, I can state that it exists.

Here's the reference you requested: http://www.mormonstories.org/meg-and-jake-abhaus-meeting/

Based off of scripture study and personal revelation.

JulieM · May 2, 2017

9 minutes ago, Darren10 said:

I do love and protect and care for my wife, yes. So, why not a gay man? Why do you demean their capabilities?

"Coukd you do that?" - Could I do what?

Don't be obtuse. Read my post again if you need to, as it's obvious what I was asking. Or, just dodge answering it again

Edited May 2, 2017 by JulieM

bluebell · May 2, 2017

1 minute ago, Darren10 said:

Umm, bluebell, I never said whatyou believe. That goes to those who label me "boarderline homophobic" and condescend my arguments. in fact I think I expressly asked for your ideas, let me check....., oh yeah, "Any ideas from you?" I think that means I asked for your ideas.

I'm sorry, i really have no idea what your are saying here.

Darren10 · May 2, 2017

Happy;

Quote

What this means is that a gay person cannot express love to someone they are attracted to and could love in an intimate way. Heteros are allowed to do this, gays are not.

Homosexuals are allowed to love intimately exactly the same way hetero sexuals can love intimately. That they want to is a different matter but the standards are the same.

Quote

What if you were told you could never kiss, cuddle, hold hands, put your arm around, love, dedicate your life to someone you love? Would that sound like a happy life to you? What if you were told you would have an eternity of loneliness where you could not have any of those things?

I would be sad and it would be challenging.

now, "What if you were told you would have an eternity of loneliness where you could not have any of those things?" - CFR as this is what the LDS church teaches.

Darren10 · May 2, 2017

2 minutes ago, JulieM said:

Don't be obtuse. Read my post again if you need to, as it's obvious what I was asking. Or, just dodge answering it again

nope, "Could I do what"?

Darren10 · May 2, 2017

2 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I'm sorry, i really have no idea what your are saying here.

1) I did not tell you what you believe.

2) Contrary to telling you what you believe, I asked what you believe.

3) By asking you what you believe implies I do not know what you believe.

JulieM · May 2, 2017

14 minutes ago, Darren10 said:

nope, "Could I do what"?

"To do something comparable would be for you, a straight man, to marry, love, and live with another man for your life."

Could you do the bolded part above?

Edited May 2, 2017 by JulieM

HappyJackWagon · May 2, 2017

19 minutes ago, Darren10 said:

Happy;

Homosexuals are allowed to love intimately exactly the same way hetero sexuals can love intimately. That they want to is a different matter but the standards are the same.

I would be sad and it would be challenging.

now, "What if you were told you would have an eternity of loneliness where you could not have any of those things?" - CFR as this is what the LDS church teaches.

The conversation with you has become quite pointless but since you issued a CFR I'll respond.

I was responding to everything you have said about gays being damned and how they could never be exalted and that there will never be h0mosxual relationship in eternity. So if a gay person could never have a gay spouse, it seems reasonable to think that they would be alone. I suppose your answer might be that the gay person should engage in a hetero eternal marriage where there is no physical attraction, but that seems ludicrous. But again you fail to show any church teaching that provides a plan of happiness for gay people, which is the point I've been trying to make all along.

-they can't be exalted

-they can't be in an eternal relationship to someone they are attracted to

-if they can't seek comfort, intimacy and love it seems gays will be alone.

All of that sounds miserable. There is no plan of happiness for gays in the church. All the church seems to offer is individuals who will shout them down, tell them they're damnable all while pretending to welcome them at church meetings to which they can't participate in a church their children are unable to join. The church has nothing for gay people and you've continued to illustrate that reality very well throughout this thread.

california boy · May 2, 2017

1 hour ago, Darren10 said:

"Well Darren, you are making huge assumptions that have no basis in anything God has actually revealed." - Who's making a huge assumption?

"You don't think a gay person can be exalted. Yet you have no basis to make such an assumption." -

D&C 132:

Being "damned" is the contradiction to being exalted. Even those who make it to the Celestial Kingdom are damned if they are not exalted.

When has the Lord's anointed authorized homosexual relations? Any anointed at anytime? Keep in mind that this dialogue is in view of exaltation therefore if a duly anointed priest of any church does not even believe in the LDS view of exaltation than that would pretty much nullify using that person as an authorized person of the Lord as per the content of this dialogue.

When has homosexual relations been authorized by the Lord? Anytime? Any place?

What is to become of these damned souls who did not abide by God's law?

Those who are not exalted "cannot be enlarged", are "not gods" in the sense of "being God" or inheriting the glory of God.

Here's what the covenant is for exaltation (the only non damned position in the eternities) is as well as to what exaltation is:

Note that I always emboldened "man marrying a wife". Where is there a doctrine of a "man marrying a man" or "woman marrying a woman'? Marital relations required for exaltation have always been between man and woman .

"Personally I put my eternity in the hands of God." - Me too but how would it affect your exaltation in the LDS view? While no explicit doctrine has been taught as to gay marriage and the eternities there is explicit doctrine taught about not abiding by the "new and everlasting covenant" and damnation resulting upon those who do not. Where is there room for homosexual relations which has always been condemned within Christianity?

"We have no idea if it is a requirement for all gods to have children." - Implicitly they are.

"None had eternal companions." - 100% incorrect in the LDS view.

"You think you know everything about the eternities." - I do? Should I CFR that?

"Somehow I doubt very much you even know a thimble full of what God has in store for any of us." - That is correct.

"the church is doing nothing but causing misery and a toxic environment for gay people" - Again, who is assuming too much?

"Church leaders are fumbling around in a glass darkly without answers or direction from God." - True enough when there is no revelation but we do have enough revelation to know what we are to do to "pass through the eternities". You fail to answer what place does a homosexual relationship have in that sojourn.

I never argued that straight couples could not be exalted, which are all of the quotes you provided. But you still have not quoted a single verse that says exaltation is not available for anyone who is gay.

I also have not made any claims that a gay person can be exalted. What I clearly stated is that NOTHING has been revealed on this subject. I honestly have no idea. And you are just guessing on what the will of God is. So since you don't speak for God, I am not really too concerned what your opinion is on something that God has yet to address.

56 minutes ago, RevTestament said:

Well, I am not just talking about naked women. A lot of pornography has men too. I generally don't consider nudes to be pornographic, which I am sure some will disagree with me on. I consider sexually suggestive poses usually to be pornographic and depictions of sex acts to be pornographic. When I was a teenager I probably found some nudes to be arousing, but generally not. Just looking at a beautiful naked woman, generally doesn't have much impact on me. I do enjoy beauty tho. I own a picture of a naked breasted woman - unless my wife managed to scrap it - but it is in storage because she thinks it pornographic. I thought it strikingly beautiful. Anyway, perhaps you don't feel a woman is a thing of beauty. However, just because one doesn't want to jump in bed with a naked lady I don't think means one is necessarily gay. There are actually some women I ran from - some I didn't enjoy kissing - some who just did nothing for me. In fact it seemed sometimes to me that I was destined to be a bachelor forever. If I liked them, they didn't particularly care for me and vice versa. What I am saying is that I feel initial reactions can be misinterpreted - they go into the brain and get processed - and I believe sometimes the brain's conclusion is "I must be __________. This is what my environment is telling me." This starts at a very young age. People process their environment differently. Some are sensitive - some are not, etc.

CB, I am not trying to tell you you are not gay. I am not trying to tell you why you are gay, and definitely not trying to tell you how you can stop being gay. I am suggesting tho, once a mind gets imprinted a certain way, it is difficult or nigh impossible to change. There are many stories which bear this out. Young men abused who think of themselves as gay when all the sex hormones in their brains get released due to the cravings of older men. It is just a very complicated thing, and there is no single, pat rule I think that can be applied to gay men.

Humm, I thought Playboy was considered porn. It doesn't change much however. I never saw any more porn of either sex until I was a freshman in college. I was an art major at BYU. As you probably know, models at BYU are required to wear leotards or swimming suits. My professor of my figure drawing class thought that was a ridiculous policy and felt that art students really needed to understand the human anatomy. So he strongly suggested that we all buy a Playboy and study the female figure more closely. I never saw any other ponography until long after my mission. Of course this was pre internet days. So I virtually had no exposure except to females, yet I knew very clearly that I was gay. That has never changed. I can safely say that ponography had nothing to do with making me gay.

It is not that I don't think women are a thing of beauty. It is that I am completely uninterested in having anything more than a friendship with them. I have many friends that are women. I have had many all though my school years as well. Who you are friends with does not determine whether you are gay or straight.

How was my mind imprinted any differently than all my other friends and brothers who all turned out to be straight.

I have no idea how I became gay either. I don't know if I was born gay. I don't know if it was some hormonal thing. Frankly I have no idea. What I do know is that there was never something that "caused" me to be gay. A single incident or even multiple incidents does not change your sexual orientation.

Darren10 · May 2, 2017

26 minutes ago, JulieM said:

"To do something comparable would be for you, a straight man, to marry, love, and live with another man for your life."

Could you do the bolded part above?

No.

Though if that was required for my exaltation and the same church leaders who told me it would be also told me that if I would not engage in heterosexual activities that all the blessing of eternities would be mine just like homosexuals than what should I do?

california boy · May 2, 2017

1 hour ago, Darren10 said:

"But there is nothing that makes me more angry with the church than those church leaders that promised me if I only married a woman, then I would become straight." - AGREED! I would be angry with them too. but, this is not a dialogue on vain promises made by local leaders (I honestly am unaware this was from top leadership though I could be wrong) .

"that I put my faith in that promise that they told me came from God" - Did they tell you that or was that assumed since they were your priesthood leaders? If the latter is true I find that problematic in and of itself. I do not follow along the line of serve and obey *just because* someone is your priesthood leader. I strongly believe in seeking and receiving personal spiritual confirmation as to what they say is true. I your case, hypothetically, you could have received confirmation as to the importance of living a life as God wants you to live but that your church leader's directions were a little off. There would have been nothing wrong with receiving that spiritual prompting and telling them as much. my own local bishop was very into obey someone simply because they are your priesthood leaders. After some, umm, friendly feedback from your truly, and my very vulgar and psychotic wife (I love her lots ) he actually altered that a bit and relied more on direction from the Holy spirit and became more charitable in the end. He even confessed as much in a testimony meeting. Good man.

"That was a big lie." - Sorry to hear that.

"This promise set me on a path that I should never have gone down." - I agree.

"This promise set me on a path that I should never have gone down. If you want me to elaborate on what a horrible misplaced of trust has been in my life, I will gladly tell you.' - Private Message me and Ill give you my email. We'll chat there my brother.

"Church leaders should NEVER make promises in the name of God when no such promise was ever given by God. " - EXACTLY!!! And that is precisely what I am saying regarding homosexual relations and exaltations. No one here should be saying that entering into a homosexual relation is fine and that those who do are just as much on the path to exaltation as those who are in heterosexual relations so long as they are good people. That is promising Celestial blessing based on Terrestrial requirements.

"For you to sit here on this thread and tell me to marry a woman is insulting and offensive. " - Well, then stop being insulted and offended for I made no such demand upon you or anyone else here. I merely shared what is required for exaltation. How was I incorrect?

By the way, did you even live in the Houston area? A man in my ward went through exactly what you are describing, divorced his wife and left to California with his boy friend. Though his wife was initially grieved, like... severely, she came to accept him and his new lifestyle knowing it was better for everyone that way.

Now, what is required for exaltation? Can those in homosexual relations gain it without exiting such a relation?

When I was a teen, in my mind, I thought that if I just did whatever God asked me to do, then by His power, he could make me straight. So I did just that. There was a quote by Marion G. Romney that went something like, "Magnifying your priesthood consists of doing more than anyone but God expects or requires." I clung to that quote for years, knowing that it was not enough to do just what was asked of my by my church leaders. It is why I went on and a served an honorable mission. And when I came home, I was still gay. So in my mind, at 20 years old, church leaders told me to get married and that would make me straight. Yes they did say this promise came from God and yes they said that this was from the general authorities. So I did what I was asked to do. Maybe if I was older like you. Or maybe if I trusted the church less. Or maybe if I didn't think that these men knew the will of God, then I would have told them to take a hike. In hind site, I agree, I was very naive to trust the church.

No I grew up in the Bay Area, and lived there most of my life. But this story has been repeated thousands of times. So I am not surprised you know someone with a similar story.

Sorry, it was Darren that suggested gay people should just marry a woman.

HappyJackWagon · May 2, 2017

15 minutes ago, Darren10 said:

No.

Though if that was required for my exaltation and the same church leaders who told me it would be also told me that if I would not engage in heterosexual activities that all the blessing of eternities would be mine just like homosexuals than what should I do?

You should be celibate and alone both in this life and in eternity. Sounds great, right?

Darren10 · May 2, 2017

16 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

The conversation with you has become quite pointless but since you issued a CFR I'll respond.

I was responding to everything you have said about gays being damned and how they could never be exalted and that there will never be h0mosxual relationship in eternity. So if a gay person could never have a gay spouse, it seems reasonable to think that they would be alone. I suppose your answer might be that the gay person should engage in a hetero eternal marriage where there is no physical attraction, but that seems ludicrous. But again you fail to show any church teaching that provides a plan of happiness for gay people, which is the point I've been trying to make all along.

-they can't be exalted

-they can't be in an eternal relationship to someone they are attracted to

-if they can't seek comfort, intimacy and love it seems gays will be alone.

All of that sounds miserable. There is no plan of happiness for gays in the church. All the church seems to offer is individuals who will shout them down, tell them they're damnable all while pretending to welcome them at church meetings to which they can't participate in a church their children are unable to join. The church has nothing for gay people and you've continued to illustrate that reality very well throughout this thread.

"I was responding to everything you have said about gays being damned and how they could never be exalted and that there will never be h0mosxual relationship in eternity."

Ok, that's correct but let's clarify that gays will not be damned, not a single one of them. Those who engage in homosexual behavior / lifestyle without repenting, especially if not wanting to repent of it are damned in the sense that they will not be exalted. Many blessing beyond any of our comprehension would be theirs for being good people no doubt but not exaltation which is the purpose of the gospel as it is the work and the glory of the Father.

"So if a gay person could never have a gay spouse, it seems reasonable to think that they would be alone." - No. They will not be alone. They will have eternal companions just not of the same gender. Don't ask me how that all works out as I do not think anyone knows for sure. But, just like I've no idea how with my own sins could be exalted, I have great faith in the Atonement that through it, things will work out. The LDS church is very clear that gays will not be alone in the eternities and I agree 100%.

As for having a marital companion, there are doctrines which address that specifically and they are directly connected to exaltation. That said, which of those doctrines would you cite that shows homosexual relations are compatible with eternal marriage and exaltation? I am not asking that we agree on the morality of homosexual relations or it being socially accepted, only how is it compatible with the LDS doctrines of eternal marriage and exaltation. That should move our dialogue away from pointless to at least an understanding.

"But again you fail to show any church teaching that provides a plan of happiness for gay people, which is the point I've been trying to make all along." - My point is that there is none save it homosexuals do not engage in homosexual activity. If they do that then their eternal happiness will be just as great as yours or mine. Their struggles in that regard will be great, even to the point of being unbearable, in this life but "plan of happiness" points to eternal happiness and that is theirs as much as anyone elses if they do the same things anyone else has to do.

"-they can't be in an eternal relationship to someone they are attracted to" - Only mortal, finite logic dictates that. By definition, infinite knowledge cannot comprehend infinite knowledge. We finite creatures need to place faith in something infinite like the Atonement and through that all things will work out.

"all while pretending to welcome them at church meetings " - Don't get haughty and presume what I authentically feel. I absolutely welcome them into church meetings. If you do not then speak for yourself, not the Church or members of the church collectively.

california boy · May 2, 2017

1 hour ago, Darren10 said:

"I am being VERY condescending towards you, BECAUSE you are making amazingly ridiculous suggestions for someone who is gay.' - Typical for those who want to create an alternative path towards exaltation. Condescend the opposition and accuse them of things they don't do. By doing so, you control and manipulate the argument into something which is not part of the argument. . Outside of answering direct questions regarding what I think, I have not made the case as to what gays should do except only how being gay would affect one "passing through the eternities". My posts are along a hypothetical and theological line of reasoning, not personal to what you should do now and how and with whom.

Well Darren, once again, I have never said I knew of an alternative path towards exaltation. What I have repeatedly said is that God has not revealed a path to exaltation to those that are gay. Maybe he hates us and doesn't want any of us in heaven. I don't know. But I trust in Him. There is a plan for those that are gay. Speculating about what that plan is or isn't with the very limited understanding we have of eternities is a waste of time. I wouldn't trust anyone who claims to know more than what has been revealed.

Darren10 · May 2, 2017

26 minutes ago, california boy said:

I never argued that straight couples could not be exalted, which are all of the quotes you provided. But you still have not quoted a single verse that says exaltation is not available for anyone who is gay.

I also have not made any claims that a gay person can be exalted. What I clearly stated is that NOTHING has been revealed on this subject. I honestly have no idea. And you are just guessing on what the will of God is. So since you don't speak for God, I am not really too concerned what your opinion is on something that God has yet to address.

Humm, I thought Playboy was considered porn. It doesn't change much however. I never saw any more porn of either sex until I was a freshman in college. I was an art major at BYU. As you probably know, models at BYU are required to wear leotards or swimming suits. My professor of my figure drawing class thought that was a ridiculous policy and felt that art students really needed to understand the human anatomy. So he strongly suggested that we all buy a Playboy and study the female figure more closely. I never saw any other ponography until long after my mission. Of course this was pre internet days. So I virtually had no exposure except to females, yet I knew very clearly that I was gay. That has never changed. I can safely say that ponography had nothing to do with making me gay.

It is not that I don't think women are a thing of beauty. It is that I am completely uninterested in having anything more than a friendship with them. I have many friends that are women. I have had many all though my school years as well. Who you are friends with does not determine whether you are gay or straight.

How was my mind imprinted any differently than all my other friends and brothers who all turned out to be straight.

I have no idea how I became gay either. I don't know if I was born gay. I don't know if it was some hormonal thing. Frankly I have no idea. What I do know is that there was never something that "caused" me to be gay. A single incident or even multiple incidents does not change your sexual orientation.

Sire, I cited that the blessings of exaltation are for those who abide by God's covenant which is sealed by the Holy spirit by the Lord's anointed and then asked you directly when has homosexual marriage been authorized by the Lord's anointed? That's all I asked you to respond to.

Darren10 · May 2, 2017

3 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

You should be celibate and alone both in this life and in eternity. Sounds great, right?

Sounds crappy to me. And you lie about the Church or I teach that gays will be alone in the eternities.

Why do you deviate from the topic at hand?

I think we've gone full circle on this.

Darren10 · May 2, 2017

4 minutes ago, california boy said:

Well Darren, once again, I have never said I knew of an alternative path towards exaltation. What I have repeatedly said is that God has not revealed a path to exaltation to those that are gay. Maybe he hates us and doesn't want any of us in heaven. I don't know. But I trust in Him. There is a plan for those that are gay. Speculating about what that plan is or isn't with the very limited understanding we have of eternities is a waste of time. I wouldn't trust anyone who claims to know more than what has been revealed.

"I have never said I knew of an alternative path towards exaltation." - True enough, so I apologize. I simply do not see how homosexual relations are eternally `compatible from what we do know.

california boy · May 2, 2017

26 minutes ago, Darren10 said:

No.

Though if that was required for my exaltation and the same church leaders who told me it would be also told me that if I would not engage in heterosexual activities that all the blessing of eternities would be mine just like homosexuals than what should I do?

The first thing you would learn if you were gay is to not trust what any church leader tells you about being gay. They also told gays to marry women in this life and that would make them straight. Of course that was false. So I doubt you would trust church leaders when they start making promises about the next life. Something they know even less about.

california boy · May 2, 2017

5 minutes ago, Darren10 said:

"I have never said I knew of an alternative path towards exaltation." - True enough, so I apologize. I simply do not see how homosexual relations are eternally `compatible from what we do know.

Well that is understandable since we know nothing about homosexual relations in the eternities. Trying to make them fit into the heterosexual plan for exaltation is ridiculous. Homosexuals are not heterosexuals. They don't want to marry the opposite sex in this life or the life to come.

california boy · May 2, 2017

14 minutes ago, Darren10 said:

Sire, I cited that the blessings of exaltation are for those who abide by God's covenant which is sealed by the Holy spirit by the Lord's anointed and then asked you directly when has homosexual marriage been authorized by the Lord's anointed? That's all I asked you to respond to.

Once again, you are citing blessings given to heterosexual couples who want to marry the opposite sex. No one is disputing this.

HappyJackWagon · May 2, 2017

15 minutes ago, Darren10 said:

Sounds crappy to me. And you lie about the Church or I teach that gays will be alone in the eternities.

Why do you deviate from the topic at hand?

I think we've gone full circle on this.

I lie? Calm down and try to be a little more responsible in your communication and less offensive.

I see 3 options and you can correct me where I'm wrong.

1- Gays will be alone in eternity because gay relationships will not be permitted

2- Gays will not be alone in eternity because they will not be gay any longer. They will be straight and therefore have a straight marriage.

3- Gays will continue to be gay but will engage in an eternal mixed orientation marriage

Please add other possibilities to my list if you see them. If you happen to agree with those possibilities, please show may where the church specifically teaches about any of them. I don't think you'll find anything. Why? Because the church doesn't have anything to offer gays. They are not included in the plan of happiness and therefore have not been addressed. The church doesn't have an answer for them.

Personally, I don't find any of these options realistic, healthy, or aspirational which again makes my point that the church has ZERO to offer gay people.

Darren10 · May 2, 2017

1 hour ago, california boy said:

When I was a teen, in my mind, I thought that if I just did whatever God asked me to do, then by His power, he could make me straight. So I did just that. There was a quote by Marion G. Romney that went something like, "Magnifying your priesthood consists of doing more than anyone but God expects or requires." I clung to that quote for years, knowing that it was not enough to do just what was asked of my by my church leaders. It is why I went on and a served an honorable mission. And when I came home, I was still gay. So in my mind, at 20 years old, church leaders told me to get married and that would make me straight. Yes they did say this promise came from God and yes they said that this was from the general authorities. So I did what I was asked to do. Maybe if I was older like you. Or maybe if I trusted the church less. Or maybe if I didn't think that these men knew the will of God, then I would have told them to take a hike. In hind site, I agree, I was very naive to trust the church.

No I grew up in the Bay Area, and lived there most of my life. But this story has been repeated thousands of times. So I am not surprised you know someone with a similar story.

Sorry, it was Darren that suggested gay people should just marry a woman.

It was me? (I assume thay was a typo or you misread something I wrote )

Sorry you went thorugh that. I think expecting to "become straight" was where the fallacy began. There are things which are lifelong struggles for us which can and will only be solved in the eternities.

Darren10 · May 2, 2017

52 minutes ago, california boy said:

The first thing you would learn if you were gay is to not trust what any church leader tells you about being gay. They also told gays to marry women in this life and that would make them straight. Of course that was false. So I doubt you would trust church leaders when they start making promises about the next life. Something they know even less about.

I think that many church leaders accepted many false social teachings about being gay, yes. As for Church leaders ergo; the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve, I do bot believe ever taught what tou say your church leaders told you.

As for hte next life, I think that's direct revelation from God for the top Church Leaders teach it consistantly and I know of no past contradiction to those teachings. The Atonement is poweful and makes things right. The only thing that stops its power rom taking affect is us. I think that's the eternal danger of living a homosexual life. Forging a love relation which will require eventual severance is a volatile boat ri steer.

Darren10 · May 2, 2017

51 minutes ago, california boy said:

Once again, you are citing blessings given to heterosexual couples who want to marry the opposite sex. No one is disputing this.

Yes. If these blessings are equally for homosexual couples then why does it not say so?

Edited May 2, 2017 by Darren10

juliann · May 2, 2017

On 5/1/2017 at 9:09 AM, HappyJackWagon said:

That is the assumption made by church leaders but I have seen no theology about creation to support it. To answer that question they would need to have some kind of explanation about how spirits are created. I'd love to read some church theology on this topic if any exists.

As it is, the only creation narrative we have seems to support the concept of men creating everything without the aid of women.

You aren't using the word theology correctly. Theology is the study of. Or a discussion of. By definition, it is the talking about a belief system. It is not the doctrine itself. Mormonism doesn't have a systematic theology so an appeal to theology as the basis of "truth" is misplaced.

As long as Mormons accept Genesis, male and female are most certainly in the creation narrative. What becomes problematic is when all creation accounts are ignored as they say that creation happened through "word." Without the element that is always inserted, biological reproduction, the gay debate changes considerably.

What difference would it make who was sexually attracted to who if attraction was not the basis of eternal partnerships? The strength of the Mormon position is that is protects the female role in creation.

Sign In

Gay Clergy- UMC Church Division

Recommended Posts

rockpond

JulieM

bluebell

Darren10

Darren10

Darren10

JulieM

HappyJackWagon

california boy

Darren10

california boy

HappyJackWagon

Darren10

california boy

Darren10

Darren10

Darren10

california boy

california boy

california boy

HappyJackWagon

Darren10

Darren10

Darren10

juliann

Recently Browsing 0 members

Similar Content

New HBO News Segment focuses on LGBT issues, touches on Monson, Priesthood 1 2 3 4 12

LDS Scientist/Biographer Presents Findings on the Science of Sexual Orientation 1 2 3 4 9

Elder Quentin L. Cook's Remarks to Black Church Leadership

Mormons supporting LGBT???

Radio West- Policy 1 2 3 4 12

Activity

Browse