Why is missionary work different between Active Mormons and Ex-Mormons

[sjdawg]

What is the difference between active members of the LDS Church promoting what they know and/or think they know to be true about the LDS faith and Ex-Mormons promoting what they know and/or think they know to be true about the LDS Faith?

 

It is a sincere question.   I know as an ex-mormon (technically I suppose just an inactive since I am still on the LDS records) I do feel like there is some difference but I'm not certain I can put my finger on why.   I know I go out of the way not to tell me family what I think about the LDS church on many topics.   Why do I feel an obligation to keep my mouth shut when my family feels no obligation to keep their beliefs to themselves?   Am I the only one who thinks this way?  

 

Edited January 23, 2017 by sjdawg

[Meadowchik]

Personally I think there is a difference between tearing down someone's faith, and that of trying to enhance their spirituality. I'd day that pro-LDS approaches can do both. My attitude is that whenever advocating or opposing any faith, I should with humility remember I am treading on holy ground. Convictions are highly personal and sacred.

So if you go about truly trying to enhance the spiritual lives of your LDS loved ones while being respectful of the territory, also expecting respect for your own, you might have some good, even mutually edifying experiences.

if you feel you're already approaching it like this, but don't feel like you receive the same respect, imo all you can do is to keep loving and trying. But do give it time and space, we all need that.

[sjdawg]

41 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

Personally I think there is a difference between tearing down someone's faith, and that of trying to enhance their spirituality. I'd day that pro-LDS approaches can do both. My attitude is that whenever advocating or opposing any faith, I should with humility remember I am treading on holy ground. Convictions are highly personal and sacred.

So if you go about truly trying to enhance the spiritual lives of your LDS loved ones while being respectful of the territory, also expecting respect for your own, you might have some good, even mutually edifying experiences.

if you feel you're already approaching it like this, but don't feel like you receive the same respect, imo all you can do is to keep loving and trying. But do give it time and space, we all need that.

I think that is why I am hesitate to promote my disbelief of mormonism.  Mormonism did not make me happy and I don't believe in it but I don't want to tear down anyone's belief system.   If it makes them happy who am I to criticize?   I do, however, with that some of my family and friends were more respectful of my decision to leave.  The seem to take it as a personal insult to them directly.  

[Gray]

2 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

Personally I think there is a difference between tearing down someone's faith, and that of trying to enhance their spirituality. I'd day that pro-LDS approaches can do both. My attitude is that whenever advocating or opposing any faith, I should with humility remember I am treading on holy ground. Convictions are highly personal and sacred.

So if you go about truly trying to enhance the spiritual lives of your LDS loved ones while being respectful of the territory, also expecting respect for your own, you might have some good, even mutually edifying experiences.

if you feel you're already approaching it like this, but don't feel like you receive the same respect, imo all you can do is to keep loving and trying. But do give it time and space, we all need that.

Yes, I think the attitude is the key difference. Both are trying to sever people from their faith traditions, but there is a respectful approach and a disrespectful approach. 

[CV75]

4 hours ago, sjdawg said:

What is the difference between active members of the LDS Church promoting what they know and/or think they know to be true about the LDS faith and Ex-Mormons promoting what they know and/or think they know to be true about the LDS Faith?

It is a sincere question.   I know as an ex-mormon (technically I suppose just an inactive since I am still on the LDS records) I do feel like there is some difference but I'm not certain I can put my finger on why.   I know I go out of the way not to tell me family what I think about the LDS church on many topics.   Why do I feel an obligation to keep my mouth shut when my family feels no obligation to keep their beliefs to themselves?   Am I the only one who thinks this way? 

I think there's a difference in the social interactions, appropriately so, in standing for and standing against something. Standing for something engenders a confidence, especially when standing with a majority. Standing against something engenders a caution against potential contention, especially when standing with a minority or alone.

[Meadowchik]

2 hours ago, sjdawg said:

I think that is why I am hesitate to promote my disbelief of mormonism.  Mormonism did not make me happy and I don't believe in it but I don't want to tear down anyone's belief system.   If it makes them happy who am I to criticize?   I do, however, with that some of my family and friends were more respectful of my decision to leave.  The seem to take it as a personal insult to them directly.  

That--where you don't take differences of deep belief personally--is a hard wall to pass imo. When you find a gem who has matured that much, treasure them!

[rodheadlee]

4 hours ago, sjdawg said:

What is the difference between active members of the LDS Church promoting what they know and/or think they know to be true about the LDS faith and Ex-Mormons promoting what they know and/or think they know to be true about the LDS Faith?

 

It is a sincere question.   I know as an ex-mormon (technically I suppose just an inactive since I am still on the LDS records) I do feel like there is some difference but I'm not certain I can put my finger on why.   I know I go out of the way not to tell me family what I think about the LDS church on many topics.   Why do I feel an obligation to keep my mouth shut when my family feels no obligation to keep their beliefs to themselves?   Am I the only one who thinks this way?  

 

One group is building something, one group is tearing down something. One group believes in something, one group doesn't know what they believe in or believes in nothing regarding religion. I know it's not that simple. Life is complicated.

[Jeanne]

6 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

One group is building something, one group is tearing down something. One group believes in something, one group doesn't know what they believe in or believes in nothing regarding religion. I know it's not that simple. Life is complicated.

It is complicated; especially on whatever an ex-mormon shares or reveals can also be found on an LDS website.

[stemelbow]

5 hours ago, sjdawg said:

What is the difference between active members of the LDS Church promoting what they know and/or think they know to be true about the LDS faith and Ex-Mormons promoting what they know and/or think they know to be true about the LDS Faith?

 

It is a sincere question.   I know as an ex-mormon (technically I suppose just an inactive since I am still on the LDS records) I do feel like there is some difference but I'm not certain I can put my finger on why.   I know I go out of the way not to tell me family what I think about the LDS church on many topics.   Why do I feel an obligation to keep my mouth shut when my family feels no obligation to keep their beliefs to themselves?   Am I the only one who thinks this way?  

 

I'm saddened that people don't feel welcome to share openly and freely with each other, as it pertains to thoughts and feelings in their lives.  I dont' know your situation, but it's sad for me to think of families who are mostly LDS, sometimes.  The majority seem to really hold things over  heads of the unbelievers.  That's at least anecdotally, from what I've witnessed.  I'd much rather see families get to the point wherein each are free to openly discuss thoughts and feelings as it pertains life, politics, religion...all that.  It's been possible for some groups.  But, man, some crews have such harsh feelings for one or another and it really makes conversation strained. 

[Jane_Doe]

3 hours ago, sjdawg said:

I think that is why I am hesitate to promote my disbelief of mormonism.  Mormonism did not make me happy and I don't believe in it but I don't want to tear down anyone's belief system.   If it makes them happy who am I to criticize?   I do, however, with that some of my family and friends were more respectful of my decision to leave.  The seem to take it as a personal insult to them directly.  

I think if you were to promote your beliefs as they are now, that would be a good thing.  You've left Mormonism, rather than focus on the past, what do you find joy in now now?   Share that.

[Jeanne]

2 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

I think if you were to promote your beliefs as they are now, that would be a good thing.  You've left Mormonism, rather than focus on the past, what do you find joy in now now?   Share that.

But his (and mine) celebrate their joy in mormonism..often in rather aucious ways..why won't they just focus on their happiness and leave the preaching and admonitions to themselves?

Edited to add:  When I left mormonism, I had to move.  It was easier for my father to tell his bishop that he had no association with me. 

Edited January 23, 2017 by Jeanne

[rodheadlee]

49 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

It is complicated; especially on whatever an ex-mormon shares or reveals can also be found on an LDS website.

I can't help it. I recommend 20th Century Man too. 

 

Edited January 23, 2017 by rodheadlee

[bluebell]

4 hours ago, sjdawg said:

I think that is why I am hesitate to promote my disbelief of mormonism.  Mormonism did not make me happy and I don't believe in it but I don't want to tear down anyone's belief system.   If it makes them happy who am I to criticize?   I do, however, with that some of my family and friends were more respectful of my decision to leave.  The seem to take it as a personal insult to them directly.  

It's probably because it's hard not to take it personally when someone essentially says "You are wrong and I am right."  It doesn't really matter what the subject is.  We all tend to get our hackles up when someone tells us that we don't actually know what we believe we know.

[Sky]

It's hard because Mormons and ex-Mormons often live in alternate, diametrically opposed universes.  They have opposite versions of reality.  

The best way to bridge that gap is to try and listen to each other and love.  Doesn't necessarily mean we have to agree.  And none of us is perfect.  It takes effort from both sides.  It takes communication, and communication takes practice.  And practice takes time.  

When it's family members involved, it's definitely worth trying to make the effort.  But it has to come from both sides.  Nobody has ever converted another person to their beliefs by being a jerk!  

[Bernard Gui]

2 hours ago, Jeanne said:

But his (and mine) celebrate their joy in mormonism..often in rather aucious ways..why won't they just focus on their happiness and leave the preaching and admonitions to themselves?

Edited to add:  When I left mormonism, I had to move.  It was easier for my father to tell his bishop that he had no association with me. 

Why would the bishop need to hear that? 

[Bernard Gui]

8 hours ago, sjdawg said:

What is the difference between active members of the LDS Church promoting what they know and/or think they know to be true about the LDS faith and Ex-Mormons promoting what they know and/or think they know to be true about the LDS Faith?

 

It is a sincere question.   I know as an ex-mormon (technically I suppose just an inactive since I am still on the LDS records) I do feel like there is some difference but I'm not certain I can put my finger on why.   I know I go out of the way not to tell me family what I think about the LDS church on many topics.   Why do I feel an obligation to keep my mouth shut when my family feels no obligation to keep their beliefs to themselves?   Am I the only one who thinks this way?  

 

Having close family who can't keep their mouths shut, I would prefer the peaceful co-existence path. My test for truth is that if it leads to greater love for humanity, it is from God. I might be more interested in the anti-Mormon position if I were to observe an increase in love.

[cinepro]

3 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

One group is building something, one group is tearing down something. One group believes in something, one group doesn't know what they believe in or believes in nothing regarding religion. I know it's not that simple. Life is complicated.

Your statement assumes that "building something" is always good, and "tearing down something" (if that's even what it really is) is always bad.

Faithful membership in the LDS Church requires huge amounts of time, money and other forms of sacrifice.  If someone were dedicating their time and money to an organization that wasn't what it claimed to be, then there would be no greater form of compassion than to help them to see that this is the case. 

I've mentioned this before, but years ago I was in a ward with a member who was perpetrating a huge real estate scam.  A few other members of the ward worked for him and had become unknowingly entangled in the scam (he used their names and credit in some of the deals).  It all sounded very suspicious to me when they described what they were doing, but they were very well paid and weren't interested in even the slightest hint of skepticism about the legality or morality of the operation.

When the scam folded, these members lost everything.  I still remember the tearful testimony of one on the Sunday before he and his extended family moved out of their nice homes into a shared apartment.  They were totally wiped out.

Should I have been more forceful in trying to get these people to see that what they were doing was probably illegal, and at the very least very risky?  I wasn't a real estate tycoon, and they were "building something", whereas I would just have been "tearing down" their plan with no better alternative for them to get rich.

Obviously, I don't think the LDS Church is that kind of operation, but to ex-mormons, it is.  So from their perspective, it might be appropriate to "tear down" the false beliefs of LDS, and it might be morally justifiable, even  if it isn't "polite".

Edited January 23, 2017 by cinepro

[The Nehor]

When ex-Mormons call young men and women to go door to door while wearing nametags I will consider their missionary work of a similar caliber.  

[california boy]

I get a lot of questions about the church from my friends.  All of my close friends know that I used to be Mormon.  When we are out with someone that I don't know well, the number of kids I have and the fact that I married usually needs an explanation.  When I tell them I used to be Mormon, then everything fits into place pretty quickly.  Many know someone who is gay that used to be members of the church.  Sometimes the conversation turns to Mormon beliefs.  I staunchly defend the church when they have some misconception about it's teachings.  Believe me, there are a lot of misconceptions about what the church believes.  I tell them the positive things that many find in belonging to the church.  If they ask me what the church teaches about being gay, I tell them that the church expects gay members to be celibate for the rest of their lives.  And I also tell them how the church treats children of gay couples.  That usually  confirms what they think about the church's attitude towards gays.

Most people come into the discussion with a pretty bad image of the church.  I hope after talking to them, they have a more fair view of the church.  Prop 8 forever changed the attitudes that many people have about the church.  It was just such an aggressive attack on gays, it usually is a deal breaker for them ever being interested in finding out more.  I don't know what conversion rate is in California these days.  I know when I was on my mission, California missions were some of the top baptizing missions in the church.  My kids tell me that the wards in San Francisco are struggling.  I don't know about the rest of the Bay Area.  It would be interesting to learn if Prop 8 is still effecting church growth in California.  

[Jeanne]

2 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Why would the bishop need to hear that? 

According to my Dad's way of thinking...it would be a question posed for his Temple Recommend.

[Calm]

4 hours ago, Jeanne said:

But his (and mine) celebrate their joy in mormonism..often in rather aucious ways..why won't they just focus on their happiness and leave the preaching and admonitions to themselves?

Edited to add:  When I left mormonism, I had to move.  It was easier for my father to tell his bishop that he had no association with me. 

She didn't say don't share your current beliefs but just the good feelings, she said to share the beliefs that bring good feelings I believe...I am assuming she means positive beliefs as in "I believe in the goodness of humanity" for example and not "I believe atheism/Mormonism/whatever is a fraud" (which is active disbelief, imo, rather than active belief).

Edited January 23, 2017 by Calm

[Calm]

2 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Having close family who can't keep their mouths shut, I would prefer the peaceful co-existence path. My test for truth is that if it leads to greater love for humanity, it is from God. I might be more interested in the anti-Mormon position if I were to observe an increase in love.

I am not sure an "anti" position can function in that way.  There are good reasons to frame one's position as prolife and not antiabortion and, imo, to act on that difference, which is significant when addressed correctly (just slapping the label prolife on antiabortion beliefs and behaviors is not correct, imo).

Leaving behind the ex/post/antiMormon discussion and moving into current positive beliefs (evangelical, Catholic, humanism, etc.) in discussion while those who are LDS focus on the positive aspects of their faith provides a stronger conversational base, which can then be used to ground a discussion where disagreements come up without the destruction of the social and emotional connections between the individuals that most often happens when rejection or condemnation is the primary or sole focus.

[canard78]

6 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

I think if you were to promote your beliefs as they are now, that would be a good thing.  You've left Mormonism, rather than focus on the past, what do you find joy in now now?   Share that.

Yes, this is really good advice. 

I'm no longer Mormon, but I try to spend as little time as possible talking about my "post Mormon" status. 

Instead of looking backwards at my Mormon past I try to look forwards to my "working title" future. If I share something with an audience that includes Mormon friends, I try to dwell as little as possible on the Mormon past and more on the joys and delights of my present and future. Celebrating solstice, for example, with a mixed faith group was a recent positive that I felt happy sharing with my friends and family of all faiths. 

Having said that, I like discussing Mormonism with those who want to do so with me. Few of my believing friends show any sign of wanting to. I'm glad I've got a forum like this one where there are active, believing Mormons who are willing to have these sorts of conversations with the post-Mormon crowd. 

[The Nehor]

29 minutes ago, canard78 said:

Instead of looking backwards at my Mormon past I try to look forwards to my "working title" future.

Have you considered the advantages of conversion to radical fundamentalist Islam?

[rodheadlee]

4 hours ago, cinepro said:

Your statement assumes that "building something" is always good, and "tearing down something" (if that's even what it really is) is always bad.

Faithful membership in the LDS Church requires huge amounts of time, money and other forms of sacrifice.  If someone were dedicating their time and money to an organization that wasn't what it claimed to be, then there would be no greater form of compassion than to help them to see that this is the case. 

I've mentioned this before, but years ago I was in a ward with a member who was perpetrating a huge real estate scam.  A few other members of the ward worked for him and had become unknowingly entangled in the scam (he used their names and credit in some of the deals).  It all sounded very suspicious to me when they described what they were doing, but they were very well paid and weren't interested in even the slightest hint of skepticism about the legality or morality of the operation.

When the scam folded, these members lost everything.  I still remember the tearful testimony of one on the Sunday before he and his extended family moved out of their nice homes into a shared apartment.  They were totally wiped out.

Should I have been more forceful in trying to get these people to see that what they were doing was probably illegal, and at the very least very risky?  I wasn't a real estate tycoon, and they were "building something", whereas I would just have been "tearing down" their plan with no better alternative for them to get rich.

Obviously, I don't think the LDS Church is that kind of operation, but to ex-mormons, it is.  So from their perspective, it might be appropriate to "tear down" the false beliefs of LDS, and it might be morally justifiable, even  if it isn't "polite".

No, it doesn't and I didn't say that.