Losing Millennials

[Five Solas]

There’s some anecdotal evidence to suggest the LDS Church is particularly challenged attracting and retaining what demographers call the “Millennial Generation” (at least here in the United States).  A few weeks back I authored a thread about the decline of LDS in urban centers and quickly discovered the trend has a generational angle to it.  I won’t give it a full recap, but here in Seattle fully half the “Young Single Adult” wards (serving 18 – 31 year-olds) have been shuttered in the past 10 years (University 1st and University 4th—both gone, University 2nd and 3rd soldier on).  A number of other examples were given.  If you missed it, you can read it *here.* 

Among the ideas contributed on that thread was that Millennials disproportionately prefer “high density living that is more green” (green as in reducing one’s carbon footprint, not green as in suburban lawns).  By contrast, the LDS ideal for living looks a bit more like *this* (fast forward to see this LDS stalwart/example motoring about in his huge V-8 powered "Tundra" pickup truck w/ custom rims dispensing his good deeds).   Indeed, this video adds its own example to my thread (about 3 minutes in) as the patriarch laments his Millennial daughter did not share his LDS values and left the family (or was asked to leave).  The viewer can only hope she found her way to Seattle & now has a promising career at a local tech company. 

:0)

The most obvious place Millennial attrition would show up would be in the missionary numbers.  But with changes lowing the age in 2012, there’s a bubble that makes it difficult to discern any underlying trend.  
What do folks think?  Is the LDS Church out of step with Millennials?  Is there a potential issue here for the long-term health of the LDS Church?  Is there any way to test such a hypothesis?

I’ll throw in a little survey – I know we’ve got a least a couple Millennials on the board (Blue Dreams, Video Game Junkie).

--Erik

[carbon dioxide]

We live in a more wicked world and a world with more distractions.  I am surprised the Church as done as well as it has in the cesspool that the world is.  Noah did not find many converts in his time and our world is worse than what he had to deal with.  Yet we actually find some converts.  I don't think that means Noah was a crappy missionary but that it just been a miracle we have done as well as we have.  It is my personal belief that though the field was white and ready to harvest in the early days of the church, the field has largely turned brown and dying. 

Edited July 23, 2016 by carbon dioxide

[JLHPROF]

I don't think anyone can reasonably disagree with number 2.
I just don't think the fault in that lies with the Church.

[jkwilliams]

It has to do with the church having lost control of the narrative. 

Edited July 23, 2016 by jkwilliams

[carbon dioxide]

8 minutes ago, Five Solas said:

There’s some anecdotal evidence to suggest the LDS Church is particularly challenged attracting and retaining what demographers call the “Millennial Generation” (at least here in the United States).  A few weeks back I authored a thread about the decline of LDS in urban centers and quickly discovered the trend has a generational angle to it.  I won’t give it a full recap, but here in Seattle fully half the “Young Single Adult” wards (serving 18 – 31 year-olds) have been shuttered in the past 10 years (University 1st and University 4th—both gone, University 2nd and 3rd soldier on).  A number of other examples were given.  If you missed it, you can read it *here.* 

Among the ideas contributed on that thread was that Millennials disproportionately prefer “high density living that is more green” (green as in reducing one’s carbon footprint, not green as in suburban lawns).  By contrast, the LDS ideal for living looks a bit more like *this* (fast forward to see this LDS stalwart/example motoring about in his huge V-8 powered "Tundra" pickup truck w/ custom rims dispensing his good deeds).   Indeed, this video adds its own example to my thread (about 3 minutes in) as the patriarch laments his Millennial daughter did not share his LDS values and left the family (or was asked to leave).  The viewer can only hope she found her way to Seattle & now has a promising career at a local tech company. 

--Erik

First, when we speak of the Millennia" group, we really are speaking of western people and in particular Americans.  So much of what you cited probably does not apply to those outside the USA.  The Millennials in Africa or Latin America probably don't care that much about high density, going green living.  For me I don't know why anyone would want to live long term in high density areas.  Especially during a disaster that is the last place I want to be.  I am sure Seattle is a great place to be but when that 9.0 quake hits it, it will take decades to recover.  Many of these people will be forced to leave because their high density complexes will be condemned.

[The Nehor]

I don't think the situation has changed much in terms of actual belief. Instead I think it is becoming less likely to have little or no faith and remain culturally Mormon. When I was a teenager many of my friends did not really believe at all or just had no interest in religion but were active mostly for the social benefits. About 10 years ago they all dropped out.

I think it would be more accurate to suggest that it is less attractive to be a cultural Mormon which I agree with completely.

[carbon dioxide]

15 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

It has to do with the church having lost control of the narrative. 

This issue has been going on with most non-LDS Churches.  The Church seems to be doing better than a lot of them

Edited July 24, 2016 by carbon dioxide

[Rain]

As written I would have to agree with #2 since Millenials didn't exist in previous generations so it is going to be so very much harder to attract them.

Edited July 24, 2016 by Rain

[Jane_Doe]

14 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

This issue has been going on with most non-LDS Churches.  The Church seems to be doing better than a lot of them

Yep!

As a person who works with millennial's (age 16-26, and am 29 myself) this is a very broad sweeping trend: want to party all night, sleep all day, not listen to other people, not be committed (except to their phones), and generally fumble around doing their own thing.  Some of them grow out of it eventually, many not.  This is so much bigger than the LDS millennials only.  

[bluebell]

I was under the impression that all denominations were struggling to interest and keep millenials. Is that wrong?

[Calm]

45 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

First, when we speak of the Millennia" group, we really are speaking of western people and in particular Americans.  So much of what you cited probably does not apply to those outside the USA.  The Millennials in Africa or Latin America probably don't care that much about high density, going green living.

From what I have seen (which admittedly isn't much, I watch quite a bit of Asian TV and read a number of Asian American/Canadian blogs), Asia is having a significant cultural adjustment as well.  They are changing jobs much more often, seeking the fast track to running a company rather than the life long commitment of older generations.  They are also slower to purchase homes and such, in part because they see themselves as having less money, but also appear to be valuing experience over possessions.  Then there is the delay to marry or have children.

[jkwilliams]

2 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I was under the impression that all denominations were struggling to interest and keep millenials. Is that wrong?

I believe that is true. The numbers of kids going inactive when they leave home is increasing, and I believe that is one of the reasons for the change in missionary age. 

The big change I have noticed is in the increased exit of those who have served missions and married in the temple. I don't think that is related to the broader social trends. 

[Jeanne]

I believe religions in general are having a hard time  The mellenials are living in a world where they are more aware that it is religions that causing such chaos.  For all the big issues confronting most governments, religion is getting the blame.  That being said, I am with JK, the narrative, even if consistent at times, is even disagreed among generations of the Elders of the church.

[JLHPROF]

12 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

The big change I have noticed is in the increased exit of those who have served missions and married in the temple. I don't think that is related to the broader social trends. 

I think societal change is exactly the reason.  But perhaps not in the way of past societal changes.
This isn't a sign of society becoming more liberal and less conservative/traditional - the usual blame recipient. 
I think it's a sign of society becoming more bound and determined not to be codified, restricted, or labelled.  (Ironic given this thread title).  That was the societal change years ago.

Everyone is looking for "their own path", "their own joy", "what works for me".  Nobody seems more interested in what works for God.  It is ALL relative these days.
That's why the huge increase in non-denominational religious leanings.  The "just be a good person" and "love is all you need" false doctrine is absolutely everywhere.

[carbon dioxide]

14 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

I believe religions in general are having a hard time  The mellenials are living in a world where they are more aware that it is religions that causing such chaos.  For all the big issues confronting most governments, religion is getting the blame.  That being said, I am with JK, the narrative, even if consistent at times, is even disagreed among generations of the Elders of the church.

There is always a scapegoat for something.  I think many of them will find that leaving religion will not bring them more happiness in the long run and chaos comes from many places. As they get older and they see more of their friends die, they will return to religion.  Its hard to get excited about the idea of dying and ceasing to exist.

[The Nehor]

25 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Yep!

As a person who works with millennial's (age 16-26, and am 29 myself) this is a very broad sweeping trend: want to party all night, sleep all day, not listen to other people, not be committed (except to their phones), and generally fumble around doing their own thing.  Some of them grow out of it eventually, many not.  This is so much bigger than the LDS millennials only.  

So saith the elders of every generation in the history of the world.

“Our Earth is degenerate in these later days; there are signs that the world is speedily coming to an end; bribery and corruption are common; children no longer obey their parents; every man wants to write a book and the end of the world is evidently approaching.” Assyrian, 28th or 29th Century BC

“I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words. When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly disrespectful and impatient of restraint.” - Hesiod, Greece, 8th Century BC

"Children began to be the tyrants, not the slaves, of their households. They no longer rose from their seats when an elder entered the room; they contradicted their parents, chattered before company, gobbled up the dainties at table, and committed various offences against Hellenic tastes, such as crossing their legs. They tyrannised over the paidagogoi and schoolmasters." - Plato

“Our young men have grown slothful. There is not a single honorable occupation for which they will toil night and day. They sing and dance and grow effeminate and curl their hair and learn womanish tricks of speech; they are as languid as women and deck themselves out with unbecoming ornaments. Without strength, without energy, they add nothing during life to the gifts with which they were born — then they complain of their lot.” - Seneca, 1st Century, Rome

“The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have no respect for their parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as if they alone know everything and what passes for wisdom in us foolishness in them. As for the girls, they are foolish and immodest and unwomanly in speech, behavior, and dress.” Peter the Hermit, France, 11th Century

So either every generation in the history of the world is filled with horrid children that will ruin everything or older people are just universally grumpy and view their own youth with rose-colored glasses. I am betting on the latter.

[jkwilliams]

3 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

I think societal change is exactly the reason.  But perhaps not in the way of past societal changes.
This isn't a sign of society becoming more liberal and less conservative/traditional - the usual blame recipient. 
I think it's a sign of society becoming more bound and determined not to be codified, restricted, or labelled.  (Ironic given this thread title).  That was the societal change years ago.

Everyone is looking for "their own path", "their own joy", "what works for me".  Nobody seems more interested in what works for God.  It is ALL relative these days.
That's why the huge increase in non-denominational religious leanings.  The "just be a good person" and "love is all you need" false doctrine is absolutely everywhere.

That is not what I have seen in committed, active members leaving the church. For one thing, the costs of leaving at that point are enormous and far outweigh any desire to do their own thing. As long as church members believe this is the motivating factor, they won't be able to stem the tide of exits. 

To me, the most obvious problem is that people are leaving, and no one really cares why. It's just easier to assign a reason and move on. 

[Tacenda]

5 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

So saith the elders of every generation in the history of the world.

“Our Earth is degenerate in these later days; there are signs that the world is speedily coming to an end; bribery and corruption are common; children no longer obey their parents; every man wants to write a book and the end of the world is evidently approaching.” Assyrian, 28th or 29th Century BC

“I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words. When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly disrespectful and impatient of restraint.” - Hesiod, Greece, 8th Century BC

"Children began to be the tyrants, not the slaves, of their households. They no longer rose from their seats when an elder entered the room; they contradicted their parents, chattered before company, gobbled up the dainties at table, and committed various offences against Hellenic tastes, such as crossing their legs. They tyrannised over the paidagogoi and schoolmasters." - Plato

“Our young men have grown slothful. There is not a single honorable occupation for which they will toil night and day. They sing and dance and grow effeminate and curl their hair and learn womanish tricks of speech; they are as languid as women and deck themselves out with unbecoming ornaments. Without strength, without energy, they add nothing during life to the gifts with which they were born — then they complain of their lot.” - Seneca, 1st Century, Rome

“The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have no respect for their parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as if they alone know everything and what passes for wisdom in us foolishness in them. As for the girls, they are foolish and immodest and unwomanly in speech, behavior, and dress.” Peter the Hermit, France, 11th Century

So either every generation in the history of the world is filled with horrid children that will ruin everything or older people are just universally grumpy and view their own youth with rose-colored glasses. I am betting on the latter.

I'm glad I've seen examples of millennials that aren't this way at all, gives me hope. 

[jkwilliams]

4 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I'm glad I've seen examples of millennials that aren't this way at all, gives me hope. 

Me too. Not long ago I had lunch with a relative who served a mission, married a returned missionary in the temple, and was pretty much living the LDS dream. Figuring out the church was devastating to him, as his marriage almost broke up and his father pretty much won't talk to him. This is a good kid with a lot of integrity who went through hell, yet there are some who think he just took the easy way out. 

[The Nehor]

5 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

That is not what I have seen in committed, active members leaving the church. For one thing, the costs of leaving at that point are enormous and far outweigh any desire to do their own thing. As long as church members believe this is the motivating factor, they won't be able to stem the tide of exits. 

To me, the most obvious problem is that people are leaving, and no one really cares why. It's just easier to assign a reason and move on. 

Full-time Missionaries, Ward Mission member, Bishoprics, and many others seem to care a lot in my experience. I just spent the last year visiting a couple several times a month every to help them back and the whole ward rejoiced when they finally got to the Temple.

[jkwilliams]

Just now, The Nehor said:

Full-time Missionaries, Ward Mission member, Bishoprics, and many others seem to care a lot in my experience. I just spent the last year visiting a couple several times a month every to help them back and the whole ward rejoiced when they finally got to the Temple.

That's good to hear. My experience has been closer to what I see here: people find it much easier to assign motives. 

[Duncan]

I think we are losing the same but for different reasons. Back in the day nobody really talked historical problems, I think back then(late 1990's early 2000's) people went inactive for social reasons or no support from home, feelings of unworthiness 

[VideoGameJunkie]

I'm a millienial. You'll have a much better chance starting a religion based on yoga or zen with hangouts at lulumon athletica. And whole foods. Millennials are making churches out of new trends.

[The Nehor]

15 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

I'm a millienial. You'll have a much better chance starting a religion based on yoga or zen with hangouts at lulumon athletica. And whole foods. Millennials are making churches out of new trends.

So did my Generation X and all the generations before. The lyrics change but the music is still the same.

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, jkwilliams said:

That's good to hear. My experience has been closer to what I see here: people find it much easier to assign motives. 

I tried to figure out the motive for their leaving. It wasn't hard. They told me the partial truth and the rest came out later.