Devotion and Despair: The lonely struggle of a gay Mormon

[The Nehor]

44 minutes ago, rockpond said:

An example of official teachings that I imagine are tough to hear as a gay member:

"Every priesthood effort and every priesthood ordinance is intended to help Heavenly Father’s children be changed through the Atonement of Jesus Christ to become members of perfected family units. It follows that “the great work of every man is to believe the gospel, to keep the commandments, and to create and perfect an eternal family unit,” and to help others do the same.
        Since that is true, everything we do should have celestial marriage as its focus and purpose. That means we must strive to be sealed to an eternal companion in the temple of God. We must also encourage others to make and keep the covenants that bind a husband and wife together, with their family, in this life and in the world to come".

Pres Eyring, April 2016 Priesthood Session "Eternal Families" (emphasis added)

I also find it tough to hear.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, rockpond said:

An example of official teachings that I imagine are tough to hear as a gay member:

"Every priesthood effort and every priesthood ordinance is intended to help Heavenly Father’s children be changed through the Atonement of Jesus Christ to become members of perfected family units. It follows that “the great work of every man is to believe the gospel, to keep the commandments, and to create and perfect an eternal family unit,” and to help others do the same.
        Since that is true, everything we do should have celestial marriage as its focus and purpose. That means we must strive to be sealed to an eternal companion in the temple of God. We must also encourage others to make and keep the covenants that bind a husband and wife together, with their family, in this life and in the world to come".

Pres Eyring, April 2016 Priesthood Session "Eternal Families" (emphasis added)

There are massive amounts of tough things to hear as a member for anyone, I suspect.  If hearing such things trigger suicidal thoughts, there is something else in the mix.

[rockpond]

6 hours ago, Calm said:

There are massive amounts of tough things to hear as a member for anyone, I suspect.  If hearing such things trigger suicidal thoughts, there is something else in the mix.

There are definitely other things in the mix.  But I believe teachings like these, for believing gay members, contribute to the despair and loneliness described by the OP. 

[california boy]

14 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Only a small percentage of humanity has ever found happiness in this life.  For most, life has been "nasty, brutish, and short."  Those of us in the privileged modern West often forget that.

Only a very very small portion ever find the church. I just thought living the gospel brought you joy on earth. Guess I was wrong. Thanks for the correction  It was an honest mistake. I actually have no idea why I thought that. I guess it is all anout the next life. 

Edited July 26, 2016 by california boy

[california boy]

8 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I also find it tough to hear.

Nehor for as lonely of life you live maybe you were suppose to have been born gay???  then it would be normal

 

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, california boy said:

Nehor for as lonely of life you live maybe you were suppose to have been born gay???  then it would be normal

 

It was a near thing. I would probably be classified as bi. Probably about a 1.75 on the Kinsey scale.

[kllindley]

2 hours ago, california boy said:

Only a very very small portion ever find the church. I just thought living the gospel brought you joy on earth. Guess I was wrong. Thanks for the correction  It was an honest mistake. I actually have no idea why I thought that. I guess it is all anout the next life. 

I don't think you were wrong.  I don't believe it is all about the next life.  While I do think that in general the purpose of the fall and mortality is to make possible an eternal fullness of joy, I also believe that we are meant to "find joy in the journey" as well.  

[Tacenda]

Duplicate

Edited August 3, 2016 by Tacenda

[Tacenda]

I'm having difficulty with the above post, this is the rest of my post, Alex wrote this along with the video and posted it on FB....

I dedicate this song to any Latter-day Saint who experiences same-sex attraction who often feel caught in between two worlds, and have received hurtful and insensitive things said to them by other saints.

I dedicate this song to the LGBT community who have to deal with emotional challenges at school college, at work and in their families.

I dedicate this song to people of disability who have and are still being bullied & mistreated for being who they are.

I dedicate this song to every person of color who is viewed as being less than equal to another due to pigment of skin.

I dedicate this song to every Caucasian person who is automatically tainted with the same brush of racism because they are white.

I dedicate this song to every law enforcement officer who is wrongfully judged and even killed simply because of their uniform.

I dedicate this song to those who fight injustice everywhere especially when it's unpopular to do so.

I dedicate this song to all those who are persecuted and murdered for their religious beliefs.

I dedicate this song to those who are ridiculed for supporting the constitution, who remind others of the part that says "ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL, that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"

We All deserve that gift!
LOVE STILL CONQUERS ALL!!
Indeed, we ALL bleed the same.
Please share, like, comment. Let's dialogue!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O874SCYMCXg

Edited August 3, 2016 by Tacenda

[Meadowchik]

On Monday, July 25, 2016 at 4:06 PM, california boy said:

Thanks for your take on that scripture. In all of the countless times I have read that scripture I always thought it met in this life and that is what made it do profound for me. I guess I assume everyone believes heaven will be a place of joy. But being in tune with Gid while on earth can bring you joy in this life. Now I am not sure that is what it means

I think of Jesus speaking of his kingdom being here and now, that life eternal starts now, that there is joy in nearness to God and we can experience it starting now.

[jkwilliams]

On 7/25/2016 at 1:52 PM, Scott Lloyd said:

So there you have it. One cannot publicly disapprove of homosexual behavior without being seen as a contributor to suicide.

Such is the tyranny of political correctness that hallmarks our age.

It's an interesting dilemma, IMO. How does one express love and acceptance for their child without necessarily condoning their lifestyle choices? Is the gay child and his or her partner to be involved in family activities? For that matter, is the partner accepted as a part of the family? Suicide is more likely when there is serious rejection of the child--that's been shown over and over statistically. So, how does one show love and acceptance without embracing the child's decisions? There has to be a middle ground, I would think. 

To me, it's no different from a child living with a heterosexual partner. My brother, for example, lived with his future wife for a couple of years before they married. Obviously, my parents disapproved, and everyone understood that. But she wasn't excluded from visiting my parents' home or attending family gatherings such as holidays and reunions. Seems like a reasonable compromise. The wrong way to do it, IMO, is what my aunt did when my cousin came out as gay. He had expected weeping and wailing, and she didn't disappoint, but she told him he had given himself to the devil and was not her son anymore. Not surprisingly, they didn't speak to each other for more than a year, and he dealt with some severe depression. They eventually patched things up, and my aunt pretty much takes the same attitude with his partner that my parents took with my brother's wife.

Funny story: A few  years ago, my mom called me and said my cousin, who is a year younger than I am, was down from San Francisco visiting them. She said, "He brought his partner with him, a Chinese man." I said, "That's nice. I hope you're enjoying the visit." She replied, "But he's living with a man! Did you know he was gay?" I said, yes, of course I knew he was gay. "How long have you known?" Mind you, my cousin was in his late 40s at the time of this phone call. I said, "Uh, since I was 15 or so." My cousin is the stereotypical flamboyant, effeminate gay man and had moved away from Utah to San Francisco many years ago, and yet my mother was completely oblivious.

[jkwilliams]

Speaking of "living in sin," it seems like living with a member of the same sex is treated quite differently than living with a member of the opposite sex. Is there a reason for that? 

[Glenn101]

4 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

Speaking of "living in sin," it seems like living with a member of the same sex is treated quite differently than living with a member of the opposite sex. Is there a reason for that? 

What do you mean? The results would be excommunication in either case.

Glenn

[jkwilliams]

2 minutes ago, Glenn101 said:

What do you mean? The results would be excommunication in either case.

Glenn

I was thinking more in terms of how people discuss the two situations. One rarely hears of heterosexual cohabitation as akin to crack addiction, or as a perversion, abomination, or apostasy, as I've heard on this board. And children of straight parents living together are not subject to any restrictions on becoming members of the church. So, no, I don't think they are treated the same. 

[Glenn101]

27 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

I was thinking more in terms of how people discuss the two situations. One rarely hears of heterosexual cohabitation as akin to crack addiction, or as a perversion, abomination, or apostasy, as I've heard on this board. And children of straight parents living together are not subject to any restrictions on becoming members of the church. So, no, I don't think they are treated the same. 

Straight unmarried parents. You are conflating two different situations with straight unmarried parents and SSM couple who marry. Maybe you consider it a distinction without a difference. But there is a difference. I am not going to go further with this so as not to derail the thread. I will just note that we disagree.

Glenn

[jkwilliams]

3 minutes ago, Glenn101 said:

Straight unmarried parents. You are conflating two different situations with straight unmarried parents and SSM couple who marry. Maybe you consider it a distinction without a difference. But there is a difference. I am not going to go further with this so as not to derail the thread. I will just note that we disagree.

Glenn

Fair enough. In either situation, the parents are doing something that is incompatible with the teachings of the church and that heterosexual marriage is not required. Yes, I'm aware there are differences, but the rationale was supposed to be that children would be getting conflicting messages at home and at church, and that is true in either situation. 

[california boy]

It certainly was handled differently in my family. It has been about 16 year since I told my family I was gay. During that time I was never invited to a family reunion, a missionary farewell, a baptism, a holiday gathering. Nothing. Only on the last year or so has my family reconnect with me. This 4th of July was the first time I was invited to participate. And this year is the first time my family has met my partner of 8 years. Things change.  Sometimes it just takes time. I always tried to remember how difficult it was for me to deal with being gay

during this same time period another family member started living with a guy. No one missed a beat. She was included in every family activity and strongly encouraged to participate.  Yeah.  Not the same. 

[Glenn101]

2 hours ago, jkwilliams said:

It's an interesting dilemma, IMO. How does one express love and acceptance for their child without necessarily condoning their lifestyle choices? Is the gay child and his or her partner to be involved in family activities? For that matter, is the partner accepted as a part of the family? Suicide is more likely when there is serious rejection of the child--that's been shown over and over statistically. So, how does one show love and acceptance without embracing the child's decisions? There has to be a middle ground, I would think. 

That is a situation with which my wife and I have been struggling for these many years. Not long before we were married, one of her children came out to her as being gay. She is not a "woman of the world" and had no idea. My wife is a very devout member of the church and she loves her children as deeply as any person I have ever known. But, in short, she did not disown him. Pretty much from the first, we had a conversation about the situation where we came to an understanding. He knows the LS theology as he was a member at one time. He understood that we accepted and believe the LDS teachings on chastity. But we also let him know that we loved him and were not going to shun him or disrespect him. I developed a very good relationship with him. We visited him and his partner several times over the years and they would visit with us.

That situation continued for fifteen years. Then an incident occurred that changed all of that for him. It was not something that my wife or I had any control over. Yet, for some reason, he blamed my wife and cut off relations with us. That has caused my wife as much emotional pain as the original disclosure.

For this situation and similar situations, I believe that both sides have to respect the beliefs and feelings of the other. Both sides should be willing to forgive, especially when no offense was meant or in actuality committed. There is much more to it than that. But my wife and I do not know wherein we committed an offense.

Glenn

[jkwilliams]

13 minutes ago, Glenn101 said:

That is a situation with which my wife and I have been struggling for these many years. Not long before we were married, one of her children came out to her as being gay. She is not a "woman of the world" and had no idea. My wife is a very devout member of the church and she loves her children as deeply as any person I have ever known. But, in short, she did not disown him. Pretty much from the first, we had a conversation about the situation where we came to an understanding. He knows the LS theology as he was a member at one time. He understood that we accepted and believe the LDS teachings on chastity. But we also let him know that we loved him and were not going to shun him or disrespect him. I developed a very good relationship with him. We visited him and his partner several times over the years and they would visit with us.

That situation continued for fifteen years. Then an incident occurred that changed all of that for him. It was not something that my wife or I had any control over. Yet, for some reason, he blamed my wife and cut off relations with us. That has caused my wife as much emotional pain as the original disclosure.

For this situation and similar situations, I believe that both sides have to respect the beliefs and feelings of the other. Both sides should be willing to forgive, especially when no offense was meant or in actuality committed. There is much more to it than that. But my wife and I do not know wherein we committed an offense.

Glenn

I'm sorry to hear that. I can't comment on your personal situation, but yes, respect, tolerance, and forgiveness run both ways. 

[rockpond]

30 minutes ago, california boy said:

It certainly was handled differently in my family. It has been about 16 year since I told my family I was gay. During that time I was never invited to a family reunion, a missionary farewell, a baptism, a holiday gathering. Nothing. Only on the last year or so has my family reconnect with me. This 4th of July was the first time I was invited to participate. And this year is the first time my family has met my partner of 8 years. Things change.  Sometimes it just takes time. I always tried to remember how difficult it was for me to deal with being gay

during this same time period another family member started living with a guy. No one missed a beat. She was included in every family activity and strongly encouraged to participate.  Yeah.  Not the same. 

I'm glad your family is (slowly) coming around.  

[Glenn101]

38 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

I'm sorry to hear that. I can't comment on your personal situation, but yes, respect, tolerance, and forgiveness run both ways. 

It is a tough situation on both sides for so many. And there are many who are trying to remain true to their beliefs and show love and respect.

Glenn

[jkwilliams]

15 minutes ago, Glenn101 said:

It is a tough situation on both sides for so many. And there are many who are trying to remain true to their beliefs and show love and respect.

Glenn

It's a difficult position to be in. I'm very sorry that it has been so painful for you and your family. Maybe I'm a naive optimist, but I believe that love usually wins out in the end if we keep at it.

[california boy]

1 hour ago, rockpond said:

I'm glad your family is (slowly) coming around.  

Thanks. I am thankful for the change in heart. It could be worse. After my excommunication one of the high council asked if he could have lunch with me. I was glad to meet with him. He told me he had a gay brother who had come out 24 years ago. They were just barely starting to have some contact with him. He said he really regretted how he had treated his brother. Hopefully others can learn from some of this. 

[USU78]

On 7/26/2016 at 6:31 AM, rockpond said:

There are definitely other things in the mix.  But I believe teachings like these, for believing gay members, contribute to the despair and loneliness described by the OP. 

Your solution is to extirpate such things?

[rockpond]

4 minutes ago, USU78 said:

Your solution is to extirpate such things?

That would be above my pay grade.