jkwilliams Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 4 minutes ago, rockpond said: It might be hard for someone to feel loved by you when you are comparing their marriage to the procurement and use of cocaine. Yeah, I've heard homosexuality being compared to alcoholism, pedophilia, pyromania, and mental illness. On this board, same-sex marriage has been called an abomination, perverted, deviant, disgusting, and sick, among other things. I suspect people can be forgiven for not feeling loved by people who say such things. 1
Gray Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 16 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: Yeah, I've heard homosexuality being compared to alcoholism, pedophilia, pyromania, and mental illness. On this board, same-sex marriage has been called an abomination, perverted, deviant, disgusting, and sick, among other things. I suspect people can be forgiven for not feeling loved by people who say such things. I suspect if someone were to turn around and use those words to describe Mormons, they might understand why those words are an impediment to expressing love. 1
jkwilliams Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 1 minute ago, Gray said: I suspect if someone were to turn around and use those words to describe Mormons, they might understand why those words are an impediment to expressing love. Mormons rightly get upset when people say they aren't Christians, and yet, more times than I can count, those making that accusation deny they are insulting or judging, but are "just stating the facts."
Scott Lloyd Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 35 minutes ago, rockpond said: One cannot mention that suicide of a loved one without it being "pulling the suicide card"? She was sharing her experience and encouraging love. I didn't set you up at all. I asked a question because I was sincerely curious as to your example. You chose your response and I assume it is an accurate reflection of your feelings but you can change your response if you'd like. Never mind. I'm disengaging from this conversation. The environment here is too hostile. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 28 minutes ago, Gray said: I suspect if someone were to turn around and use those words to describe Mormons, they might understand why those words are an impediment to expressing love. One question, then I'm out: Do you have to approve of crack cocaine abuse to show love to those who are thus abusing it?
TheSkepticChristian Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: Never mind. I'm disengaging from this conversation. The environment here is too hostile. You have to understand that people are very mad that our church gets involved in politics too much. I think our tax-exempt church shouldn't have an opinion about the legalization of gay marriage. Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world" Our church needs to stay out of politics. Edited July 25, 2016 by TheSkepticChristian
TheSkepticChristian Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: One question, then I'm out: Do you have to approve of crack cocaine abuse to show love to those who are thus abusing it? I think our country needs to legalize all drugs because the war on drugs does more harm than good. There is evidence that substance abuse causes a lot of damage, where is the evidence that gay marriage also causes damage? 7 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said: You have to understand that people are very mad that our church gets involved in politics too much. I think our tax-exempt church shouldn't have an opinion about the legalization of gay marriage. Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world" Our church needs to stay out of politics. Edited July 25, 2016 by TheSkepticChristian
Scott Lloyd Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 2 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said: I think our country needs to legalize all drugs because the war on drugs does more harm than good. That's not what I asked.
TheSkepticChristian Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: That's not what I asked. Answer is NO, you don't have to approve substance abuse. However, there is evidence that substance abuse causes a lot of damage, where is the evidence that gay marriage also causes damage? Edited July 25, 2016 by TheSkepticChristian
thatjimguy Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 3 hours ago, The Nehor said: 3 hours ago, The Nehor said: It is light. My spiritual obligations to God weigh less heavily on me then duty to others, my employer, loneliness from being single, etc. it is just not the only home I wear. Ok so maybe you could give more light on the subject then... What is it about LDS thinking that makes it so stressful that suicide is a possible answer to some? I've heard critics talk of us having an "impossible gospel". Is it LDS society that has it wrong? If so, what are we missing in the scriptures or teachings that would tell us to "lighten up"?
Calm Posted July 25, 2016 Author Posted July 25, 2016 3 hours ago, The Nehor said: Yes, but I am going there. One is more likely to get somewhere by working towards that goal than by not.
Calm Posted July 25, 2016 Author Posted July 25, 2016 1 minute ago, thatjimguy said: What is it about LDS thinking that makes it so stressful that suicide is a possible answer to some? Why do you assume it is LDS thinking that leads people to think this way? Our suicide rate would be higher, not lower than the general population if this was so. It is more likely given the uncommonness of suicide that it is in spite of LDS thinking that suicide happens. 3
The Nehor Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 10 minutes ago, thatjimguy said: Ok so maybe you could give more light on the subject then... What is it about LDS thinking that makes it so stressful that suicide is a possible answer to some? I've heard critics talk of us having an "impossible gospel". Is it LDS society that has it wrong? If so, what are we missing in the scriptures or teachings that would tell us to "lighten up"? The thing they are missing is often Christ. The commandments alone lead to despair. Well, unless you are an idiot and think you are keeping them all perfectly but they are deranged. After a screwup I can pray and get consolation that everything is going to turn out okay. 1
The Nehor Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 11 minutes ago, Calm said: One is more likely to get somewhere by working towards that goal than by not. No, I mean if I die now I am good. I will try to grow more here but whether I die crossing the street today hit by a distracted and zealous Pokemon hunter or die thirty years from now as a sacrifical victim as the fascist Cult of Trump kills thousands in the name of dark gods to bring back "The only true conservative candidate" will not matter. 1
BlueDreams Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 On July 23, 2016 at 11:46 PM, california boy said: My family was one of those perfect Mormon families. We all seemed to be going through life without any major difficulties. We would get together and everyone would talk about how life is just perfect. Kids were perfect. No one had any problems. Then when I came out to my family, one by one my siblings came to me and confided their biggest secret. One sister in law told me how she battled depression. Another sister talked about her marriage that was just a shell of what it appeared to be. Another told me how she battled never being perfect enough. It was like me coming out and revealing a life long struggle opened the floodgates for others to share their own flaws. I think there is a lot of pressure in the church to appear to have the perfect life. Perhaps that is one of the reasons some feel so desperate when their life is one of quiet desperation. 2 small things. I think people often get the church and family/ethnic culture confused. I don't get that message personally from the larger church, though I do see that a good amount on the smaller scale. For example my family does not live up to that. We get to reunions and gab about everything under the sun. emotional turmoil is commonly laid out and talked among us all the time (I had probably 4-5 conversations about people's personal/relational probs in a 24 hr period...mostly with men). As is politics, world events, religion...you know basically everything that's "impolite" to talk about at the dinner table. I'm reactively less sharing because my mother over shared growing up. You can also see these differences in meeting or wards that have different ethnic backgrounds. 14 hours ago, california boy said: Oh I never knew that. I.thought we were promised happiness on earth too. Am I rare in finding happiness here I personally think it's a bit of both. But the joy is not completed until the life to come. Personally I've found that joy is something different that happiness and can be more prolong. As is peace. For me now it is not necessarily and either or experience. With luv, BD 1
Jeanne Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 1 hour ago, TheSkepticChristian said: You have to understand that people are very mad that our church gets involved in politics too much. I think our tax-exempt church shouldn't have an opinion about the legalization of gay marriage. Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world" Our church needs to stay out of politics. I am giving you a rep for this.
USU78 Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 5 minutes ago, Jeanne said: I am giving you a rep for this. You agree with Skeptic, then, that religious people, both individually and corporately, should be excluded from the public square? That their views on matters of public interest are of no interest? That only the secular humanist and the secular misanthropist need be consulted on matters of public policy? 2
Jeanne Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 3 minutes ago, USU78 said: You agree with Skeptic, then, that religious people, both individually and corporately, should be excluded from the public square? That their views on matters of public interest are of no interest? That only the secular humanist and the secular misanthropist need be consulted on matters of public policy? They matter...they can vote...but don't make a vote because the church says so....and don' vote for something in Utah because half of the legislation is LDS.
Calm Posted July 25, 2016 Author Posted July 25, 2016 1 hour ago, The Nehor said: No, I mean if I die now I am good. I will try to grow more here but whether I die crossing the street today hit by a distracted and zealous Pokemon hunter or die thirty years from now as a sacrifical victim as the fascist Cult of Trump kills thousands in the name of dark gods to bring back "The only true conservative candidate" will not matter. I was more responding to the idea of why bother at all working towards the CK and using your post just to link into that conversation.
TheSkepticChristian Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 (edited) 21 minutes ago, USU78 said: You agree with Skeptic, then, that religious people, both individually and corporately, should be excluded from the public square? That their views on matters of public interest are of no interest? That only the secular humanist and the secular misanthropist need be consulted on matters of public policy? cut the crap would you? THAT IS NOT WHAT I SAID! I am tired that people like you always misrepresent what I say, STOP TRYING TO PAINT ME as the evil liberal atheist that persecutes Christians. Edited July 25, 2016 by TheSkepticChristian
USU78 Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 15 minutes ago, Jeanne said: They matter...they can vote...but don't make a vote because the church says so....and don' vote for something in Utah because half of the legislation is LDS. Your position is incoherent as expressed. Please explain what the parameters are of permissible Mormon public involvement in your universe. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 16 minutes ago, Jeanne said: They matter...they can vote...but don't make a vote because the church says so....and don' vote for something in Utah because half of the legislation is LDS. So a person is not allowed to consider the position of the Church as he makes his deliberations as a voter? But, presumably, it's OK to consider the opinions of friends in your book club or guys you shoot pool with at the corner bar? 1
TheSkepticChristian Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: So a person is not allowed to consider the position of the Church as he makes his deliberations as a voter? In many Muslims countries it is illegal for women to show their hair. In many countries it is illegal for a 10 year old that was raped to have an abortion. In many countries gays are executed. Religion seriously needs to stay out of politics! especially if it is tax-exempt! If you only have religious reasons for a political position, it is best not to vote. Remember, Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world". Just live and let live! Edited July 25, 2016 by TheSkepticChristian
USU78 Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 11 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said: cut the crap would you? THAT IS NOT WHAT I SAID! I am tired that people like you always misrepresent what I say, STOP TRYING TO PAINT ME as the evil liberal atheist that persecutes Christians. Then stop saying Mormons, either individually or corporately, should be prohibited from participating in the public square. 1
Jeanne Posted July 25, 2016 Posted July 25, 2016 7 minutes ago, USU78 said: Your position is incoherent as expressed. Please explain what the parameters are of permissible Mormon public involvement in your universe. What they think and what they want in the political arena can be voiced by their individual votes..or participation that has nothing to do with the church. They have their own minds and they don't need the approval of Elders to vote their own conscience. I don't mind individual participation..but not as a corporation of the church.
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