RevTestament Posted July 9, 2016 Posted July 9, 2016 On 7/7/2016 at 4:21 PM, Jeanne said: None. Absolutely none! Who has to have a fact on that? They go to school together..they play together..and one group gets to be baptzied..and the other doesn't..Are kids stupid? Right of the bat they are understanding a difference that shouldn't be there..and if they are taught at home the " whys why fores' then there grows another stigma taught that hurts and LDS child..to think they are better than...or more special than.. When they all grow up..they realize the loss of good friendships and what it costs to be so precious..so special in a world where we are all the same! I say this because I was one of those special kids..who thought I was better than anyone because I was baptized in the true church. did you grow up in Utah or Idaho Jeanne? While you may have a decade on me, I definitely did not limit my friends based upon my religion, nor was I taught that I was better than anyone else. That would be a limiting factor, but I believe a poor way to raise a child. While I may not agree with the policy regarding gay children, I do understand that children can be subjected to discrimination within the family because of religion. I saw this with my own family when one of us wanted to remain Baptist and was on the receiving end of unjustified anger. To assume that gay parents will not give their baptised child any grief would be a mistake when so many gays are against the Church as evidenced in demonstrations. 2
RevTestament Posted July 9, 2016 Posted July 9, 2016 48 minutes ago, consiglieri said: Overqualified. Proverbs 16:18 18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.
consiglieri Posted July 9, 2016 Posted July 9, 2016 31 minutes ago, rodheadlee said: How ironic, we cry for revelation and when we get it, we reject it. Meanwhile civil war has broken out in the US but no one seems to notice. I think the Cardston Temple Prophecy is well on it's way to being fulfilled. We reap what we sew. Restricting children of gay parents from ordinances is obviously a more pressing issue.
consiglieri Posted July 9, 2016 Posted July 9, 2016 21 minutes ago, RevTestament said: Proverbs 16:18 18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall. Matthew 24:24 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Popular Post JLHPROF Posted July 9, 2016 Popular Post Posted July 9, 2016 Just now, consiglieri said: Restricting children of gay parents from ordinances is obviously a more pressing issue. Considering how many "progressives" question the rightfulness of baptism at 8 anyway and think kids should be adults to choose a religion, I don't see how they can have a problem with this. And waiting until adulthood makes even MORE sense when the minor child is being taught one thing at home and another at Church. When there is no contradiction for them they may not need to wait, but when they are being taught one thing at Church and another at home that contradiction is the real pressing issue. 5
Jeanne Posted July 9, 2016 Posted July 9, 2016 56 minutes ago, RevTestament said: did you grow up in Utah or Idaho Jeanne? While you may have a decade on me, I definitely did not limit my friends based upon my religion, nor was I taught that I was better than anyone else. That would be a limiting factor, but I believe a poor way to raise a child. While I may not agree with the policy regarding gay children, I do understand that children can be subjected to discrimination within the family because of religion. I saw this with my own family when one of us wanted to remain Baptist and was on the receiving end of unjustified anger. To assume that gay parents will not give their baptised child any grief would be a mistake when so many gays are against the Church as evidenced in demonstrations. I grew up in Utah. Per..my devout father, I was not allowed to be friends with or associate outside of my religion. And...rightully so..because I was special ya know..and on top of that, I was born in this dispensation..saved for the last of times!
ladyshanae Posted July 9, 2016 Posted July 9, 2016 16 minutes ago, Jeanne said: I grew up in Utah. Per..my devout father, I was not allowed to be friends with or associate outside of my religion. And...rightully so..because I was special ya know..and on top of that, I was born in this dispensation..saved for the last of times! Yikes! I wouldn't have had many friends if that had been a rule when I was growing up! I know my parents trusted the other LDS kids/families more quickly, but I was never forbidden from friendships with anyone. This was especially true after we moved to Ohio where there were only 11 LDS kids in my entire high school. I don't think this is the norm, but I only briefly lived in Utah to finish up schooling, so maybe it's a Utah thing? I just didn't know anyone growing up who had rules like that, regardless of religion. 4
Jeanne Posted July 9, 2016 Posted July 9, 2016 6 minutes ago, ladyshanae said: Yikes! I wouldn't have had many friends if that had been a rule when I was growing up! I know my parents trusted the other LDS kids/families more quickly, but I was never forbidden from friendships with anyone. This was especially true after we moved to Ohio where there were only 11 LDS kids in my entire high school. I don't think this is the norm, but I only briefly lived in Utah to finish up schooling, so maybe it's a Utah thing? I just didn't know anyone growing up who had rules like that, regardless of religion. yeah..probably not the norm. But it was ingrained. Lived in a very tiny town..anyone outside the LDS ward was frowned upon. I am glad things have changed since then. My Dad was very strict. I lost out on some really good friends...funny that he didn't see this as a missionary opportunity. But he came to religion late..and was way too protective.
Popular Post Calm Posted July 9, 2016 Popular Post Posted July 9, 2016 1 hour ago, ladyshanae said: Yikes! I wouldn't have had many friends if that had been a rule when I was growing up! I know my parents trusted the other LDS kids/families more quickly, but I was never forbidden from friendships with anyone. This was especially true after we moved to Ohio where there were only 11 LDS kids in my entire high school. I don't think this is the norm, but I only briefly lived in Utah to finish up schooling, so maybe it's a Utah thing? I just didn't know anyone growing up who had rules like that, regardless of religion. My husband is from Orem, eight kid family. Not in any way taught this. Had nonmember friends. When I was in Utah going to elementary and Middle School for several months (at two different times due to moving) no one ever instructed me to even ask if kids were LDS or not or hinted there was any concern. My mom always pushed me to make friends with everyone and there was never any pressure or help for that matter to make friends with LDS. Up in Canada there were some Asian kids who were told by their parents not to associate with whites because they were lazy and stupid while they themselves were meant for better things. It was a huge problem in my son's high school. When we were in Russia, some parents pulled their kids away from even talking to us and we were constantly being given the message about how Russians were superior to the rest of the world. I have no doubt it happens among LDS because it happens everywhere. I see no evidence it happens more and given our leaders teach specifically against this, I see that as evidence it might happen less. 7
bluebell Posted July 9, 2016 Posted July 9, 2016 2 hours ago, Jeanne said: I grew up in Utah. Per..my devout father, I was not allowed to be friends with or associate outside of my religion. And...rightully so..because I was special ya know..and on top of that, I was born in this dispensation..saved for the last of times! That's crazy. Growing up my best friends weren't members and half of my kids' friends right now aren't either. Half of the boys my middle boy's age on our street aren't members and all the boys (members or not) play together. That includes sleepovers. I grew up in northern wyoming and we currently live in Utah. 1
Popular Post bluebell Posted July 9, 2016 Popular Post Posted July 9, 2016 36 minutes ago, Calm said: My husband is from Orem, eight kid family. Not in any way taught this. Had nonmember friends. When I was in Utah going to elementary and Middle School for several months (at two different times due to moving) no one ever instructed me to even ask if kids were LDS or not or hinted there was any concern. My mom always pushed me to make friends with everyone and there was never any pressure or help for that matter to make friends with LDS. Up in Canada there were some Asian kids who were told by their parents not to associate with whites because they were lazy and stupid while they themselves were meant for better things. It was a huge problem in my son's high school. When we were in Russia, some parents pulled their kids away from even talking to us and we were constantly being given the message about how Russians were superior to the rest of the world. I have no doubt it happens among LDS because it happens everywhere. I see no evidence it happens more and given our leaders teach specifically against this, I see that as evidence it might happen less. I think some people have a hard time separating "things my crazy parents said or did that they blamed on the church" and "actual church teachings and culture". 7
UtahTexan Posted July 10, 2016 Posted July 10, 2016 17 hours ago, ttribe said: I think you are confusing him with me. I'm the one who kept having to remind you I am not an attorney; I'm a forensic accountant who frequently works as an expert witness. Consig is most definitely an attorney. I know his real life identity and know that he has his own law firm. Get your facts straight. I said that because: 1. he did not know basic things an attorney should know 2. He did not understand trial evidence 3. He stated to me he was not an attorney If he really is, I would be incredibly surprised....and I would be apologetic
ttribe Posted July 10, 2016 Posted July 10, 2016 21 minutes ago, CountryBoy said: I said that because: 1. he did not know basic things an attorney should know 2. He did not understand trial evidence 3. He stated to me he was not an attorney If he really is, I would be incredibly surprised....and I would be apologetic Well, I'm not lying to you when I tell you I know his real life identity and that I know he has his own law firm. So, perhaps, you do owe him an apology,
Tacenda Posted July 10, 2016 Author Posted July 10, 2016 8 hours ago, Jeanne said: yeah..probably not the norm. But it was ingrained. Lived in a very tiny town..anyone outside the LDS ward was frowned upon. I am glad things have changed since then. My Dad was very strict. I lost out on some really good friends...funny that he didn't see this as a missionary opportunity. But he came to religion late..and was way too protective. I read on FB today, someone needed a recommendation on a good eye doctor. Well one of the responses was that they knew a good one who was LDS they recommended. So I think being LDS, gives precedence. It may be a Utah thing. 1
UtahTexan Posted July 10, 2016 Posted July 10, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, ttribe said: Well, I'm not lying to you when I tell you I know his real life identity and that I know he has his own law firm. So, perhaps, you do owe him an apology, Well....since he said he wasn't...had trouble with evidence.....I can't. But thanks. Regardless, this should be handled privately. I have messaged him Anyway...back to the topic..... The fact I never gave up on God when i left the Church laid the foundation for me to return 26 years later. I went from a believer....to very anti, to, eventually, back to being a believer. Edited July 10, 2016 by CountryBoy
Calm Posted July 10, 2016 Posted July 10, 2016 53 minutes ago, Tacenda said: I read on FB today, someone needed a recommendation on a good eye doctor. Well one of the responses was that they knew a good one who was LDS they recommended. So I think being LDS, gives precedence. It may be a Utah thing. It is not a Utah thing. Some people care, most others don't...just like every place we have lived. My mother, being 86, has suddenly started caring whether her doctors are LDS. Never before, but now she feels safer with someone who goes to the temple. She isn't thinking the way she used to, caring about the weirdest things. Some dementia, including paranoia is obviously present. I have never received or given a recommendation for anything here in Utah that included whether or not someone was Mormon. I ask on occasion if the conversation has gone on long enough just so I know what type of language is needed. My husband never mentions it. His mother in reommending doctors and other services never did nor has any of the mass of siblings and nieces. None of my neighbours from those in their nineties that have always lived within a few miles of where they are now to twenty year olds who have just moved into the state, dozens to hundreds of people...when recommending someone, it was about how good they are, religion is never mentioned. Now there may be neighbourhoods where people have developed that trait as they did in Kansas, California, and Canada...so it very well could be that there are local areas in Utah where people focus on that or organizations that include religion into their hiring practices and I would be shocked if there weren't because it happens everywhere I have wandered. So not a "Utah" thing, but a human thing. 2
busybee Posted July 10, 2016 Posted July 10, 2016 17 hours ago, ladyshanae said: Yikes! I wouldn't have had many friends if that had been a rule when I was growing up! Me neither. For my first 10 years of schooling I was the only LDS kid in the whole school. In my last two years there was one other.
RevTestament Posted July 10, 2016 Posted July 10, 2016 21 hours ago, Jeanne said: I grew up in Utah. Per..my devout father, I was not allowed to be friends with or associate outside of my religion. And...rightully so..because I was special ya know..and on top of that, I was born in this dispensation..saved for the last of times! Sorry to hear that Jeanne. My father was a good man but he wasn't perfect. He did have some prejudices. However, when it came to friends we basically had free reign to make whatever friends we wanted. The church helped me to expand my social life and did not restrict it in any way. I don't believe what you experienced was any way due to the church but rather local Mormon culture. I'm sure it was your father's feeling that it was best if you only had LDS friends because other friends might lure you away from the church. 2
UtahTexan Posted July 10, 2016 Posted July 10, 2016 1 hour ago, RevTestament said: Sorry to hear that Jeanne. My father was a good man but he wasn't perfect. He did have some prejudices. However, when it came to friends we basically had free reign to make whatever friends we wanted. The church helped me to expand my social life and did not restrict it in any way. I don't believe what you experienced was any way due to the church but rather local Mormon culture. I'm sure it was your father's feeling that it was best if you only had LDS friends because other friends might lure you away from the church. I would have loved loved to have had a father that cared as much as jeanne's father did. Heck...I would have loved to have had a father. 2
rodheadlee Posted July 10, 2016 Posted July 10, 2016 On 7/9/2016 at 8:53 AM, consiglieri said: Restricting children of gay parents from ordinances is obviously a more pressing issue. Surely you jest.
Scott Lloyd Posted July 10, 2016 Posted July 10, 2016 On July 5, 2016 at 11:53 PM, Storm Rider said: Jeanne, The danger I see in what you say is not that it is wrong, but that it can be twisted so easily into a a fairy tale god that is all about love, never asks anything of us, never has any commandments, it is all just fairy tales, rainbows, unicorns and rose colored glasses about two feet thick. The Law of Moses was preparatory to the Gospel of Christ not because it was wrong, but because the children of Israel refused to follow the Spirit. They demanded to be told everything to do in order to be righteous. The Law of Christ is the higher law because it is based on the Spirit. It requires that his covenant people, which was not sealed by birth as in the House of Israel, but by choice to all who chose to follow after him. The danger of this foundation you have presented is that there is no need to "follow"; there is no self-sacrifice; there is no demands; there is no covenant. It is all one-way because God is love and he loves me just the way I am and I don't have to do anything but say "you are god" and shazam you are saved. This is the machinations of the Evil One to lead every child of God astray. Please note that I did not say that manner in which you see God is wrong or incorrect, but it opens so many potential errors and falsehoods and that is what is dangerous. The God you describe and the God I worship are the same and I believe in the same way. I don't think I have ever known this Mormon god you speak of because that was never my relationship with God. He was always my refuge from the storm of life since I was a young lad. My relationship was first and foremost directly with God the Father. The Savior expanded that relationship exponentially and made everything possible. I really do think that Mormon Utah culture has allowed some really strange phenomena to exist among the saints. I don't find this degree of distortion among the saints outside of Utah and those that grew up in that culture. I was with you right up to the point where you started bashing "Mormon Utah culture." That has an element of "thank God I am not as other men" that mars an otherwise fine post.
Scott Lloyd Posted July 10, 2016 Posted July 10, 2016 3 hours ago, RevTestament said: Sorry to hear that Jeanne. My father was a good man but he wasn't perfect. He did have some prejudices. However, when it came to friends we basically had free reign to make whatever friends we wanted. The church helped me to expand my social life and did not restrict it in any way. I don't believe what you experienced was any way due to the church but rather local Mormon culture. I'm sure it was your father's feeling that it was best if you only had LDS friends because other friends might lure you away from the church. Jeanne's post does not characterize the "local Mormon culture" I know as a native Utahn. 30 minutes ago, rodheadlee said: Surely you jest. I didn't know consig was female, let alone that her name was Shirley.
Jeanne Posted July 10, 2016 Posted July 10, 2016 (edited) Just to clarify. My situation is because of two things..first...Dad..a late comer to religion and very determined. Culture yes..a little. By that I mean we are talking about an LDS community of about 800..(including the cows/pigs)..any non LDS that moved in..I was just not allowed to associate with. Another example..we had a small store that serviced Phillips 66 gas..alitle bread and Pop/Ice cream..and candy..(what else do we need)? Anyway, the man who brought the candy out to sell at our little store always had audience..why? He was black. We had just never seen a black person up close and thought that was the darndest thing. In any case, my situation doesn't reflect a regular LDS Ward. Edited July 10, 2016 by Jeanne
Teancum Posted July 10, 2016 Posted July 10, 2016 On July 9, 2016 at 0:17 PM, JLHPROF said: Considering how many "progressives" question the rightfulness of baptism at 8 anyway and think kids should be adults to choose a religion, I don't see how they can have a problem with this. And waiting until adulthood makes even MORE sense when the minor child is being taught one thing at home and another at Church. When there is no contradiction for them they may not need to wait, but when they are being taught one thing at Church and another at home that contradiction is the real pressing issue. So why restrict it to children in home sexual homes? I grew up in an inactive LDS home. In many ways my parents were hostile towards the church. Yet for cultural reasons I was baptized and confirmed at 8 and received the various Aaronic priesthood offices at the appropriate age.
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