Are LDS members in danger of losing their belief in Christ if they leave the church?

[Storm Rider]

2 hours ago, california boy said:

I think that is the biggest problem with this policy/now revelation.  There is little point to it except to further alienate gays from the church.  (as if that was necessary).  Certainly it increases the sorrow for many members who have gay children and grandchildren.  Maybe that was the point.  Make those mothers grieve even more because the had the unfortunate experience of having a gay child.  

Since I seem to be missing the whole point of this, maybe you could tell me why the church felt the need to come up with this policy??  Because the effect on me is that the church is willing to contradict the very fundamental teachings of Christ on little children in order to stick it to gay couples once again.

You and I have talked about this in the past.  I can invent some opinions about why it occurred, but they would have all the merit of my own opinion.  

Optics are important, but at the end of the day we all need to recognize and be able to distinguish between the optics and the reality of a situation.  

Life is not lived in a moment, but it is a journey.  Theatrics, drama, and emotion are all focused on today, this minute, this very second....and, again, may have very little to do with our lives.  We each need to be aware that the lives we led 20 years ago and the lives we will lead 20 years from today may have little in common with each other.  Alternatively, there are some that use today's experiences as a foundation upon which to build a better tomorrow.  

Will we fear for the "today" of our gay child?  Of course, but will a parent of faith put that child in God's loving care and allow him to take ultimate responsibility for him/her?  Yes.  Does that mean we stop praying for their eternal welfare or stop rejoicing in their daily lives today?  No, we will continue to pray and we will continue to find joy and pleasure as they have successes and choose well.  

I don't believe we can or need to judge their sins - you know that I don't and nor would you.  We accept them where they are, we counsel when and where it is sought, and we move forward.  We do not need to abandon our testimonies of truth, nor do we need to twist it to make allowances for what exists.  We have children who are gay.  They remain human, they remain our children, and they remain a part of our lives.  

As with all other humans, they will be welcome as long as they want to be welcome in our lives.  

Edited July 7, 2016 by Storm Rider

[UtahTexan]

6 hours ago, consiglieri said:

And it took me all of five minutes to come up with it.

We really deserve a better crop of apostles.

Especially for the money we're paying.

This is why you should not pretend to be an attorney

What it teaches is that the Church cares enough about the kids to protect them from conflict.

[UtahTexan]

5 hours ago, Jeanne said:

This is where it will hurt LDS kids, No  one is immune from the this said revelation.  No one.  They just can't see it! 

 

you never answered my question.  You made a factual statement about what kids will learn...I asked how many kids of that age group you actually talked to about this to form your "fact"

[Jeanne]

45 minutes ago, CountryBoy said:

you never answered my question.  You made a factual statement about what kids will learn...I asked how many kids of that age group you actually talked to about this to form your "fact"

None. Absolutely none!   Who has to have a fact on that?  They go to school together..they play together..and one group gets to be baptzied..and the other doesn't..Are kids stupid?

Right of the bat they are understanding a difference that shouldn't be there..and if they are taught at home the " whys why fores' then there grows another

stigma taught that hurts and LDS child..to think they are better than...or more special than..  When they all grow up..they realize the loss of good friendships and what it costs to be so precious..so special in a world where we are all the same!

I say this because I was one of those special kids..who thought I was better than anyone because I was baptized in the true church.

[UtahTexan]

9 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

None. Absolutely none!   Who has to have a fact on that?  They go to school together..they play together..and one group gets to be baptzied..and the other doesn't..Are kids stupid?

Right of the bat they are understanding a difference that shouldn't be there..and if they are taught at home the " whys why fores' then there grows another

stigma taught that hurts and LDS child..to think they are better than...or more special than..  When they all grow up..they realize the loss of good friendships and what it costs to be so precious..so special in a world where we are all the same!

I say this because I was one of those special kids..who thought I was better than anyone because I was baptized in the true church.

Kinda what I thought.  You stated something as a fact that is not a fact.....you made a bold statement that you cannot support.

The fact is, this helps kids.  I know how I was treated when I became a member when my family was not......it protects.  

OPlease.....do not embellish in a way to be negative to the Church when you have no support to your negativity.

[Jeanne]

10 minutes ago, CountryBoy said:

Kinda what I thought.  You stated something as a fact that is not a fact.....you made a bold statement that you cannot support.

The fact is, this helps kids.  I know how I was treated when I became a member when my family was not......it protects.  

OPlease.....do not embellish in a way to be negative to the Church when you have no support to your negativity.

Okay. but please..oh please..do not embellish on the positive of the Church when you have no support to your positivity.

Edited July 7, 2016 by Jeanne

[UtahTexan]

4 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

Okay. but please..oh please..do not embellish on the positive of the Church when you have no support to your positivity.

I haven't.  I won't.  And now, maybe you will be just as fair.

[Jeanne]

3 minutes ago, CountryBoy said:

I haven't.  I won't.  And now, maybe you will be just as fair.

Truce!!

[UtahTexan]

2 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

Truce!!

absolutely.......until........:)

[Teancum]

10 hours ago, ERayR said:

A pretty harsh judgement just because someone doesn't agree with you.  Sounds like your accusations against LDS don't you think?

It was a harsh response to a harsh post.  And it was not because someone simply disagrees with me thought it helps many to feel better to paint it as such.  

[thatjimguy]

Probably 60% of anyone growing up religious will become atheist. Not just Mormons I would think.

A mixture of never really believing, but belonging. Or, the standard believing, but then doubting and feeling silly to have ever believed in the first place.

Same ol song really.

 

[consiglieri]

On 7/7/2016 at 2:19 PM, CountryBoy said:

This is why you should not pretend to be an attorney

What it teaches is that the Church cares enough about the kids to protect them from conflict.

You really need to stop regurgitating the Church's Orwellian justification for discriminating against children with gay parents.

It makes you look dim.

Of course, there may be a reason for that . . .

Do not respond to insults with more insults.

[Gray]

8 hours ago, thatjimguy said:

Probably 60% of anyone growing up religious will become atheist. Not just Mormons I would think.

A mixture of never really believing, but belonging. Or, the standard believing, but then doubting and feeling silly to have ever believed in the first place.

Same ol song really.

 

A very small minority of Americans at least are atheist. 

[JLHPROF]

21 minutes ago, Gray said:

A very small minority of Americans at least are atheist.

But there are no dead atheists so it all balances out.

[VideoGameJunkie]

I will always believe in Christ and Heavenly Father even if I wasn't apart of any religion.

[UtahTexan]

7 hours ago, consiglieri said:

You really need to stop regurgitating the Church's Orwellian justification for discriminating against children with gay parents.

It makes you look dim.

Of course, there may be a reason for that . . .

Just stating facts.  The fact you are too anti to see that is well...what I would expect from someone who fakes being an attorney...:)

And truth never makes me look dim.  But....when those who reject truth call me dim, it is an honor. 

Stop the insults, both of you. Do not start fights by questioning another poster's competence at his job. 

[UtahTexan]

6 hours ago, CountryBoy said:

Just stating facts.  The fact you are too anti to see that is well...what I would expect from someone who fakes being an attorney...:)

And truth never makes me look dim.  But....when those who reject truth call me dim, it is an honor. 

Stop the insults, both of you. Do not start fights by questioning another poster's competence at his job. 

To be fair, I have not questioned his competence at his job.  He has admitted he is not an attorney, despite his name here.  I just wanted to clear that up.

[ttribe]

2 hours ago, CountryBoy said:

To be fair, I have not questioned his competence at his job.  He has admitted he is not an attorney, despite his name here.  I just wanted to clear that up.

I think you are confusing him with me. I'm the one who kept having to remind you I am not an attorney; I'm a forensic accountant who frequently works as an expert witness.  Consig is most definitely an attorney. I know his real life identity and know that he has his own law firm.  Get your facts straight.

[busybee]

On 07/07/2016 at 3:34 PM, consiglieri said:

And it took me all of five minutes to come up with it.

We really deserve a better crop of apostles.

Especially for the money we're paying.

Perhaps you should apply for the job seeing as you seem to think you're so much smarter and more capable. Just give me the heads up when you get your call, I'll need to make alternate plans for my Sundays.

[Tacenda]

4 minutes ago, busybee said:

Perhaps you should apply for the job seeing as you seem to think you're so much smarter and more capable. Just give me the heads up when you get your call, I'll need to make alternate plans for my Sundays.

Yea, that wasn't very well-thought out for him to have said that. The calling is huge, and probably one Consig may not want to endure.

[busybee]

On 07/07/2016 at 11:21 PM, Jeanne said:

None. Absolutely none!   Who has to have a fact on that?  They go to school together..they play together..and one group gets to be baptzied..and the other doesn't..Are kids stupid?

Right of the bat they are understanding a difference that shouldn't be there..and if they are taught at home the " whys why fores' then there grows another

stigma taught that hurts and LDS child..to think they are better than...or more special than..  When they all grow up..they realize the loss of good friendships and what it costs to be so precious..so special in a world where we are all the same!

I say this because I was one of those special kids..who thought I was better than anyone because I was baptized in the true church.

My kids attended a Catholic School where the school played a VERY active role in preparing the children for their first Holy Communion at age 7/8 and then later, at age 11/12, for their Confirmation. My kids didn't feel excluded in the least. LDS children are not prepared at school for baptism. That is done in the home and at church. There would be no reason for children of gay couples to feel excluded. What you are doing here is projection. You feel that way about things so obviously the children will feel the same. It just is not so.

[consiglieri]

26 minutes ago, busybee said:

Perhaps you should apply for the job seeing as you seem to think you're so much smarter and more capable. Just give me the heads up when you get your call, I'll need to make alternate plans for my Sundays.

Overqualified.

 

[Jeanne]

8 hours ago, ttribe said:

I think you are confusing him with me. I'm the one who kept having to remind you I am not an attorney; I'm a forensic accountant who frequently works as an expert witness.  Consig is most definitely an attorney. I know his real life identity and know that he has his own law firm.  Get your facts straight.

This is true,  I have smiled everytime CountryBoy states consig is not an attorney.

Edited July 9, 2016 by Jeanne

[consiglieri]

3 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

This is true,  I have smiled everytime CountryBoy states consig is not an attorney.

Just to clarify, the reason CountryBoy does this is because I made a claim on another thread a while back.  CountryBoy disagreed with my claim.

CountryBoy said that since I made the claim, I had to prove it. 

Instead of presenting the evidence (of which CountryBoy was almost certainly already aware), I simply asked him a direct question which dismantled his entire position.

CountryBoy, realizing that if he answered the question, the jig was up, instead attempted to create a diversion claiming that I obviously wasn't an attorney because I didn't present my case the way he told me to.

Several other posters on the board seem to have been glad to jump on this bandwagon.

Even though it was heading toward a cliff.

[rodheadlee]

On 7/7/2016 at 7:34 AM, consiglieri said:

And it took me all of five minutes to come up with it.

We really deserve a better crop of apostles.

Especially for the money we're paying.

How ironic, we cry for revelation and when we get it, we reject it. Meanwhile civil war has broken out in the US but no one seems to notice. I think the Cardston Temple Prophecy is well on it's way to being fulfilled. We reap what we sew.