Spirit Prison

[Sanpitch]

I have vague ideas on this subject, just going by what I've heard and read over the years.  Seems those worthy individuals are resurrected and go directly to the Celestial when they die, those somewhat less worthy go to a lower glory, I don't know who or when they go there.  Many people seem to feel that dead loved ones come back to be near those on Earth.  Many instances of that I've heard and read of, especially happening in the temple.  Where are they, 2,000 light years away and they zip back for forth?

What about the billions of dead ones that have lived on Earth since Adam and Eve?  Spirit prison is often mentioned, are most of those people in spirit prison, of which I picture a large area enclosed by barb wire where all the unworthy live as spirits without a body.  And where are they?

Just thoughts that go through my mind and realize there probably is no good answer.  Is there anyone who would like to speculate on the answers?

[strappinglad]

Spirit prison is a temporary state. So is ' paradise ' for that matter. Apparently there is some sort of gulf between them . Can you jump high enough to touch the moon? I can't. Only a few people have reached the moon( and you will get a debate on that ) . Circumstances are dictating and limiting my power to do totally as I might wish. Is gravity a metaphorical barbed wire fence? I suppose one could say that. Somehow, the actions that one does on earth establish a limit in the spirit world.

[cdowis]

Brother Jake explains it all

 

[JAHS]

3 hours ago, Sanpitch said:

And where are they?

Apparently the spirit world is right here on the earth with us:

President Brigham Young once said:
"When you lay down this tabernacle, where are you going? Into the spiritual world…Where is the spirit world? It is right here. Do the good and evil spirits go together? Yes they do…. Do they go beyond the boundaries of the organized earth? No, they do not…. Can you see it with your natural eyes? No. Can you see spirits in this room? No. Suppose the Lord should touch your eyes that you might see, could you then see the spirits? Yes, as plainly as you now see bodies" [Discourses of Brigham Young, ed. John A. Widtsoe, pp. 376-81. Salt Lake City, 1946.].

Elder Parley P. Pratt said of the Spirit World: 
"As to its location, it is here on the very planet where we were born; or, in other words, the earth and other planets of a like sphere, have their inward or spiritual spheres, as well as their outward, or temporal. The one is peopled by temporal tabernacles, and the other by spirits. A veil is drawn between the one sphere and the other, whereby all the objects in the spiritual sphere are rendered invisible to those in the temporal."(JD 3:368-69; KT, 132-33).

And Elder Harold B. Lee. said:

"Where is the spirit world? Is it away up in the heavens? That isn't what the scriptures and our brethren explain. They have told us the spirit world is right here round about us, and the only spirits who can live here are those who are assigned to fill their missions here on earth. This is the spirit world. And if our eyes could be opened we could see those who have departed from us—a father, mother, brother, a sister, a child." (Teachings of Harold B. Lee, 58; see also Discourses of Brigham Young, 376–77; Pratt, Key to the Science of Theology, 126)

[Boanerges]

My understanding is a bit different from yours, Sanpitch. Maybe we go to different kinds of Sunday School lessons?

I don't think anybody goes straight to the CK - we all go to a post-mortal spirit world, either paradise or spirit prison. I don't believe these terms are meant literally (i.e. no razor wire). Spirit prison is for those who did not hear the gospel on earth and those who rejected it. The gospel is preached in spirit prison.

A good summary is found here (although it would be nice if it were updated): Gospel Principles Chapter 41

Being assigned a kingdom of glory seems to come later, as outlined here: Gospel Principles Chapter 46

Personally I think most of what we think we know about post earth is speculation and supposition, doctrines of men mixed with scripture, and I prefer to concentrate on what I'm supposed to be doing now. I think what I'm supposed to be doing now is love my neighbor.

 

Edited April 16, 2016 by Boanerges
Fixed typo, clarified I am addressing the OP

[Calm]

Gospel Principles was updated in 2006 or 2009.  That is pretty current for an adult SS manual.  What were youthinking needs to be said better?

[Boanerges]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Gospel Principles was updated in 2006 or 2009.  That is pretty current for an adult SS manual.  What were youthinking needs to be said better?

I think it could be updated with more modern quotes, just as the Gospel Doctrine manual could. I've always thought it was a bit short on scripture, but that's just me.

[strappinglad]

One would hope that the mortal world is just as opaque to the spiritual one, otherwise you would spend all day going ," excuse me, excuse me" .To me it's a bit like the electro magnetic spectrum. We only see a tiny fraction of all the possible energy waves and thank heavens for that .

[Sanpitch]

2 hours ago, Boanerges said:

My understanding is a bit different from yours, Sanpitch. Maybe we go to different kinds of Sunday School lessons?

I don't think anybody goes straight to the CK - we all go to a post-mortal spirit world, either paradise or spirit prison. I don't believe these terms are meant literally (i.e. no razor wire). Spirit prison is for those who did not hear the gospel on earth and those who rejected it. The gospel is preached in spirit prison.

A good summary is found here (although it would be nice if it were updated): Gospel Principles Chapter 41

Being assigned a kingdom of glory seems to come later, as outlined here: Gospel Principles Chapter 46

Personally I think most of what we think we know about post earth is speculation and supposition, doctrines of men mixed with scripture, and I prefer to concentrate on what I'm supposed to be doing now. I think what I'm supposed to be doing now is love my neighbor.

 

"My understanding is a bit different from yours, Sanpitch. Maybe we go to different kinds of Sunday School lessons? "

I don't really have an understanding of it.  I think in some obituaries they tell of the deceased now being in the CK and happy with their other deceased family members.

Lots of answers and quotes in this thread, I read through once but too much, I'll have to read again to get a clear understanding of the general beliefs on the subject.  It does seem that the deceased spirits stay on Earth.

 

[Jeanne]

3 hours ago, Boanerges said:

My understanding is a bit different from yours, Sanpitch. Maybe we go to different kinds of Sunday School lessons?

I don't think anybody goes straight to the CK - we all go to a post-mortal spirit world, either paradise or spirit prison. I don't believe these terms are meant literally (i.e. no razor wire). Spirit prison is for those who did not hear the gospel on earth and those who rejected it. The gospel is preached in spirit prison.

A good summary is found here (although it would be nice if it were updated): Gospel Principles Chapter 41

Being assigned a kingdom of glory seems to come later, as outlined here: Gospel Principles Chapter 46

Personally I think most of what we think we know about post earth is speculation and supposition, doctrines of men mixed with scripture, and I prefer to concentrate on what I'm supposed to be doing now. I think what I'm supposed to be doing now is love my neighbor.

 

This is what I was taught also..but one question..can those in "paradise" visit those who are in the "spirit prison"  I put quotes on because we don't completely understand these places.

[rodheadlee]

3 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said:

There's no good answer because it is a fantasy. 

Yeah if only I hadn't died that one time and went to the outer darkness I might agree with you. The outer darkness was empty, nobody home. That lines up with LDS Church doctrine, no? Nobody gets sent there until judgement day. I was just visiting.

[The Nehor]

8 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

This is what I was taught also..but one question..can those in "paradise" visit those who are in the "spirit prison"  I put quotes on because we don't completely understand these places.

They have to to do missionary work. I am not sure whether they are two places separated or two states of being in one area. I keep flip-flopping on it every few years. Right now I am in a one place phase.

[JAHS]

14 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

They have to to do missionary work. I am not sure whether they are two places separated or two states of being in one area. I keep flip-flopping on it every few years. Right now I am in a one place phase.

Heber C. Kimball thought they were probably in two different places in the spirit world:

"Can those persons who pursue a course of carelessness, neglect of duty and disobedience, when they depart from this life, expect that their spirits will associate with the spirits of the righteous in the spirit world? I do no expect it, and when you depart from this state of existence, you will find it out for yourselves." (Journal of Discourses, 2:150.)

[The Nehor]

16 minutes ago, JAHS said:

Heber C. Kimball thought they were probably in two different places in the spirit world:

"Can those persons who pursue a course of carelessness, neglect of duty and disobedience, when they depart from this life, expect that their spirits will associate with the spirits of the righteous in the spirit world? I do no expect it, and when you depart from this state of existence, you will find it out for yourselves." (Journal of Discourses, 2:150.)

Association and coexisting seem different to me. I expect the righteous do not associate with the wicked and the wicked have no power to force their presence on the righteous.

[rpn]

I do not think it is true that in this dispensation the righteous who die are immediately resurrected.  (If that were so, why would Joseph Smith's body have been found in 1928 and 1941 and reburied, which it was?)   Those in spirit prison simply haven't yet learned what they need to learn, have utterly rejected what they were taught and have no more opportunity, or simply await the completion of their ordinances.   I'm not sure that paradise is physically separate, after all how could the righteous do missionary work in spirit prison if they had no contact.

Edited April 18, 2016 by rpn

[Sanpitch]

19 minutes ago, rpn said:

I do not think it is true that in this dispensation the righteous who die are immediately resurrected.  (If that were so, why would Joseph Smith's body have been found in 1928 and 1941 and reburied, which they were?)   Those in spirit prison simply haven't yet learned what they need to learn, have utterly rejected what they were taught and have no more opportunity, or simply await the completion of their ordinances.   I'm not sure that paradise is physically separate, after all how could the righteous do missionary work in spirit prison if they had no contact.

I suppose the reason I posed the question in the OP in the first place is that there seems to be varied opinions of after life and what happens.  There are clear statements from church leaders of the facts but often those statements are of their own opinions.  Lots of statements in the JofD are no longer excepted.

[longview]

Don't forget the parable of the "Rich Man and the Beggar Named Lazarus."  See Luke 16:19-31.  It speaks of a "great gulf fixed."

[Judd]

17 hours ago, Sanpitch said:

I don't really have an understanding of it.  I think in some obituaries they tell of the deceased now being in the CK and happy with their other deceased family members.

I can't say I've ever seen that. I'm any case, it isn't supported by any scripture or doctrine that I'm aware of. This earth will eventually become the celestial kingdom.

[Sanpitch]

9 minutes ago, Judd said:

I can't say I've ever seen that. I'm any case, it isn't supported by any scripture or doctrine that I'm aware of. This earth will eventually become the celestial kingdom.

This earth will become the CK, or this earth will become a CK?  Would, could there be multiple CKs?

[JAHS]

56 minutes ago, Sanpitch said:

This earth will become the CK, or this earth will become a CK?  Would, could there be multiple CKs?

"This earth, in its sanctified and immortal state, will be made like unto crystal and will be a Urim and Thummim to the inhabitants who dwell thereon, whereby all things pertaining to an inferior kingdom, or all kingdoms of a lower order, will be manifest to those who dwell on it; and this earth will be Christ’s."  (D&C 130:9)

Sounds like only this earth will be the celestial kingdom where Christ will dwell. However the scriptures also say:

 "But there are no angels who minister to this earth but those who do belong or have belonged to it." (D&C 130: 5)

We know that God created many worlds that people live on (Moses 1: 33)  So I assume that each of those worlds have their own angels from their own world. Using this same logic I suppose it's possible those other worlds could become celestial kingdoms for their inhabitants. But then Christ and God the Father would have to somehow be on all those Celestial kingdoms.

 

 

Edited April 17, 2016 by JAHS

[UtahTexan]

21 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said:

There's no good answer because it is a fantasy. 

no more a fantasy than your ability to contribute to the board

[ALarson]

17 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

Yeah if only I hadn't died that one time and went to the outer darkness I might agree with you. The outer darkness was empty, nobody home. That lines up with LDS Church doctrine, no? Nobody gets sent there until judgement day. I was just visiting.

It sounds like you had an interesting experience (glad you came back  )

I have read where people who have had a NDE seem to experience whatever they believed would happen (according to their religious beliefs, etc.).  I wonder if this is the case and could possibly be what happened with you?

I've never experienced this, so I don't know and I believe that no one else knows either (not that you don't remember what you experienced).  We have beliefs regarding life after death, but we simply do not know what it is going to be like, so I don't worry too much about it.

.

Edited April 17, 2016 by ALarson

[Atheist Mormon]

18 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

Yeah if only I hadn't died that one time and went to the outer darkness I might agree with you. The outer darkness was empty, nobody home. That lines up with LDS Church doctrine, no? Nobody gets sent there until judgement day. I was just visiting.

That conjecture is 100% unsubstantiated, there is nothing wrong investing your time in it. The reality & science says once the grey matter expires life ends. I was religious for a very long time, I did not see any evidence of supernatural power making any influence on Life.

[Ahab]

19 hours ago, strappinglad said:

One would hope that the mortal world is just as opaque to the spiritual one, otherwise you would spend all day going ," excuse me, excuse me" .To me it's a bit like the electro magnetic spectrum. We only see a tiny fraction of all the possible energy waves and thank heavens for that .

Not sure what you mean here but seems like an interesting idea to consider.  Some cities are very crowded and people in the could say "excuse me" anytime they go past anyone else while walking on sidewalks or paths when they bump into other people.  Unless spirits don't bump into other spirits they could also say "excuse me" when they do bump.

[Atheist Mormon]

22 hours ago, JAHS said:

Apparently the spirit world is right here on the earth with us:

President Brigham Young once said:
"When you lay down this tabernacle, where are you going? Into the spiritual world…Where is the spirit world? It is right here. Do the good and evil spirits go together? Yes they do…. Do they go beyond the boundaries of the organized earth? No, they do not…. Can you see it with your natural eyes? No. Can you see spirits in this room? No. Suppose the Lord should touch your eyes that you might see, could you then see the spirits? Yes, as plainly as you now see bodies" [Discourses of Brigham Young, ed. John A. Widtsoe, pp. 376-81. Salt Lake City, 1946.].

Elder Parley P. Pratt said of the Spirit World: 
"As to its location, it is here on the very planet where we were born; or, in other words, the earth and other planets of a like sphere, have their inward or spiritual spheres, as well as their outward, or temporal. The one is peopled by temporal tabernacles, and the other by spirits. A veil is drawn between the one sphere and the other, whereby all the objects in the spiritual sphere are rendered invisible to those in the temporal."(JD 3:368-69; KT, 132-33).

And Elder Harold B. Lee. said:

"Where is the spirit world? Is it away up in the heavens? That isn't what the scriptures and our brethren explain. They have told us the spirit world is right here round about us, and the only spirits who can live here are those who are assigned to fill their missions here on earth. This is the spirit world. And if our eyes could be opened we could see those who have departed from us—a father, mother, brother, a sister, a child." (Teachings of Harold B. Lee, 58; see also Discourses of Brigham Young, 376–77; Pratt, Key to the Science of Theology, 126)

Do any of above hypothesis help me? Right now I have 4 65inch screens and 3 computers in front of me, I have live feeds coming as far as from ISS, how come Spirit world never intervenes? Leaving me with my miserable Football, basketball games? It would be so easy to believe. It is absolutely not my fault for not believing in "Unseen" . I just cannot take anybody's word for it. Science doesn't Astronomers, Geologists, Evolutionary theorists work like crazy to out_prove each other and when they come to a concensus, it is no conjecture anymore.