Worried about my Mormon sister

[kurtkeoki]

I'll try to keep this as concise as possible, but a bit of background on my family is necessary. The gist of my question is whether or not it is the LDS church that is affecting her behavior, and how I can proceed so my sister can get the help she needs.

 

My parents got divorced when my sister was 12. The divorce wasn't ugly, but is still obviously a traumatic event for a child. After the divorce, my sister had a strained relationship with my mother, and when she was 14, she converted to the LDS church after attending off and on with her best friend. My mother was disappointed but understanding. At 18 she moved out, and moved in with my father. After a few months that relationship soured, so she moved out of his house. She kept in occasional contact with me, and we got along fine. She suffered from some depression and was generally unhappy, but she graduated high school with a 4.0 so she was still keeping up with her school work.

 

At 25, she was close to graduating from BYU and get engaged. She got back in touch with the family. We were all there when she got married. They started having kids, and we would all visit a few times a year. We got along great with her grandchildren, and a few years ago my mom, with my sister and her husband's blessing, moved out to Utah. My mom would see them once a week or so. My sister was never overly warm, and was always a little distant, but the grandchildren absolutely adored their grandma, and vice-versa.

 

Then, out of nowhere a few months ago, myself and my parents got a text that told us not to contact them anymore, that they were doing fine, but due to lingering issues from the divorce, she did not wish to associate with her family any further. Any attempts to contact her have failed. We have kept in touch with her husband. He does not approve of her behavior, and feels that it is not in the best interest of their children to be cut off from their family. He is in a tough spot, balancing his marriage with the welfare of his children.

 

It's troubling that she has cut off contact with me, when before she did keep in contact with me, even after cutting off my parents. It also happened very suddenly. She said they discussed it as a family, but it is clear this is not true, as her husband does not agree with her actions.

 

While I have my critiques when it comes to the LDS (or any) church, I've always felt the Mormons strongly stressed family, and that it would not be in their doctrine to encourage a member to cut off their family, even if they weren't LDS. Still, I'm curious if anyone has seen a pattern of behavior like this before. Is there an alternate belief set in the church, one that discourages any outside, potentially corrupting influences? Could she be trying to shelter her children from non-LDS influences? She did homeschool them, and refused to vaccinate. I do believe they go to a co-op where there are non-LDS children, so they do get some influence to the outside world that is non-LDS.

 

How would you try to get through to a family member, if you were in this situation? I'm very worried that her mental stability is decaying, as she doesn't seem to be acting rationally and in her own best interest, or the best interest of her children. Who in the LDS church is likely to have an influence on her? Who will she listen to?

 

Thanks for reading and for any advice you can give.

[Duncan]

This behaviour isn't taught at any Church I've ever been to, so it's an anomaly for sure. If you can i'd go over to their house, if it wouldn't put anyone in any harm or anything. The church doesn't tell anyone to homeschool or not and certaintly not to cut ourselves off from the world

[Maidservant]

Hi, welcome.

I'm sorry to hear that your sister and therefore your family is having a tough time.  Love and blessings to you all.

Is her husband LDS, or only your sister?

As far as the church generally, of course it is important to have harmonious family relationships, no matter what religion or other belief systems each member holds.  It is important to associate in goodwill with all kinds of people and not to label them as "corrupt influences" automatically.  (On the other hand, no one is required to suffer at the hands of truly toxic people, but that has very little to do with religion per se.)

But it is hard to say if there is any more local (and anomalous) influence happening (her (LDS) friends there, or such).  (Homeschool and vaccination aren't uniform LDS beliefs, although certainly  many LDS go that direction; but just as many do not.)

It sounds like your sister is struggling, from whatever reason.  And has made a decision as to one solution for that struggle.  Obviously there is something deep going on for her that is painful (she mentioned the divorce) that is still hurting her (whether it should or not? but we're all human).

I know my brother cut off from us last year.  Mostly that took the form of blocking us on Facebook.  I actually was not offended, because I understood that he needed to go through some things and reach out to us on his own terms when he felt energetically stronger. (He did a few weeks ago.) Our family growing up it was just tough.  Hard to explain because it wasn't like there was abuse, just, I don't know, divorce and fear-based stuff and I don't know all.  But all of us siblings have had to heal over the long term (or not).  It took me 15 years to forgive my father. And now I look back and I don't know what my problem was.  But that's because I'm just in a different life place in a different perspective.  I know back then, I just hurt.

In this case, it is harder for you because of the children involved.  But really we can't make choices for people.  Just outreach your love and continued welcome to her.  "We'll always be here," sort of thing.  Do as much as you can through the husband and children.  But in the end, your sister is an adult.  You can't 'herd' her, unfortunately.  Pray for her, love her, be there for when she is ready.

I do think if she actually listens in Church and what is taught and reads the scriptures and what is taught, she will eventually be able to forgive and try again.  But also maybe there is just something you don't know about that happened to her, or how she processed the trauma.

Edited December 27, 2015 by Maidservant

[Traela]

No, this is not normal, or the kind of behavior encouraged by the LDS church, although there's always the possibility that she's being influenced by a splinter group.  Her husband would have the best sense of who in Church leadership is both kind and likely to help her deal with her issues in a healthier way.  Generally it should be either the bishop (in charge of the congregation) or the Relief Society president (over the women in the congregation).

Since she's in Utah, you could also suggest to her husband that he encourage her to make an appointment with LDS Social Services, who can give her counseling from an LDS perspective and perhaps determine if she needs medical intervention.

I can say that I know people who have been on both sides of such situations, and from what they have said you would do well to just back off for now.  She might be willing to accept cards and such for the kids, if she is not involved at all- that includes messages for her, or jabs about how much they are missed.  But don't go over to her house- disregarding her wishes so blatantly will just cause more resentment.

 

 

Edited December 27, 2015 by Traela
For clarity

[mfbukowski]

55 minutes ago, kurtkeoki said:

I'll try to keep this as concise as possible, but a bit of background on my family is necessary. The gist of my question is whether or not it is the LDS church that is affecting her behavior, and how I can proceed so my sister can get the help she needs.

 

My parents got divorced when my sister was 12. The divorce wasn't ugly, but is still obviously a traumatic event for a child. After the divorce, my sister had a strained relationship with my mother, and when she was 14, she converted to the LDS church after attending off and on with her best friend. My mother was disappointed but understanding. At 18 she moved out, and moved in with my father. After a few months that relationship soured, so she moved out of his house. She kept in occasional contact with me, and we got along fine. She suffered from some depression and was generally unhappy, but she graduated high school with a 4.0 so she was still keeping up with her school work.

 

At 25, she was close to graduating from BYU and get engaged. She got back in touch with the family. We were all there when she got married. They started having kids, and we would all visit a few times a year. We got along great with her grandchildren, and a few years ago my mom, with my sister and her husband's blessing, moved out to Utah. My mom would see them once a week or so. My sister was never overly warm, and was always a little distant, but the grandchildren absolutely adored their grandma, and vice-versa.

 

Then, out of nowhere a few months ago, myself and my parents got a text that told us not to contact them anymore, that they were doing fine, but due to lingering issues from the divorce, she did not wish to associate with her family any further. Any attempts to contact her have failed. We have kept in touch with her husband. He does not approve of her behavior, and feels that it is not in the best interest of their children to be cut off from their family. He is in a tough spot, balancing his marriage with the welfare of his children.

 

It's troubling that she has cut off contact with me, when before she did keep in contact with me, even after cutting off my parents. It also happened very suddenly. She said they discussed it as a family, but it is clear this is not true, as her husband does not agree with her actions.

 

While I have my critiques when it comes to the LDS (or any) church, I've always felt the Mormons strongly stressed family, and that it would not be in their doctrine to encourage a member to cut off their family, even if they weren't LDS. Still, I'm curious if anyone has seen a pattern of behavior like this before. Is there an alternate belief set in the church, one that discourages any outside, potentially corrupting influences? Could she be trying to shelter her children from non-LDS influences? She did homeschool them, and refused to vaccinate. I do believe they go to a co-op where there are non-LDS children, so they do get some influence to the outside world that is non-LDS.

 

How would you try to get through to a family member, if you were in this situation? I'm very worried that her mental stability is decaying, as she doesn't seem to be acting rationally and in her own best interest, or the best interest of her children. Who in the LDS church is likely to have an influence on her? Who will she listen to?

 

Thanks for reading and for any advice you can give.

There ARE critics here who might make up who knows what and post it so use your common sense to figure out what's true if you hear something off the wall

But I agree totally with the others who have said that there is absolutely nothing in the church which teaches this kind of behavior is correct or good.

We are taught to become "forever families" and to do all we can with love and persuasion to help our families to accept the gospel.  This kind of behavior is completely against what we teach, and has to be motivated by some kind of serious event that perhaps you do not know about--- ?  Abuse?  Some major event??

It's not from the church I can tell you that.

She might be influenced to change her attitude by her Bishop or the Bishop's leader, we call him the "Stake President", but it sounds to me that there are other problems you do not know about.

Edited December 27, 2015 by mfbukowski

[mfbukowski]

20 minutes ago, Traela said:

No, this is not normal, or the kind of behavior encouraged by the LDS church, although there's always the possibility that she's being influenced by a splinter group.  Her husband would have the best sense of who in Church leadership is both kind and likely to help her deal with her issues in a healthier way.  Generally it should be either the bishop (in charge of the congregation) or the Relief Society president (over the women in the congregation).

Since she's in Utah, you could also suggest to her husband that he encourage her to make an appointment with LDS Social Services, who can give her counseling from an LDS perspective and perhaps determine if she needs medical intervention.

I can say that I know people who have been on both sides of such situations, and from what they have said you would do well to just back off for now.  She might be willing to accept cards and such for the kids, if she is not involved at all- that includes messages for her, or jabs about how much they are missed.  But don't go over to her house- disregarding her wishes so blatantly will just cause more resentment.

 

 

Good answer.

On second thought the Relief society president- even on the stake level- might be the best choice to help- that was a great suggestion.

[The Nehor]

There is something else going on here.

A no-vaccination homeschool family stance is usually indicative of some kind of fear. There are people who effectively homeschool but sadly they are in the minority. Not vaccinating your children is often a sign of some kind of mental illness.

There is probably nothing you can do at this point. If her husband is willing to talk stay in touch with him and hope things change.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

35 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

There is something else going on here.

A no-vaccination homeschool family stance is usually indicative of some kind of fear. There are people who effectively homeschool but sadly they are in the minority. Not vaccinating your children is often a sign of some kind of mental illness.

There is probably nothing you can do at this point. If her husband is willing to talk stay in touch with him and hope things change.

LOL. Alrighty then.

[strappinglad]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

 

  Not vaccinating your children is often a sign of some kind of mental illness.

 

There is quite a percentage of folks who , because of misinformation and fear-mongering about vaccines , have decided NOT to vaccinate. It has little or nothing to do with mental illness. Society is paying and will continue to pay a price by a loss of " herd immunity " . Ignorance and/or believing celebrities over experts in the medical field is part of the human experience. Besides, medical experts told us cigarettes were good for us just 60 years ago. 

Edited December 27, 2015 by strappinglad

[Cold Steel]

I would send her a letter and tell her you will abide by her wishes, but that in return you would at least like to know why and whether there's any way or whether there are any conditions under which she would change her mind. Tell her how much family means to you and that she isn't the only one affected by the divorce and see if she'll talk to just you ought you come out. If you were on pretty good terms, send her a card and a gift (perhaps a gift card) that she'll appreciate. 

Until you know why this thing just dropped on you, there's not a whole lot you can do. You might also call her bishop, tell him what happened and what you're trying to do -- and ask him if he's noticed anything unusual about her, like her resigning from a church calling or not coming to services. He may not be able to go into specifics, but if he knows anything, he most likely will find some way of letting you know he's on to something and give you some advice on what to do (if anything).  

Whatever happens, please return and let us know. Best of luck! 

 

[Calm]

If she finds out you are talking to her leaders about her...which mostly likely she will (and she should) as she has that right to expect them to be open with her, it could so backfire on you.  Talking behind her back might be the least of her reactions especially if you are expressing reservations about her mental or emotional state.  It does sound to me that there is something else, something deep going on, but it will not be likely forced into the open by anything that could be interpreted as pushing or criticism.  It is feeling safe from being hurt by criticism (or others' pain or other things she does not wish to bear at this tine) that will let her releaseher need to control her life in this way.

She is an adult and married, it is not her siblings' or even parents' role to determine what is best for her and chances are she won't appreciate anything that hints of an effort to tell her what she should be doing instead of what she has chosen to do.

My opinion....which given the limited information available to us and even you about what is going on.... is to let her husband know you care and would love to keep contact on any level that is acceptable to the both of them.  Don't do anything with the kids unless she is fully aware of it, it can end up making things much worse (speaking from experience).

You also need to accept the possibility that the husband actually agrees with your sister at least in part, but doesn't like being the messenger of bad news and so is softening his opinion when speaking with your family because he doesn't want to hurt feelings. IF and only IF he asks for advice, you might suggest he speak with a counselor for himself to get a reality check, not with the idea that he is going to fix things for his wife.  Unless she is dangerous to herself or others or is actively seeking help, it is best to let her come to the decision of getting professional help on her own.

The above are my conclusions of training in psychology as well as many years being involved in difficult family situations, some of which involved therapy successfully, others where the therapist became a way for family members to strike out at each other.  Pushing someone into therapy can unfortunately be a great way to ruin the chance that therapy might help in many cases, only in extreme cases should it be insisted upon for another.

 

Sometimes the hardest thing we do for those we love is nothing.

Edited December 27, 2015 by Calm

[Avatar4321]

I don't know enough to give good advice. But I can tell you what Joseph Smith wrote learned and what I have learned in my own life. And that is the promise James made in his Epistle is true. If a man lacks wisdom, he may ask God and receive it liberally

[The Nehor]

10 hours ago, strappinglad said:

There is quite a percentage of folks who , because of misinformation and fear-mongering about vaccines , have decided NOT to vaccinate. It has little or nothing to do with mental illness. Society is paying and will continue to pay a price by a loss of " herd immunity " . Ignorance and/or believing celebrities over experts in the medical field is part of the human experience. Besides, medical experts told us cigarettes were good for us just 60 years ago. 

I said often not exclusively. Some are naive, gullible, ignorant, or just plain stupid.

[cinepro]

14 hours ago, kurtkeoki said:

Thanks for reading and for any advice you can give.

As others have said, that's not typical LDS behavior.  But weird stuff can happen in Utah, and if she's the type to home-school and not vaccinate, she may have gotten some odd ideas from her circle of friends.  My initial impulse would be to contact her ward leaders like the Bishop or Relief Society President, but unfortunately she may not be the type that gives full faith to their counsel (especially if she's not even open to influence from her husband).

Time may be the only solution to this problem.  Stay open and hope she comes around soon.  Good luck!

[Ahab]

I agree with those who are suggesting that you ask her why she thinks it best to cut off ties to the family she was raised with. Tell her you just want to understand why, and that you WILL respect her decision even if you don't know why she is deciding to do this as long as you know it is her own decision and that she has not been "brainwashed" into doing something she doesn't have her own good reasons for doing it.

I know lots of people who don't visit much with the people they were raised with because they don't want their children to be influenced or affected by them. Sexual abuse or perversion is the main reason usually, including gay and lesbian relationships, or sometimes it's WoW stuff like alcohol or drug abuse, or even sometimes just vulgar language or ideas. 

Family or not there are certain kinds of people and behaviors that are not good to be around unless maybe those people are sincerely trying to repent and be better people.

 

 

 

[Jeanne]

I am so sorry about this, It must be so disheartening to not be able to discuss with her the problem.  It is my feeling, and I am just speculating, that it has a lot to do about how she feels about herself when she is around your family.  Somehow just might be caught up in how she really feels and how she is supposed to feel.  This may not make any sense but just keep trying to reach out in love and let her know  you love unconditionally as a brother and as a friend.  Please keep us posted and welcome!

[rpn]

1)  Even though your sister's dh responds to you as he does, you cannot know what is happening in their home.

2)  There are some circles (not just in the society made of of Mormons, but also purely secular ones) in which therapists and/or friends encourage or at least support others in identifying family members as toxic and banning them from their lives.    I'm not sure how this comes about, as it is so very foreign to a healthy family life.   But it is happens, and in the last few years more and more.

3)  Have you offered to go with her to family counseling, telling her that you want to have a healthy and loving family relationship with her and are willing to work with her and a therapist to get there?

4)  She may just be so completely overwhelmed, and sunk in her own grief or mental illness, or something to be able to deal with others.   If that is where she is at, merely sending her flowers or fruit once per month with a note saying, "thinking of you, hope you'll feel like eating/smelling these rather than throwing them?", could help her over a period of time.

5)  Members of the LDS church are often really busy, and sometimes extended family can feel left out because of that.   But there is nothing in church doctrine or guidance or expectations that supports shunning those who are different,  disregarding family opportunities and obligations, and strengthening family relationships.

6)  My advice is to simply keep calling or sending cheerful notes, or discussing non-personal things from time to time.    Ask your BIL how to access info about their kids school activities and occasionally show up to cheer for a niece or nephew (if he thinks that would be alright) or send them a card acknowledging their work or play.  Invite them to extended family events that you plan and have in neutral spots (like a park?).  

[Calm]

Quote

"thinking of you, hope you'll feel like eating/smelling these rather than throwing them?"

A nice idea, but I would leave off mentioning any negative feelings as that might lead her to feel like you are holding them against her, will always see her in that attitude rather than see what she is moving forward to, or she may just want to move beyond it and mentioning it might make her feel like she is being pulled back in.

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, rpn said:

2)  There are some circles (not just in the society made of of Mormons, but also purely secular ones) in which therapists and/or friends encourage or at least support others in identifying family members as toxic and banning them from their lives.    I'm not sure how this comes about, as it is so very foreign to a healthy family life.   But it is happens, and in the last few years more and more.

To be fair I have seen this done for good reason, when the family is genuinely toxic. I had a friend who lived in a state of constant anxiety due to her family constantly trying to pull her into sides of family squabbles, asking for monetary assistance, and using guilt to attempt to control her. She had grown up in it but when she finally cut her family off she turned from an anxious mess into a happy and confident person. She says she may make contact again some day but she is still worried that if she went back now she would revert.

Not saying that is the case here of course.

[rpn]

I am sure that everyone who does it thinks that it is being done for a good reason.   And it is true that it has always been thus that some family member who didn't like others or was not liked by others moved far away and didn't communicate.   It has also been a typical coping mechanism to limit contact with people who could/would not stop hurting you.

What appears to be different now is that more people are doing it to avoid having to deal with people who are annoying and people who are not hurting in any sense other than being a pain in the butt.   It is the labelling as "toxic" family members who are merely difficult to deal with.     It is calling family members toxic because they keep asking for things that you don't resist giving them, and make it their fault.   It is in judging as unworthy or toxic people who act outside social norms.   It is in judging family member toxic because of your own interaction with them which is entirely within your control.   And it is in making it a forever thing and an everything, failing to consider that change is possible, and exchanging christmas cards is unlikely to do anything vile to anyone.

[stemelbow]

Nope, not a Church teaching, really.  I mean Jesus purportedly said something about families being divided.  I'm sure your sister has a different take on all of this than you.  She may be crazy enough to think that she's not dividing the family but you or your parents are.  There's no telling when it comes to strained relationships in families, though. 

Sorry to hear about this situation.  I don't wish it on people at all. 

[Storm Rider]

On 12/27/2015 at 10:45 PM, kurtkeoki said:

I'll try to keep this as concise as possible, but a bit of background on my family is necessary. The gist of my question is whether or not it is the LDS church that is affecting her behavior, and how I can proceed so my sister can get the help she needs.

My parents got divorced when my sister was 12. The divorce wasn't ugly, but is still obviously a traumatic event for a child. After the divorce, my sister had a strained relationship with my mother, and when she was 14, she converted to the LDS church after attending off and on with her best friend. My mother was disappointed but understanding. At 18 she moved out, and moved in with my father. After a few months that relationship soured, so she moved out of his house. She kept in occasional contact with me, and we got along fine. She suffered from some depression and was generally unhappy, but she graduated high school with a 4.0 so she was still keeping up with her school work.

At 25, she was close to graduating from BYU and get engaged. She got back in touch with the family. We were all there when she got married. They started having kids, and we would all visit a few times a year. We got along great with her grandchildren, and a few years ago my mom, with my sister and her husband's blessing, moved out to Utah. My mom would see them once a week or so. My sister was never overly warm, and was always a little distant, but the grandchildren absolutely adored their grandma, and vice-versa.

Then, out of nowhere a few months ago, myself and my parents got a text that told us not to contact them anymore, that they were doing fine, but due to lingering issues from the divorce, she did not wish to associate with her family any further. Any attempts to contact her have failed. We have kept in touch with her husband. He does not approve of her behavior, and feels that it is not in the best interest of their children to be cut off from their family. He is in a tough spot, balancing his marriage with the welfare of his children.

It's troubling that she has cut off contact with me, when before she did keep in contact with me, even after cutting off my parents. It also happened very suddenly. She said they discussed it as a family, but it is clear this is not true, as her husband does not agree with her actions.

While I have my critiques when it comes to the LDS (or any) church, I've always felt the Mormons strongly stressed family, and that it would not be in their doctrine to encourage a member to cut off their family, even if they weren't LDS. Still, I'm curious if anyone has seen a pattern of behavior like this before. Is there an alternate belief set in the church, one that discourages any outside, potentially corrupting influences? Could she be trying to shelter her children from non-LDS influences? She did homeschool them, and refused to vaccinate. I do believe they go to a co-op where there are non-LDS children, so they do get some influence to the outside world that is non-LDS.

How would you try to get through to a family member, if you were in this situation? I'm very worried that her mental stability is decaying, as she doesn't seem to be acting rationally and in her own best interest, or the best interest of her children. Who in the LDS church is likely to have an influence on her? Who will she listen to?

Thanks for reading and for any advice you can give.

This is an unfortunate set of circumstances.  My initial response is that it has nothing to do with her religious affiliation.  There is something else going on that is motivating her behavior.  

You have correctly pointed out that family is of major importance to LDS and that may assist you as you attempt to heal this separation.  

I am reticent to provide any form of counsel because there are so many unknowns in this situation.  Strive for honest communication with her - without making her feel any degree of aggression or need to be defensive - do not accept untruths from anyone.  For example, should she state that she has talked it over with her family i.e. her husband, then a gentle comment that you have talked with him and he seems as bewildered as you are.  Remind her of your love for her and that you miss talking with her.  

What you are striving for is finding ways to maintain a relationship, strengthening the foundation of your relationship, and building a vision of what the future may bring based on family activities and interaction.  

Having said this, something is going on in her heart and mind that is affecting her perceptions of relationships.  This is not happening because of you or anything you have done.  She may be acting badly, but love her anyway.