stemelbow Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 There are lots of Bible scholars who are non-literalists. Probably not too many GAs, though. Yes.
CA Steve Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 I'd say yes.So no war in heaven? Who did the 1/3 host follow if it was not a literal being? Where do we stop with allegorical or symbolic figures and start with historical ones? Adam? Abraham? Jesus? For me, I think one cannot decide to reject some and accept others simply because the story line is less likely, so if we are saying some are real and others are not, on what basis is such a judgement made? 2
jkwilliams Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 So no war in heaven? Who did the 1/3 host follow if it was not a literal being? Where do we stop with allegorical or symbolic figures and start with historical ones? Adam? Abraham? Jesus? For me, I think one cannot decide to reject some and accept others simply because the story line is less likely, so if we are saying some are real and others are not, on what basis is such a judgement made? I think we just choose to believe it.
JAHS Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 (edited) Satan is real and is the author of all that is evil and can place temptations in our path, however it is our own weakness that causes us to succumb to the temptations and sin. "The devil made me do it" is not an acceptable excuse. We are perfectly capable of choosing to commit sin on our own. Edited October 9, 2015 by JAHS 3
stemelbow Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 So no war in heaven? Who did the 1/3 host follow if it was not a literal being? Where do we stop with allegorical or symbolic figures and start with historical ones? Adam? Abraham? Jesus? For me, I think one cannot decide to reject some and accept others simply because the story line is less likely, so if we are saying some are real and others are not, on what basis is such a judgement made? Many think Noah's flood was literal and covered the whole earth. Some believe it was localized. Some don't believe it happened at all. Some believe Jonah was swallowed by a whale. Others see it as allegory. Some believe Creation literally happened as the Bible tells is. Others see the Biblical story as allegory. We should be able to draw the line on a individual basis. I can't understand why that would be a problem. Must we all be the same? Someday we will see clearly and all come together on the details, but isn't it enough for now we all have some things we can agree on?
VideoGameJunkie Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 Satan is so mean to us because he's jealous that we have bodies and can progress while he is damned for all eternity. His whole persona is about jealousy towards us that made it to earth so he tries with all his power to thwart our salvation because he can't have it. It's all about jealousy. Also, if there was no Satan I'd feel a lot worse about myself for all the bad things I've done in my life knowing I wasn't tempted and it was just how I naturally am.
Duncan Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 I was being facetious, sorry. Satan is a name we give to every selfish or evil impulse we have because we don't like admitting that those impulses come from within us, not from an external being trying to sway us. We are the sources of our own evil. Of course, if there is no Satan, how do we explain Miley Cyrus? I blame her dad-I knew that guy was trouble years ago!!!! I think Satan is a real person, I think he appeals to the natural man in us and then stands back and see where that leads us, he's a love and leave him kind of guy. I see God appealing to the purer side of us and never leaves us. In the DC 121:4 he says that God "O Lord God Almighty, maker of heaven, earth, and seas, and of all things that in them are, and who controllest and subjectest the devil, and the dark and benighted dominion of Sheol—stretch forth thy hand; let thine eye pierce; let thy pavilion be taken up; let thy hiding place no longer be covered; let thine ear be inclined; let thine heart be softened, and thy bowels moved with compassion toward us." So God controls and subjects Satan but for us we can too if we want to of course 2
Teancum Posted October 9, 2015 Posted October 9, 2015 I'm just wondering about religious people's beliefs concerning satan. Do you believe he actually exists and that he works to thwart God's intentions? I see two basic camps on this board among theists-those who blame everything they disagree with on him and those who blame absolutely nothing of consequence on him. I just thought it would be an interesting topic to understand better. I am highly skeptical that the devil we call Lucifer or Satan exists. 1
Tsuzuki Posted October 10, 2015 Posted October 10, 2015 I'm just wondering about religious people's beliefs concerning satan. Do you believe he actually exists and that he works to thwart God's intentions? I see two basic camps on this board among theists-those who blame everything they disagree with on him and those who blame absolutely nothing of consequence on him. I just thought it would be an interesting topic to understand better.The ancient Israelites saw Him as God's district attorney. I see Him as the Holy Ghost.
bluebell Posted October 10, 2015 Author Posted October 10, 2015 I am highly skeptical that the devil we call Lucifer or Satan exists. If i'm not misunderstanding, you are highly skeptical that God exists as well, right?
thesometimesaint Posted October 10, 2015 Posted October 10, 2015 God always votes for us; Satan always votes against us; We break the tie. 2
mfbukowski Posted October 11, 2015 Posted October 11, 2015 I'm just wondering about religious people's beliefs concerning satan. Do you believe he actually exists and that he works to thwart God's intentions? I see two basic camps on this board among theists-those who blame everything they disagree with on him and those who blame absolutely nothing of consequence on him. I just thought it would be an interesting topic to understand better.Positive requires negative. It's the way our minds work.
bluebell Posted October 12, 2015 Author Posted October 12, 2015 Positive requires negative.It's the way our minds work.Are saying that he's not real, but that he (as a creation of our minds) is the way our minds balance the positives in our belief system?
mfbukowski Posted October 12, 2015 Posted October 12, 2015 Are saying that he's not real, but that he (as a creation of our minds) is the way our minds balance the positives in our belief system?Well it's more complicated than that- the problem is that we cannot perceive where "reality" begins and our minds end. We experience light waves (or so we call them) entering out eyes and our brains form them into images we call "reality". We bump into stuff in the dark and "know" it's there by the pain in our shins. In considering God we have the feelings of our hearts to tell us he is "real" and that's about all. That is fine with me, because those feelings are just as real as tables and chairs when you consider the only things we know about what they "are" is what our senses tell us- feelings are senses too, just as valid. So if we experience God, that makes him real to us. If we experience satan- or ascribe results to him that are negative, then he is just as real as anything else to us, I suppose. But certainly using words, which are abstract symbols for experiences, we need opposites to define each other. Opposition in all things etc. No pleasure without pain, no cold without hot, etc. One word defines its opposite So if God gives us good feelings, where do bad feelings come from? We say "Satan" which I suppose is as good a projection of our feelings as any we have. The words "actually exist" are k9ind of difficult to know what is meant by them. Does a unicorn "actually exist"? We have books about them, can draw them, know how they are supposed to behave, so in a sense the story of unicorns at least "exists". But no one has experienced a unicorn directly- we don't know how they feel or what kind of feelings they give us, how they smell etc. Ancients believed they existed because they found horns of the Narwhal and ascribed them to unicorns. That was their evidence. Now we don't believe that anymore. But God definitely exists to me because I have a testimony of Him. I have experienced feelings that define God for me. Satan? Well I have felt bad and depressed at times- was that "Satan"? Were those feelings "real"?? At some point it just becomes a matter of how we want to define the terms, nothing more nor less. 1
Teancum Posted October 12, 2015 Posted October 12, 2015 If i'm not misunderstanding, you are highly skeptical that God exists as well, right?I am hopeful God exists but I do not know. Otherwise I would not continue to pray.I am more skeptical about a devil even if there is a God. 2
thesometimesaint Posted October 12, 2015 Posted October 12, 2015 Even if there isn't a Devil men would have invented him long ago.
rodheadlee Posted October 12, 2015 Posted October 12, 2015 I'm just wondering about religious people's beliefs concerning satan. Do you believe he actually exists and that he works to thwart God's intentions? Yes, I know he exists. Don't ask me how I know. He is the Deceiver, the Father of Lies and the Accuser, among other things. The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to get people to believe he doesn't exist. I believe he started a major false religion which I don't care to name here.but by their fruits you know them. 1
bluebell Posted October 12, 2015 Author Posted October 12, 2015 Even if there isn't a Devil men would have invented him long ago. It makes sense. People having been inventing their own gods for millennia.
CV75 Posted October 12, 2015 Posted October 12, 2015 I'm just wondering about religious people's beliefs concerning satan. Do you believe he actually exists and that he works to thwart God's intentions? I see two basic camps on this board among theists-those who blame everything they disagree with on him and those who blame absolutely nothing of consequence on him. I just thought it would be an interesting topic to understand better.https://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/devil?lang=eng I believe he actually exists, but I'm not sure "blaming" is the right interaction to be having with him.
Bee Sweet Posted October 12, 2015 Posted October 12, 2015 Satan came to my ward one Sunday, everybody ran but one guy an the back row. Satan was furious and asked him why he wasn't afraid? He replied, " I've been married to your sister for 25 years." 3
iWriteStuff Posted October 12, 2015 Posted October 12, 2015 Satan came to my ward one Sunday, everybody ran but one guy an the back row. Satan was furious and asked him why he wasn't afraid? He replied, " I've been married to your sister for 25 years."Now if only the High Priest speaker in my ward had opened with that joke.....
Bobbieaware Posted October 12, 2015 Posted October 12, 2015 (edited) t seems to me there's a logical followup question for those LDS Church members who don"t believe there is a real devil -- and that would be to ask them if they also don"t believe there are human beings who will be condemned to become the sons of perdition. For if against logical consistency there are some among us who don't believe in a literal devil but who do believe some will be condemned to become the sons of perdition, then they are admitting they believe that -- much like the devil and his fallen angel followers -- there will be some members of the Church who were once mighty and strong followers of God who will ultimately be thrust into hell for rebellion against the Savior.So here's that followup question for those members of the Church who don't believe satan is real:Since you don't believe in a real devil, do you also not believe in the LDS doctrine that some of our fellow human beings (spiritual sons and daughters of God) will be thrust into hell and condemned to be the sons of perdition? Edited October 12, 2015 by Bobbieaware
mfbukowski Posted October 12, 2015 Posted October 12, 2015 It makes sense. People having been inventing their own gods for millennia.How could one know if that assertion is true or false?
bluebell Posted October 12, 2015 Author Posted October 12, 2015 How could one know if that assertion is true or false? I believe that the golden calf that the House of Israel had Aaron create so they could worship it was a god of their own invention.
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