mfbukowski Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 Words of wisdom are for personal growth. The purpose of reading scripture is to aid causing a change within us. It is a guide book on principles of action, not a robotic step by step instruction set on how to deal with everything.I would simply disagree that the scriptures and lessons in church don't help with 'drama', it's just that people are all at different stages of development in how they apply it to their lives. Amen. We could stop right here as far as I am concerned.
Jeanne Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 that's true, how do you seperate though the gospel from the people? wouldn't that make the Gospel some pie in the sky, carrot on a stick thing no different from any other self help program or philosophy? In other words why learn something just to learn it and not apply it or do anything with it?
Jeanne Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 that's true, how do you seperate though the gospel from the people? wouldn't that make the Gospel some pie in the sky, carrot on a stick thing no different from any other self help program or philosophy? In other words why learn something just to learn it and not apply it or do anything with it? Duncan, you are right in questioning the "how to separate" situation. In her mind, the good things from the gospel might be better because she has separated herself from the people. The people in a Ward are I am sure basic good people..but if they don't represent themselves very well, it is all that one knows about the community of people in the gospel. I had a RS president that was just impossible to please...and I love that part of the gospel..where you help, contribute and please others..it is hard to separate what you know of the gospel from the people that represent it. 1
theplains Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 Its like in alma 32, give it a test to see if its true. A hindu could make the same case for this test. Regards,Jim
sheilauk Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 that's true, how do you seperate though the gospel from the people? wouldn't that make the Gospel some pie in the sky, carrot on a stick thing no different from any other self help program or philosophy? In other words why learn something just to learn it and not apply it or do anything with it?There is value in learning for the sake of learning - the discipline, the exercise of the mind and the fact that you never know when some bit of knowledge will come in useful. As to how to separate the gospel from the people - time and practice.
ERayR Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 A hindu could make the same case for this test. Regards,Jim Except we are not talking about Hindus here. 1
Duncan Posted September 5, 2015 Author Posted September 5, 2015 Drama is different things to different people. I'd have to know the specifics to make any suggestions. a few examples going on vacation and coming home and finding out you got released and called and sustained into something else plagiarism in the Church from a High Councilor who also attends the Catholic Church leaders not believing reports about abuse (oh, he wouldn't do that, he's a good man) A Stake President cancelling a Friday-Sat Night women's retreat because they need priesthood present, all the while said Stake Pres. and wife go on an Alaskan Cruise a Church building built across the street from a church leader, who then moves and now the vast majority is now stuck having to drive an hour to the building A Missionary joining another Church on his mission and is now trying to get members to join with him MLM schemes in Church Being bullied at Church
ERayR Posted September 5, 2015 Posted September 5, 2015 a few examples going on vacation and coming home and finding out you got released and called and sustained into something else plagiarism in the Church from a High Councilor who also attends the Catholic Church leaders not believing reports about abuse (oh, he wouldn't do that, he's a good man) A Stake President cancelling a Friday-Sat Night women's retreat because they need priesthood present, all the while said Stake Pres. and wife go on an Alaskan Cruise a Church building built across the street from a church leader, who then moves and now the vast majority is now stuck having to drive an hour to the building A Missionary joining another Church on his mission and is now trying to get members to join with him MLM schemes in Church Being bullied at Church I am truly in awe of your faithfulness in that kind of an atmosphere. Talk about a test of faith. 2
rpn Posted September 5, 2015 Posted September 5, 2015 Well that is a whole lot of drama (though the building probably was not built for leader convenience in spite of what the rest of the members think: in far-flung stakes the stake center has to be one place and no matter where it is, only between 10-20 percent will have it nearby). The good news is that they are mostly growing pains kind of trouble, and growing leaves them behind.
Duncan Posted September 5, 2015 Author Posted September 5, 2015 I am truly in awe of your faithfulness in that kind of an atmosphere. Talk about a test of faith. oh, hahahahhahaha! I try! but I can certaintly add to the list but for now it's good enough!
Thinking Posted September 5, 2015 Posted September 5, 2015 I'll bet that this is the real reason why most people who leave the Church (at least for a time) do so. Too much drama. Leaving does not eliminate drama. In fact, it creates a lot of drama for those who have a significant number of family members who are active LDS.
sunstoned Posted September 5, 2015 Posted September 5, 2015 Sad but true. I honestly can't think of the last time i had to deal with any drama at church, probably because I don't cultivate it in my life. If someone bugs me, i just don't hang out with them. If someone does something that i think is snarky, i.......just don't hang out with them. If someone says something stupid...... You get the idea. You can be annoyed with someone or disagree without getting one drop of drama on you. I don't think some people understand that though. This is very good advice. I try to do the same. When I was younger I didn't, and I had drama in my life.
thatjimguy Posted September 6, 2015 Posted September 6, 2015 a few examples going on vacation and coming home and finding out you got released and called and sustained into something else plagiarism in the Church from a High Councilor who also attends the Catholic Church leaders not believing reports about abuse (oh, he wouldn't do that, he's a good man) A Stake President cancelling a Friday-Sat Night women's retreat because they need priesthood present, all the while said Stake Pres. and wife go on an Alaskan Cruise a Church building built across the street from a church leader, who then moves and now the vast majority is now stuck having to drive an hour to the building A Missionary joining another Church on his mission and is now trying to get members to join with him MLM schemes in Church Being bullied at Church I can see how dealing with these can drain the spirit. Is she dealing with all of those issue personally or do they just surround her?
Stargazer Posted September 6, 2015 Posted September 6, 2015 oh, hahahahhahaha! I try! but I can certaintly add to the list but for now it's good enough! What stake do you live in, anyway? I want to make a note on that so I never, ever, move there!!! Actually, I think I might move there just to enjoy the zaniness.
Duncan Posted September 6, 2015 Author Posted September 6, 2015 What stake do you live in, anyway? I want to make a note on that so I never, ever, move there!!! Actually, I think I might move there just to enjoy the zaniness. I live in central Canada, you are very welcome to move here!
Duncan Posted September 6, 2015 Author Posted September 6, 2015 (edited) I can see how dealing with these can drain the spirit. Is she dealing with all of those issue personally or do they just surround her? from what I can tell she dealt with four of those. One I know she was really upset with was the women's retreat, it was kind of a lifeline for her and so with that gone she doesn't attend really anything or know people anymore. She was bullied at seminary so much so she quit going and did home study Edited September 6, 2015 by Duncan
The Nehor Posted September 6, 2015 Posted September 6, 2015 I live in central Canada, you are very welcome to move here! That explains everything.
Sleeper Cell Posted September 6, 2015 Posted September 6, 2015 The separate the Gospel from the people argument is spurious. The Gospel is the people. Heaven is filled with people. Existence is dealing with people. The people are the same that are here. I am fine with a Terrestrial or Telestial existence if that is where the people I am around will be. I'm fine being a blue collar inhabitant in Heaven. Drama exists any time you have more than one person in a group. I don't know of a decent argument for this issue. This is basically the central issue that led to me leaving the Church. There were other issues, but really those issues were the result of the drama factor. Not quite sure why you think that there will be more drama in the Celestial kingdom than elsewhere. Somehow I suspect that those most inclined to drama will tend to end up in the lower kingdoms. These six things doth the Lord hate: yea seven are an abomination unto him. A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood; an heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief; a false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren. [Prob 6:16-19] 1
Meadowchik Posted September 7, 2015 Posted September 7, 2015 How we treat people in unpleasant situations, including insppropriate behavior IS a major part of the Gospel.The church is for healing, meaning we must expect and accept "the sick" to be there. Our job is to emulate Christ, even if the other guy id failing to or not even seeming to try to do so.
thatjimguy Posted September 11, 2015 Posted September 11, 2015 from what I can tell she dealt with four of those. One I know she was really upset with was the women's retreat, it was kind of a lifeline for her and so with that gone she doesn't attend really anything or know people anymore. She was bullied at seminary so much so she quit going and did home study That's pretty tough for sure depending on which they are. Now what I am interested in is how someone gets bullied in Seminary. Is it a holier than thou thing, a clique thing? And I know about that idea of the "hamster wheel". I've thought that many times myself. Seems like religion is just something for broken people to do so they don't go crazy. Especially the "go out on help someone else instead of focusing on your problems" idea. Just a placebo. Like a policeman who tell the crowd "Nothing to see here...move along!" If she's not feeling the spirit in the ward, maybe she should just visit another. Just a visit one week or so. Just so she can eliminate the idea that it's the gospel that is the problem. If she can feel it again in other ward or meetinghouse...do it! She'll have to go back, obviously, but the blame to the gospel will be gone.
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