Duncan Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 I have a friend who's been inactive for some years. I am hoping to at least minimize her harshing on the Church. One point she brought up was what is the point of studying and reading and attending classes when it all falls apart when dealing with the drama in the Church. Knowing that this or that happened or what this scripture means doesn't help you in dealing with some holier than thou speaker or all kinds of problems that you deal with at Church and with the Church. You get enough drama at work or home, you don't need it at church. I have no idea what to say. Any clues or tips?
thatjimguy Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 It's like when I had my problems with missionaries that just came home and did whatever when they got home. I got ticked at people, but started blaming the gospel. I'd say tell her to separate the gospel from the people.Separate the drama from the gospel.Use the spirit to guide her to what is right or not. In other words, with drama, it takes two to tango. One to create the drama and the other to listen. 3
Duncan Posted September 4, 2015 Author Posted September 4, 2015 It's like when I had my problems with missionaries that just came home and did whatever when they got home. I got ticked at people, but started blaming the gospel. I'd say tell her to separate the gospel from the people.Separate the drama from the gospel.Use the spirit to guide her to what is right or not. In other words, with drama, it takes two to tango. One to create the drama and the other to listen. that's true, how do you seperate though the gospel from the people? wouldn't that make the Gospel some pie in the sky, carrot on a stick thing no different from any other self help program or philosophy? In other words why learn something just to learn it and not apply it or do anything with it?
thatjimguy Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 Well it does have to be applied. I mean if youve read it and then know its right. Why wouldnt you apply it?Its like in alma 32, give it a test to see if its true. Then applying it is easier id imagine.As far as seperating the people from the gospel, maybe understand that we seperate ourselves all the time when talking about it.How many times have you ever heard during a talk about scriptire study or home teaching ; "now I know im not the best at this myself, but..."We say that because we know as much as what we are saying is the truth and want to preach it, we know we are fallen and cannot claim perfection on that subject either. Once we realize that we know the truth but still fail, its easier to accept others failures as seperate tge truths in the gospel and the shortcomings of men.Am I answering on target? I hope im getting your question right in my head.
St. Bookmark Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 I told my drama story all ready and I still go to church, not for them but for myself and God, take the sacrament, then go to Sunday school to feel the spirit, the priesthood to satisfy the mind, And then home to satisfy my hunger. 2
Duncan Posted September 4, 2015 Author Posted September 4, 2015 Well it does have to be applied. I mean if youve read it and then know its right. Why wouldnt you apply it?Its like in alma 32, give it a test to see if its true. Then applying it is easier id imagine.As far as seperating the people from the gospel, maybe understand that we seperate ourselves all the time when talking about it.How many times have you ever heard during a talk about scriptire study or home teaching ; "now I know im not the best at this myself, but..."We say that because we know as much as what we are saying is the truth and want to preach it, we know we are fallen and cannot claim perfection on that subject either. Once we realize that we know the truth but still fail, its easier to accept others failures as seperate tge truths in the gospel and the shortcomings of men.Am I answering on target? I hope im getting your question right in my head. yeah, I would say though it's dealing with just social garbage in church that drains you, we don't need more nonsense in life and so from her vantage point, why bother attending if what you hear in church or your interactions with others leave you less than fulfilled
Popular Post Mars Posted September 4, 2015 Popular Post Posted September 4, 2015 (edited) not to be a jerk, but... https://xkcd.com/1124/ Edited September 4, 2015 by Mars 8
Jacob Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 It's like when I had my problems with missionaries that just came home and did whatever when they got home. I got ticked at people, but started blaming the gospel. I'd say tell her to separate the gospel from the people.Separate the drama from the gospel.Use the spirit to guide her to what is right or not. In other words, with drama, it takes two to tango. One to create the drama and the other to listen.The separate the Gospel from the people argument is spurious. The Gospel is the people. Heaven is filled with people. Existence is dealing with people. The people are the same that are here. I am fine with a Terrestrial or Telestial existence if that is where the people I am around will be. I'm fine being a blue collar inhabitant in Heaven. Drama exists any time you have more than one person in a group. I don't know of a decent argument for this issue. This is basically the central issue that led to me leaving the Church. There were other issues, but really those issues were the result of the drama factor.
Popular Post sheilauk Posted September 4, 2015 Popular Post Posted September 4, 2015 No, the Gospel is not the people. The Church is the people. The Gospel is the Good News that Christ lives and that He can save us if we come unto Him. The Gospel does not change with the people, but the Church and the ward/branch/stake can. The Gospel is what the people, very imperfectly, are trying to live. True, you cannot separate drama from people - if you want to interact with people, you will have to come to terms with drama. Firstly, remember that you create drama for others. Secondly, learn to ignore others' drama even when it affects you. Deal with the issue and the individual, not the drama. Stay calm. Thirdly, eliminate the drama in other areas of your life - work to have a calm family life, learn to keep an even temper, change your job if fellow employees are too dramatic for you. Fourth, attending church is essential for one's soul. The Lord wants us to go to Church, not to meet others but to show our love and respect for Him and his Word. Taking the Sacrament is the most uplifting thing we can do and in the CoJCoL-dS we can do it most weeks. Each time, we can take a deep breath and start again - an amazing privilege which should be the very last thing we ever give up. We need the drama of the Sacrament to boost and strengthen our spirit. There is no need to interact with anyone at Church. You can sit quietly at the back and leave immediately after the meeting. No need to attend ward activities or be involved, but there is a need to attend Church, partake of the Sacrament and worship the Lord - surely if we love the Lord, we would want to worship Him and renew our covenants with Him, to show our commitment to Him. In any event, it is a commandment. Personally, i find that when i do not attend Church on a regular basis, my relationship with the Lord begins to falter and slip away. I personally need that regular reminder/commitment. I am not a very social person, the effort of socialising all morning is very physically tiring but taking the Sacrament and the act of worship is the spiritual boost i need to get me through the week! 9
CV75 Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 I have a friend who's been inactive for some years. I am hoping to at least minimize her harshing on the Church. One point she brought up was what is the point of studying and reading and attending classes when it all falls apart when dealing with the drama in the Church. Knowing that this or that happened or what this scripture means doesn't help you in dealing with some holier than thou speaker or all kinds of problems that you deal with at Church and with the Church. You get enough drama at work or home, you don't need it at church. I have no idea what to say. Any clues or tips?Invite her to come here. There's no drama here! 2
Jacob Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 No, the Gospel is not the people. The Church is the people. The Gospel is the Good News that Christ lives and that He can save us if we come unto Him.That is fine. However, it is still the same issue. The Gospel as defined here is about getting people to Heaven. Those people are the members of the Church. The Gospel, given your definition, seems to be Christ, the people and their relationship. So a large part of the Gospel is still the people.
sheilauk Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 (edited) Not quite what I meant - its not the people, its individual's and their individual relationship with Christ - not with other people. Its me and Christ or you and Christ, not us and Christ. The Church is a vehicle, the people come as part of the package of the Church, which provides the way to administer the Sacrament. When people start to get on my nerves (which they frequently do), I switch off from them and either find a quiet place to be alone or immerse myself in reading. And when I don't want to go to Church because I don't want to speak to anyone (which happens to me often), I have learnt to grit my teeth, pray for strength and smile anyway, remembering that the real reason I'm going is that I personally need to go for me and my well being. I have been through years of not going to church and so I know what the outcome will be for me if I stop going, even for one week. I know its not easy, but it is necessary. Edited September 4, 2015 by sheilauk 2
Rain Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 Duncan - from what you have said about your stake I can kind of understand her point of view.I kind of deal with the drama with a "Baptists at Our Barbecue" kind of way. Just love the people. Sometimes for their quirks and sometimes in spite of your them. Sometimes I get irritable, but I find if I take the matter to Heavenly Father I almost always get a better view of the people, or how to love them or how to have the strength to deal with them. 4
Popular Post bluebell Posted September 4, 2015 Popular Post Posted September 4, 2015 not to be a jerk, but... https://xkcd.com/1124/ Sad but true. I honestly can't think of the last time i had to deal with any drama at church, probably because I don't cultivate it in my life. If someone bugs me, i just don't hang out with them. If someone does something that i think is snarky, i.......just don't hang out with them. If someone says something stupid...... You get the idea. You can be annoyed with someone or disagree without getting one drop of drama on you. I don't think some people understand that though. 7
Robert F. Smith Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 The separate the Gospel from the people argument is spurious. The Gospel is the people. Heaven is filled with people. Existence is dealing with people. The people are the same that are here. I am fine with a Terrestrial or Telestial existence if that is where the people I am around will be. I'm fine being a blue collar inhabitant in Heaven. Drama exists any time you have more than one person in a group. I don't know of a decent argument for this issue. This is basically the central issue that led to me leaving the Church. There were other issues, but really those issues were the result of the drama factor.I'll bet that this is the real reason why most people who leave the Church (at least for a time) do so. Too much drama.
The Nehor Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 not to be a jerk, but... https://xkcd.com/1124/This.If you do not play the drama game it is all but impossible to get sucked in. Then again I was raised in a family where if you tried to kick up drama you were ignored so it is almost second nature to me.
Duncan Posted September 4, 2015 Author Posted September 4, 2015 Duncan - from what you have said about your stake I can kind of understand her point of view.I kind of deal with the drama with a "Baptists at Our Barbecue" kind of way. Just love the people. Sometimes for their quirks and sometimes in spite of your them. Sometimes I get irritable, but I find if I take the matter to Heavenly Father I almost always get a better view of the people, or how to love them or how to have the strength to deal with them. Thank you! I just think we can have it so much better!! I am a true Canadian, so I feel embarassed for others! 1
ERayR Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 I have a friend who's been inactive for some years. I am hoping to at least minimize her harshing on the Church. One point she brought up was what is the point of studying and reading and attending classes when it all falls apart when dealing with the drama in the Church. Knowing that this or that happened or what this scripture means doesn't help you in dealing with some holier than thou speaker or all kinds of problems that you deal with at Church and with the Church. You get enough drama at work or home, you don't need it at church. I have no idea what to say. Any clues or tips? I notice that a lot of these drama incidents are precipitated when a speaker or a teacher comments on a persons favorite sin. What you say to your friend depends on how much frankness your friendship can withstand.
Duncan Posted September 4, 2015 Author Posted September 4, 2015 I notice that a lot of these drama incidents are precipitated when a speaker or a teacher comments on a persons favorite sin. What you say to your friend depends on how much frankness your friendship can withstand. well, we are pretty open with each other but she also talks to others so she gets it from them too or facebook-the real ward council now! hahahahhahha!
mfbukowski Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 The separate the Gospel from the people argument is spurious. The Gospel is the people. Heaven is filled with people. Existence is dealing with people. The people are the same that are here. I am fine with a Terrestrial or Telestial existence if that is where the people I am around will be. I'm fine being a blue collar inhabitant in Heaven. Drama exists any time you have more than one person in a group. I don't know of a decent argument for this issue. This is basically the central issue that led to me leaving the Church. There were other issues, but really those issues were the result of the drama factor.You are really confusing me. How do you square all this with believing that science is the only way to learn? How could you even believe in any sort of "heaven" at all??
mfbukowski Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 Invite her to come here. There's no drama here!Yeah same here. But people are people and yes, drama can be found if you are looking for it. I go to church to serve and try to help people. That's quite enough for me. Sometimes the spirit testifies of a principle with great force and I learn a lot all at one time. On both counts, it's clearly worth the time spent. 1
mfbukowski Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 That is fine. However, it is still the same issue. The Gospel as defined here is about getting people to Heaven. Those people are the members of the Church. The Gospel, given your definition, seems to be Christ, the people and their relationship. So a large part of the Gospel is still the people.See- this is what bugs me How is this statement scientifically verifiable? Yet it seems clear you believe your position to be true. I am definitely confused 1
Jacob Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 See- this is what bugs me How is this statement scientifically verifiable? Yet it seems clear you believe your position to be true. I am definitely confusedSee my response in that thread.
Crypto Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 Words of wisdom are for personal growth. The purpose of reading scripture is to aid causing a change within us. It is a guide book on principles of action, not a robotic step by step instruction set on how to deal with everything.I would simply disagree that the scriptures and lessons in church don't help with 'drama', it's just that people are all at different stages of development in how they apply it to their lives. Proverbs 26:20 Where no wood is, there the fire goeth out: so where there is no talebearer, the strife ceaseth.or another words:20 Without wood a fire goes out; without a gossip a quarrel dies down. 2
rpn Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 Drama is different things to different people. I'd have to know the specifics to make any suggestions.
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