Teancum Posted August 23, 2015 Posted August 23, 2015 I have a private gospel study each week on Monday night. Usually with just my family, but occasionally with other families and individuals. I am pretty sure the church approves of it. Nah I think you are on the high road to apostasy and hell.... Just kidding!
Thinking Posted August 23, 2015 Posted August 23, 2015 All this talk about whether the brethren would approve of such a meeting reminds me of a scripture I learned in seminary. D&C 58:26-29For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward. Verily I say, men should be anxiously engaged in a good cause, and do many things of their own free will, and bring to pass much righteousness; For the power is in them, wherein they are agents unto themselves. And inasmuch as men do good they shall in nowise lose their reward. But he that doeth not anything until he is commanded, and receiveth a commandment with doubtful heart, and keepeth it with slothfulness, the same is damned. Yet LDS culture has evolved to the point where the some members feel like they have to get permission for everything. Part of that is the development of the Church Handbook of Instructions. The CHI contains the doctrine of allowable actions for members of the LDS Church. 1
The Nehor Posted August 23, 2015 Posted August 23, 2015 What if I want to set up a group that is about training for ultimate fighting?That would probably not be a church group. Members may attend but it is not specifically about your faith.
Calm Posted August 23, 2015 Posted August 23, 2015 My complaints about you and why they almost threw you out were based on your attacks that were personal in nature and hence broke board rules. But they didn't throw him out so it is possible the mods did not see your complaints as valid (in total)and in their view he wasn't breaking the rules (in every post you claimed he was). Unless they confirmed your opinion each time you complained about him, I don't see how you can draw that conclusion.
The Nehor Posted August 23, 2015 Posted August 23, 2015 All this talk about whether the brethren would approve of such a meeting reminds me of a scripture I learned in seminary. D&C 58:26-29 Yet LDS culture has evolved to the point where the some members feel like they have to get permission for everything. Part of that is the development of the Church Handbook of Instructions. The CHI contains the doctrine of allowable actions for members of the LDS Church.Indeed. One would think God wouldn't have to tell us that gathering those transitioning out of their faith together to reinforce each other is a bad thing but here we are.
Teancum Posted August 23, 2015 Posted August 23, 2015 Are you announcing anything about these get togethers at church or is it just by invitation or word of mouth? If you're not going around at church discussing it or announcing it, it's your business who you invite into your home. ETA: BUT, if your leaders start getting word that you're doing anything to destroy testimonies or education members about negative aspects of the church or its history, I do believe then they have a right as your leader to ask you about these meetings. Maybe invite some who are complaining to join you so they can see what these meetings are for? Like I said... the Church wants it members to be like children in respect to their position over them.
The Nehor Posted August 23, 2015 Posted August 23, 2015 Like I said... the Church wants it members to be like children in respect to their position over them.And the church takes its orders from God who knows we are all children in relation to him so it makes perfect sense. We want to not be treated like children but we act like them so God takes us as we are, 3
Bob Crockett Posted August 23, 2015 Posted August 23, 2015 as long as it is not personal I welcome divergent views as deserving space. My complaints about you and why they almost threw you out were based on your attacks that were personal in nature and hence broke board rules. You do acknowledge that right? otherwise all views are welcome within board rules. I just don't have to agree with them.
JulieM Posted August 23, 2015 Posted August 23, 2015 DBMormon, I wish there was a group like yours meeting in our ward or stake. I know of so many who could benefit from meetings with others who they can open up to, discuss, share and help each other.Keep up the good work as it's obvious you do care. 3
Bob Crockett Posted August 23, 2015 Posted August 23, 2015 as long as it is not personal I welcome divergent views as deserving space. My complaints about you and why they almost threw you out were based on your attacks that were personal in nature and hence broke board rules. You do acknowledge that right? otherwise all views are welcome within board rules. I just don't have to agree with them.I don't agree. If you don't want people poking fun at your claims of a high IQ then don't make the claims. But I don't see anything wrong with your meetings.
carbon dioxide Posted August 23, 2015 Posted August 23, 2015 Like I said... the Church wants it members to be like children in respect to their position over them.The Church treats the members like a parent treats their kids. They are concerned about them and don't want them to run with the wrong crowd. Sometimes the church is a little overprotective but its overall intention is good. 1
ALarson Posted August 23, 2015 Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) DBMormon, I wish there was a group like yours meeting in our ward or stake. I know of so many who could benefit from meetings with others who they can open up to, discuss, share and help each other.Keep up the good work as it's obvious you do care.We do have a group in our ward that started out just informally discussing the church essays as they were released. We actually started discussing them in the hallway or foyer during the Sunday School hour (and one of the bishopric members was a part of the discussion). The Bishop did ask us to take the discussion outside of the 3 hour block (and support the SS teachers by attending class) and I got that. The Bishop now has asked us (members in that group) to help him teach the essays to the rest of the ward. So, we do have his full support with our discussion group so far. I think if we started going astray at all, he'd be comfortable telling us too. Edited August 23, 2015 by ALarson 1
JLHPROF Posted August 23, 2015 Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) This topic has come up on this board on occasion - here, here, and here for instance. I can find NUMEROUS references claiming that the Church, to quote just one site, "officially discourages its members from having private meetings or study groups outside of the regular meeting schedule or sanctioned events." but not a single one of them links back to the Church source of this discouragement. It really did seem to start around the time of the September 6. Edited August 23, 2015 by JLHPROF
DBMormon Posted August 23, 2015 Author Posted August 23, 2015 What do you mean by "faith transition"? Leaving the church? Having doubts and decided to stay?People who recognize their faith is changing and I would add are feeling angst and separation over it as they see it distancing them from their faith community. what my hope is to show them this is normal and that if they seek to allow christ to change their foundation and feel empowered to reconstruct their faith that it is possible to do so in a way that allows them to remain in.thisHow do you mentor someone who is going through the dark night of the soul? Very patiently. High-level mentors are a precious resource at this time. Suffering people will dump their hurt, frustrations, anger and loneliness on you. Don’t offer answers the way Job’s friends did, just be present with them. Avoid shock, just listen and empathize with them as they wrestle with traumatic memories and regret. Share your own dark night (if you haven’t been through it you probably can’t be much help). Assure them that what they are going through is normal in the walk with God. Share the stories of Elijah, Job, Peter and Jesus. Radiate your own acceptance of them as a token of God’s acceptance. Forgive them as needed and encourage them to experience the forgiveness of God. In most cases the day will come when the dark night ends and they will be able to move on. Some people may have to experience the dark night more than once in order make it through, but eventually, if they stay the course, they can move on.
CV75 Posted August 23, 2015 Posted August 23, 2015 There is a certain private group of LDS who meet together in a private group setting to discuss that my group of people meeting together should not happen and that it frustrates them that I would be doing such as groups of LDS meeting outside of the church could be dangerous.Please provide more information about this group – sounds intriguing! LOL I think the most effective comfort we can render someone outside the church-sponsored meeting (whether large or small) and family setting is individual, one-on-one attention. We all have the Gift of the Holy Ghost to accomplish this, and plenty of opportunity to observe the baptismal covenant of Mosiah 18. I’ve found that a small, specialized group identity (often unintentionally) encourages cliquishness, fostering enmity with the larger body and fellowship of saints. There is also a tendency for the members of a special group to perpetuate rather than overcome the identity that brought them together. There are some interesting examples of extra-ecclesiastical, small-group formations in the Book of Mormon that show that, however well-intentioned, lack the advantage of the priesthood or inspiration necessary for the members’ long-term happiness. I think it is better to foster unity and trust for President Hinckley’s counsel to flourish: “Every one …needs three things: a friend, a responsibility, and nurturing with ‘the good word of God’ (Moro. 6:4).” 1
DBMormon Posted August 23, 2015 Author Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) But they didn't throw him out so it is possible the mods did not see your complaints as valid (in total)and in their view he wasn't breaking the rules (in every post you claimed he was). Unless they confirmed your opinion each time you complained about him, I don't see how you can draw that conclusion.Actually I do because they messaged me and told me once more and bob was out indefinitely.. He and I both know this is the case... You seem eager to state things you have no knowledge of. Edited August 23, 2015 by DBMormon
The Nehor Posted August 23, 2015 Posted August 23, 2015 Actually I do because they messaged me and told me once more and bob was out indefinitely.. He and I both know this is the case... You seem eager to state things you have no knowledge of. Your board credibility is definitely bolstered by this as it shows how amazingly adept at interneting you are.
DBMormon Posted August 23, 2015 Author Posted August 23, 2015 DBMormon, I wish there was a group like yours meeting in our ward or stake. I know of so many who could benefit from meetings with others who they can open up to, discuss, share and help each other.Keep up the good work as it's obvious you do care.Thank you 1
Bernard Gui Posted August 23, 2015 Posted August 23, 2015 DBMormon, I wish there was a group like yours meeting in our ward or stake. I know of so many who could benefit from meetings with others who they can open up to, discuss, share and help each other.Keep up the good work as it's obvious you do care.Perhaps....but only if it were done with the Stake President's knowledge and permission.
busybee Posted August 23, 2015 Posted August 23, 2015 Do I actually need permission? See, you state that I will do what I want with or without permission but no one requires permission be asked. Do you ask permission to go to sleep at night? Do you ask permission to drive your car to work? no and it is silly because permission is not required. Neither is it here. So why did you ask if you know the answer to your question? Are you looking for a disagreement? 4
Bernard Gui Posted August 23, 2015 Posted August 23, 2015 We do have a group in our ward that started out just informally discussing the church essays as they were released. We actually started discussing them in the hallway or foyer during the Sunday School hour (and one of the bishopric members was a part of the discussion). The Bishop did ask us to take the discussion outside of the 3 hour block (and support the SS teachers by attending class) and I got that. The Bishop now has asked us (members in that group) to help him teach the essays to the rest of the ward. So, we do have his full support with our discussion group so far. I think if we started going astray at all, he'd be comfortable telling us too.And that, of course, is the whole point of getting the ward/stake leadership involved. 1
DBMormon Posted August 23, 2015 Author Posted August 23, 2015 Your board credibility is definitely bolstered by this as it shows how amazingly adept at interneting you are.Can you have the sprit of contention while also having the spirit of the holy ghost
Popular Post Bernard Gui Posted August 23, 2015 Popular Post Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) People who recognize their faith is changing and I would add are feeling angst and separation over it as they see it distancing them from their faith community. what my hope is to show them this is normal and that if they seek to allow christ to change their foundation and feel empowered to reconstruct their faith that it is possible to do so in a way that allows them to remain in.thisHow do you mentor someone who is going through the dark night of the soul? Very patiently. High-level mentors are a precious resource at this time. Suffering people will dump their hurt, frustrations, anger and loneliness on you. Don’t offer answers the way Job’s friends did, just be present with them. Avoid shock, just listen and empathize with them as they wrestle with traumatic memories and regret. Share your own dark night (if you haven’t been through it you probably can’t be much help). Assure them that what they are going through is normal in the walk with God. Share the stories of Elijah, Job, Peter and Jesus. Radiate your own acceptance of them as a token of God’s acceptance. Forgive them as needed and encourage them to experience the forgiveness of God. In most cases the day will come when the dark night ends and they will be able to move on. Some people may have to experience the dark night more than once in order make it through, but eventually, if they stay the course, they can move on.Seems to me that this kind of "faith counseling" should be handled by those who have the keys to administer it. Perhaps a visit with the bishop/stake president in which you make your case for such a meeting would be the best way to settle the issue. This board is not the best place to get such permissions. Giving them forgiveness really raises a red flag for me. That is not your stewardship. Edited August 23, 2015 by Bernard Gui 6
DBMormon Posted August 23, 2015 Author Posted August 23, 2015 Perhaps....but only if it were done with the Stake President's knowledge and permission.Cfr for where such things need permission
Bernard Gui Posted August 23, 2015 Posted August 23, 2015 This reminds me somewhat of the debate society organized by William Smith in Kirtland. That didn't turn out well.
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