Looking For A First Presidency Letter

[rongo]

I've seen a couple of these, but don't have a stash of files. 

 

I'm looking for a copy (or just text) of the most recent letters warning members about study groups or groups who meet and purposely strive to remain outside of priesthood control. A concerned member called my wife and asked what she should do about a new couple who have been holding meetings in their home about Roger K. Young type stuff (I asked my wife to ask her if the book that is being circulated in the ward is by him ---- from the description, I'm pretty sure it is). They are also critical of the bishopric, and secretive (insisting that things said in the meeting remain in the meeting, quoting unnamed General Authorities who cannot be unmasked yet, but who support the cause. Something about groups living in communes whose ticket of admission will be their food storage. Etc.). 

 

My wife calmed her down, and I am going to encourage her to talk to the bishop (or I will, if she really doesn't want to ---- she's a nervous sort who I can see not wanting to do that). But, a lot of this couple's behavior sounds a lot like some of the warnings in the letters, and I want to have a copy or the text handy. 

 

And I thought when we got weird letters from Salt Lake, it always stemmed from things going on in the Wasatch Front . . .

 

Thanks in advance!

[Freedom]

I do not recall such a letter in the past few years so it may have been a local letter. We received a letter concerning scout fundraising and camps, and another one concerning child abuse. Sometimes a bishop receives letters that are not read over the pulpit, but are to be discussed in ward council. I have not been in ward council for over a year.

[rongo]

This is definitely a letter to be read over the pulpit. It has come out fairly regularly for years now, for quite some time. Until now, I've never had anything close to matching the circumstances.

[JAHS]

The Church handbook states the following in the "Self-Awareness groups" section:

 

Church members should not participate in groups that:

• 1. Challenge religious and moral values or advocate unwarranted confrontation with spouse or family members as a means of reaching one's potential.

• 2. Imitate sacred rites or ceremonies.

• 3. Foster physical contact among participants.

• 4. Meet late into the evening or in the early-morning hours.

• 5. Encourage open confession or disclosure of personal information normally discussed only in confidential settings.

• 6. Cause a husband and wife to be paired with other partners.

• Church leaders are not to pay for, encourage participation in, or promote such groups or practices. Also, Church facilities may not be used for these activities. Local leaders should counsel members that true self-improvement comes through living gospel principles. Members who have social or emotional problems may consult with priesthood leaders for guidance in identifying sources of help that are in harmony with gospel principles.
•  

[rongo]

Must be another Wasatch Front thing . . .

 

It isn't that one; this one is about people meeting in homes in settings that can cause people to follow charismatic leaders outside of priesthood channels.

 

Does anyone know if Roger K. Young has been excommunicated? Does he have anything to do with the Tent City movement?

[JAHS]

James Harmstrom started "The True and Living Church of Jesus Christ of Saints of the Last Days" in Manti from an LDS study group he formed in 1990. Nothing good came from that particular "study group".

[Calm]

Rongo, I posted your request to the FairMormon elist, hopefully someone there will known something.  Would ward clerks be aware of such if by chance they didn't get read across the pulpit (perhaps the bishop didn't think it was a problem in his ward...)?  If so, I can ask my husband if he knows of it.

[rongo]

Only if they were filing letters in paper form. The online cache of letters for bishoprics is only "selected" letters, and doesn't go back very far at all. 

[Duncan]

Maybe check our Elder Oaks 1989? talk, "Alternative Voices" maybe he mentions stuff like that there, I could chekc myself but I am trying to hold a bowl of popcorn and drink my diet pepsi at the same time and do this, ah the single life

[Calm]

So far the awareness groups letter is it, but perhaps this may help...or hurt:

 

http://www.latterdayconservative.com/blog/study-groups/

[Calm]

 

The Church handbook states the following in the "Self-Awareness groups" section:

 

Church members should not participate in groups that:

• 1. Challenge religious and moral values or advocate unwarranted confrontation with spouse or family members as a means of reaching one's potential.

• 2. Imitate sacred rites or ceremonies.

• 3. Foster physical contact among participants.

• 4. Meet late into the evening or in the early-morning hours.

• 5. Encourage open confession or disclosure of personal information normally discussed only in confidential settings.

• 6. Cause a husband and wife to be paired with other partners.

• Church leaders are not to pay for, encourage participation in, or promote such groups or practices. Also, Church facilities may not be used for these activities. Local leaders should counsel members that true self-improvement comes through living gospel principles. Members who have social or emotional problems may consult with priesthood leaders for guidance in identifying sources of help that are in harmony with gospel principles.
•  

 

Here is the letter that mirrors this:

 

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=gmail&attid=0.1&thid=1420bf98ae0250a0&mt=application/pdf&url=https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui%3D2%26ik%3D56ba4425de%26view%3Datt%26th%3D1420bf98ae0250a0%26attid%3D0.1%26disp%3Dsafe%26zw&sig=AHIEtbQRXJFYe5TJDWH63tI18EdNc9BpSQ

[Calm]

Not a letter, but something that could be applied that can be found in Handbook 2 as well as 1:

 

 

 

Symposia and Similar Gatherings

The Church warns its members against symposia and similar gatherings that include presentations that (1) disparage, ridicule, make light of, or are otherwise inappropriate in their treatment of sacred matters or (2) could injure the Church, detract from its mission, or jeopardize its members’ well-being. Members should not allow their position or standing in the Church to be used to promote or imply endorsement of such gatherings.

 

[cdowis]

I think one specific concern was "making your election sure" group meetings.

[DBMormon]

To take this another direction.  Let say there was a desire to hold a Church History Study Group where a more indepth look at LDS history would take place.  Would this be in violation of any church council or directive?

[Duncan]

To take this another direction.  Let say there was a desire to hold a Church History Study Group where a more indepth look at LDS history would take place.  Would this be in violation of any church council or directive?

 

 

in our ward we have a lady who acts like a mother hen to new converts and whatnot and she holds a meeting. They come out of there with her strange ideas and everyone on the ward council who has these people in their classes or whatever has to deal with them sharing funny ideas. The Bishop won't shut it down or won't talk to her or anything. So, we just have to deal with it as best as we can

[rongo]

To take this another direction.  Let say there was a desire to hold a Church History Study Group where a more indepth look at LDS history would take place.  Would this be in violation of any church council or directive?

That's not actually another direction at all ---- it's the spirit and the letter of the counsel. There should not be study groups of any kind taking place in homes because it's outside of priesthood supervision and too easily devolves into a parallel "leader-disciple" structure (with the study group members believing that they are cutting edge/avant garde and Church leaders are behind the curve). Even with the best of intentions. Free from priesthood oversight, people teach their unique ideas and gain followings, again, free from priesthood oversight.

 

I would include your particular brand/take/orientation of helping doubting members as something that shouldn't be done via home study groups, Bill. 

 

Appropriate conversations about "deep" things are best done as friends and individuals, not in formal study groups where people encourage others to attend and "snowball" the following.

[hoo rider]

 

The Church handbook states the following in the "Self-Awareness groups" section:

 

Church members should not participate in groups that:

• 1. Challenge religious and moral values or advocate unwarranted confrontation with spouse or family members as a means of reaching one's potential.

• 2. Imitate sacred rites or ceremonies.

• 3. Foster physical contact among participants.

• 4. Meet late into the evening or in the early-morning hours.

• 5. Encourage open confession or disclosure of personal information normally discussed only in confidential settings.

• 6. Cause a husband and wife to be paired with other partners.

• Church leaders are not to pay for, encourage participation in, or promote such groups or practices. Also, Church facilities may not be used for these activities. Local leaders should counsel members that true self-improvement comes through living gospel principles. Members who have social or emotional problems may consult with priesthood leaders for guidance in identifying sources of help that are in harmony with gospel principles.
•  

 

We've got such a group in our ward right now.  I haven't been, but my understanding is that they meet 5 days per week early in the morning (in violation of the above counsel) to discuss gospel topics.  I heard that they spent a whole year diving into church history issues.  Be careful, I think there might be similar groups meeting in other areas.  In my ward, they call this group "seminary".  

[rongo]

We've got such a group in our ward right now.  I haven't been, but my understanding is that they meet 5 days per week early in the morning (in violation of the above counsel) to discuss gospel topics.  I heard that they spent a whole year diving into church history issues.  Be careful, I think there might be similar groups meeting in other areas.  In my ward, they call this group "seminary".  

I know you're kidding, but the key is that it is under priesthood/Church oversight. If such a thing were going outside of seminary, it would be a concern.

[hoo rider]

I know you're kidding, but the key is that it is under priesthood/Church oversight. If such a thing were going outside of seminary, it would be a concern.

Half in jest, half in snark.  

 

CFR that the key is that the meetings be under priesthood/church oversight.  Interestingly, the 2001 letter doesn't say anything about that.  The introductory paragraph of the letter references "commercial enterprises" and then quotes a section in the old handbook that refers to "groups".  I didn't see anything in the new handbook 2 that is similar to the handbook section quoted in the letter.  It might be in the new handbook 1, but I don't have a copy.  

[rongo]

I think that calmoriah's cite in post #12 applies more than the one you're referring to about self-help groups. That is, groups or meetings that "could injure the Church, detract from its mission, or jeopardize its members’ well-being. Members should not allow their position or standing in the Church to be used to promote or imply endorsement of such gatherings." The problem with such things (like the one in my ward, which I have confirmed is a Roger K. Young "tent city" thing) is precisely that they are outside of priesthood control, designedly so.

 

I'm not saying that many of these don't originate with good people or that they aren't well-intentioned, but they tend to result in the concentration of gospel hobbyists (my wife calls them "one trick ponies," people who plunk on one or two keys incessantly rather than using all the keys) without the balance that open, "correlated" meetings bring about.

[Kenngo1969]

In the vein of Gospel hobbies ... (I don't want to derail your thread, so if this is too tangential, let me know and I'll take it down ...)

 

http://www.lds.org/ensign/1994/10/our-strengths-can-become-our-downfall