If You Got To The Other Side And...

[JLHPROF]

Here's a little speculative thread inspired by the "opposing viewpoints" thread:

 

If you got to the other side and found out that "insert doctrinal thing you really don't like" were true, how would you come to terms with it?

 

I will give an example:

If I got to the other side and found out that "all the ordinance changes WERE approved by God" I would probably ask the prophets why they taught that it shouldn't be done.  I would be unable to dispute that they were right because God IS perfect, so I would have to accept that the gospel is more subjective and malleable than I have always believed.

 

I've always joked that I'd like the job of greeting atheists as they pass through the veil or letting all the evangelicals know that Mormonism was the true religion after all.  But that is a bit of silly humour.

What discovery upon passing through the veil would absolutely blow your mind and how would you handle it?

 

Some possible items:

- What if women really do end up subject to their husbands eternally?

- What if Joseph Smith really is going to judge us all?

- What if polygamy is required for the highest exaltation?

- What if our leaders were right about all their current teachings, even the ones we don't like?

- What if our leaders were wrong about many of the current teachings we hold fast to?

- What if God is displeased with a position we took?

- What if God/Heavenly Father really is Adam from the garden?

- What if women really can/cannot hold the priesthood?

- What if SS relationships did/did not exist beyond the veil?

 

These are just some topics that have come up again and again on this board.  How would you handle it if your position turned out to be completely wrong?

So how would you handle it if something you truly believe turns out to be false?

Edited March 26, 2015 by JLHPROF

[strappinglad]

First of all there would be a lot of " ya buts " expressed.

Ya but I was taught

Ya but the Bible says

Ya but what about...

Perhaps some would convince themselves that what they experience is not the REAL reality.

[Ahab]

First of all there would be a lot of " ya buts " expressed.

Ya but I was taught

Ya but the Bible says

Ya but what about...

Perhaps some would convince themselves that what they experience is not the REAL reality.

Which gets us to the question:

How do we know when we are right, or wrong?

Where we end up and who we end up with may not necessarily sway us one way or another. Some people don't even know who is really God.

[pogi]

I would be mad as a devil (no pun intended) if Ala banishes me to hell.  I would be weirded out if Adam welcomed me to heaven.

 

If you are just talking about doctrinal thingies within Mormonism - I think I am adaptable for the most part.  My wife would be furious over polygamy, so that might be awkward. 

[The Nehor]

- What if women really do end up subject to their husbands eternally?

 

Oh well, subjection to perfection is what we are supposed to be doing to God anyways.

 

- What if Joseph Smith really is going to judge us all?

 

Cool!

 

- What if polygamy is required for the highest exaltation?

 

With jealousy and insecurity gone due to the state we are in and our limited ability to care for our spouses due to constraints on time, wisdom, and resources I don't see a problem whether I have a hundred wives or one. I also would not have a problem with my wives other husbands.

 

- What if our leaders were right about all their current teachings, even the ones we don't like?

 

I expect this. If I liked every teaching in the church I would either have been translated or suspect I was creating in my own image.

 

- What if our leaders were wrong about many of the current teachings we hold fast to?

 

If they came from the Brethren sounds like their problem. If we bought into silly teachings with no scriptural foundation or support from the leaders sounds like we should stop doing that.

 

- What if God is displeased with a position we took?

 

I will be corrected or go to hell. Hopefully the former.

 

- What if God/Heavenly Father really is Adam from the garden?

 

Confused but whatever.

 

- What if women really can/cannot hold the priesthood?

 

Meh either way.

 

- What if SS relationships did exist beyond the veil?

 

Then I hope my wives have hot husbands and are willing to share.

[Sleeper Cell]

Here's a little speculative thread inspired by the "opposing viewpoints" thread:

 

If you got to the other side and found out that "insert doctrinal thing you really don't like" were true, how would you come to terms with it?

 

I've always joked that I'd like the job of greeting atheists as they pass through the veil or letting all the evangelicals know that Mormonism was the true religion after all.  But that is a bit of silly humour.

 

Besides, South Park beat you to it.  

[Avatar4321]

I'd probably just accept it

[JLHPROF]

I'd probably just accept it

 

Well I think that's a given.  We wouldn't have much choice.

But I am curious how we think we would adjust to something that really goes against our grain.  Especially if it is not a guess but a for sure in the next life.

 

 

“There has been a great difficulty in getting anything into the heads of this generation. It has been like splitting hemlock knots with a corn-dodger [a piece of corn bread] for a wedge, and a pumpkin for a beetle [a wooden mallet]. Even the Saints are slow to understand.

I have tried for a number of years to get the minds of the Saints prepared to receive the things of God; but we frequently see some of them, after suffering all they have for the work of God, will fly to pieces like glass as soon as anything comes that is contrary to their traditions: they cannot stand the fire at all."

Edited March 26, 2015 by JLHPROF

[JLHPROF]

 

- What if women really do end up subject to their husbands eternally?

 

Oh well, subjection to perfection is what we are supposed to be doing to God anyways.

 

- What if Joseph Smith really is going to judge us all?

 

Cool!

 

- What if polygamy is required for the highest exaltation?

 

With jealousy and insecurity gone due to the state we are in and our limited ability to care for our spouses due to constraints on time, wisdom, and resources I don't see a problem whether I have a hundred wives or one. I also would not have a problem with my wives other husbands.

 

- What if our leaders were right about all their current teachings, even the ones we don't like?

 

I expect this. If I liked every teaching in the church I would either have been translated or suspect I was creating in my own image.

 

- What if our leaders were wrong about many of the current teachings we hold fast to?

 

If they came from the Brethren sounds like their problem. If we bought into silly teachings with no scriptural foundation or support from the leaders sounds like we should stop doing that.

 

- What if God is displeased with a position we took?

 

I will be corrected or go to hell. Hopefully the former.

 

- What if God/Heavenly Father really is Adam from the garden?

 

Confused but whatever.

 

- What if women really can/cannot hold the priesthood?

 

Meh either way.

 

- What if SS relationships did exist beyond the veil?

 

Then I hope my wives have hot husbands and are willing to share.

 

 

But those are apparently things that you don't have a firm feeling on.

What about "If you got to the other side and found out that "insert doctrinal thing you really don't like" were true, how would you come to terms with it?"

 

How would you adjust to something there that would really bug you if it were confirmed as true?

[The Nehor]

But those are apparently things that you don't have a firm feeling on.

What about "If you got to the other side and found out that "insert doctrinal thing you really don't like" were true, how would you come to terms with it?"

 

How would you adjust to something there that would really bug you if it were confirmed as true?

I think the key is to not care that much.

Seriously, I am hopefully in paradise at that point. If not I am in hell. What doctrinal point is going to faze me in either condition?

[carbon dioxide]

What if women really do end up subject to their husbands eternally?

 

My first decree will be to set her free.

 

What if Joseph Smith really is going to judge us all?

 

As long as I am judged fairly, I don't care who does it.

 

What if polygamy is required for the highest exaltation?

 

I guess I will not be exalted.

 

What if our leaders were right about all their current teachings, even the ones we don't like?

 

I can't find many I have had a problem with.  I am ok with that

 

What if our leaders were wrong about many of the current teachings we hold fast to?

 

I would ask God why he authored confusion or did nothing to correct the problem.  If our church leaders are wrong on most of the stuff, it is not their fault but God being slothful in running the Church.

 

What if God is displeased with a position we took?

 

It would be God's job to correct that position.  Why have prophets/apostles if they will are not used to correct a position. 

 

What if God/Heavenly Father really is Adam from the garden?

 

I would ask why God created confusion in the Church.

 

What if women really can/cannot hold the priesthood?

 

If women can have the priesthood, great.  Means less work for me.  I can pawn off responsibilities to the women.

 

What if SS relationships did/did not exist beyond the veil?

 

I will ask for a transfer to the Terrestrial Kingdom if they do.

Edited March 26, 2015 by carbon dioxide

[3DOP]

If I hate it in heaven, if I am permanently ill disposed to God's truth and goodness, then Heck would be my best option.

[JLHPROF]

Some great responses Carbon.  A couple stood out to me.

 

 

What if polygamy is required for the highest exaltation?

 

I guess I will not be exalted.

 

So if you got to the other side and were given the opportunity to become exactly as God is and it required plural marriage you would turn it down?

How about if Brigham's other teaching was right and refusing polygamy would result in the loss of your one wife?  Is refusing polygamy worth losing your wife?

 

 

What if our leaders were wrong about many of the current teachings we hold fast to?

 

I would ask God why he authored confusion or did nothing to correct the problem.  If our church leaders are wrong on most of the stuff, it is not their fault but God being slothful in running the Church.

 

I can understand that.

 

What if God is displeased with a position we took?

 

It would be God's job to correct that position.  Why have prophets/apostles if they will are not used to correct a position. 

 

Well surely you have some responsibility to seek out truth from God yourself.  Nobody is getting into the Celestial Kingdom on anyone elses coattails, not even the President of the Church's coattails.

[carbon dioxide]

Some great responses Carbon.  A couple stood out to me.

 

So if you got to the other side and were given the opportunity to become exactly as God is and it required plural marriage you would turn it down?

How about if Brigham's other teaching was right and refusing polygamy would result in the loss of your one wife?  Is refusing polygamy worth losing your wife?

I am a big defender in the practice of polygamy both in the Bible and in the early days of the Church.  Its not something I want or desire.  One wife is more than enough for me. I would probably be on heavy medication if polygamy was practiced today and I had to do it.    Perhaps Brigham Young was wrong on that.

 

[JLHPROF]

 

I am a big defender in the practice of polygamy both in the Bible and in the early days of the Church.  Its not something I want or desire.  One wife is more than enough for me. I would probably be on heavy medication if polygamy was practiced today and I had to do it.    Perhaps Brigham Young was wrong on that.

 

 

 

The current Church says he was.

The speculation for this thread is "what if he was right and the Church today is wrong"?

If I was asking someone from Brigham's day I'd probably ask the opposite.  Curious how strong our determination is in the face of the unvoidable.

There actually are people who would give up all their gospel blessings if they had to accept a doctrine that rubs them the wrong way now.

[Ahab]

The current Church says he was.

The speculation for this thread is "what if he was right and the Church today is wrong"?

If I was asking someone from Brigham's day I'd probably ask the opposite. Curious how strong our determination is in the face of the unvoidable.

There actually are people who would give up all their gospel blessings if they had to accept a doctrine that rubs them the wrong way now.

Nobody is going to have to accept a doctrine that rubs them the wrong way though. People will even be able to continue to think they are right when they are really wrong. So, seriously, how is anyone going to know what is right and what is wrong, and who they should believe?

I know how I'll figure it out. I'll just keep listening to the same still small voice I listen to now, unless maybe his voice sounds even louder to me then than right now. And some other guy coming to me saying things contrary to what God is telling me now is not going to sway me in the least to changing my mind.

Like if someone said something like: Hey Ahab! That isn't God! You're confused! This is the guy, or better yet, I am the one you should be listening to!

I'll be like: Noooooo. I know better than to believe that.

[Freedom]

I cannot think of any doctrines or practices that I take issue with so I guess I will be just fine. 

[Storm Rider]

These types of questions are based upon the faulty idea that we are the same person i.e. have the same attitudes in heaven that we do at this moment in our lives.  We are not done living and learning yet so the question has little real value when addressing or put in the context of eternity.

 

I believe that heaven is being in complete union with the Godhead.  By the extension of God's grace we become one with him; this automatically disposes of these types of "ego" positions or problems.  The challenge is this life; here is where we see through a veil and are easily mislead by our own carnal minds and passions.  

[Buckeye]

What if women really do end up subject to their husbands eternally?

 

My first decree will be to set her free.

 

...

 

I agree with most of your comments, but in particular this one. Whenever someone in the church (ususually an older HP) insists that I am the lone presider in my home I ask "do you really mean that?" When he answers "yes," I say "great, then as the lone presider my first act is to give equal presiding authority to my wife." When the member insists "no, you must be the lone presider" I simply point out that if he really believed I was the presider he would stop telling me how to preside.

 

 

 

 

What if SS relationships did/did not exist beyond the veil?

 

I will ask for a transfer to the Terrestrial Kingdom if they do.

 

This one puzzles me. If SSM is allowed in the celestial kingdom, why on earth do you think SS relationships would not also be happening in the Terrestial Kingdom? You'd really rather live for eternity in a place where gays have relationships outside marriage than to see them in committed relationships?

[CV75]

If you got to the other side and found out that "insert doctrinal thing you really don't like" were true, how would you come to terms with it?

Repent, just like i do now!

[Ahab]

Repent, just like i do now!

...unless you really didn't think you needed to, and then you wouldn't.

Right?

Can you offer any clarification on how you would supposedly find out that you were wrong about something?

[JLHPROF]

I cannot think of any doctrines or practices that I take issue with so I guess I will be just fine. 

 

You've taken issue with many doctrines on this board that you disagree with vehemently.  What if you were to find out one was actually right?  How would you adjust?

[JLHPROF]

These types of questions are based upon the faulty idea that we are the same person i.e. have the same attitudes in heaven that we do at this moment in our lives.  We are not done living and learning yet so the question has little real value when addressing or put in the context of eternity.

 

I believe that heaven is being in complete union with the Godhead.  By the extension of God's grace we become one with him; this automatically disposes of these types of "ego" positions or problems.  The challenge is this life; here is where we see through a veil and are easily mislead by our own carnal minds and passions.  

 

Lovely evangelical type thought, but not scriptural.

We know there is a Spirit Prison full of spirits that either didn't know or didn't accept the gospel and are going to be taught it in the next life.

What do you think the process is like for all those sectarians and atheists in the Spirit Prision having to adjust to the idea that Mormonism was the true religion?

 

This "oneness" you speak of will not be an instantaneous thing.  It is the adjustment factor I am interested in.

What if you were to find out that the "complete union" you speak of takes an inordinate amount of effort on the part of the new arrival?  What if it required something that you vehemently disagree with now?

[Ahab]

Lovely evangelical type thought, but not scriptural.

We know there is a Spirit Prison full of spirits that either didn't know or didn't accept the gospel and are going to be taught it in the next life.

What do you think the process is like for all those sectarians and atheists in the Spirit Prision having to adjust to the idea that Mormonism was the true religion?

This "oneness" you speak of will not be an instantaneous thing. It is the adjustment factor I am interested in.

What if you were to find out that the "complete union" you speak of takes an inordinate amount of effort on the part of the new arrival? What if it required something that you vehemently disagree with now?

When people find out they are wrong they usually just make some type of adjustment that will mean they are not wrong anymore, don't you think?

The hard part is usually all about how to find out when [you] are wrong, so please explain how you think that will happen.

[Rain]

When people find out they are wrong they usually just make some type of adjustment that will mean they are not wrong anymore, don't you think?

The hard part is usually all about how to find out when [you] are wrong, so please explain how you think that will happen.

I used to think so. Then I found someone who vehemently declared that if she found out God felt one way about an issue then she would not want to be in heaven with him.

Maybe it is just my imperfect self and most are not like me, but when I am honest with myself, I find I am rebellious. I will find myself thinking, "I know I shouldn't do that, but I don't care. I want to." Not over anything big, but I think the actions and thinking are dangerous.

So no, I don't think everyone will make those adjustments over doctrine.

Personally, most doctrine I think I could make the adjustment in my thinking, but I may ask lots of why or how questions.

There is one thing only I think that will take a lot of adjustment on. That's if my husband and I could not be together, even if being exaltation worthy. The closer I get to him the more I hate to be apart from him. I cannot imagine being told I could be with him for eternity, feeling the way I do now or growing even closer together and being told, "oh. Well, you were wrong about that." I honestly don't know how I would deal with that one, but could imagine being quite angry.

Edited March 27, 2015 by Rain