ksfisher Posted March 11, 2015 Posted March 11, 2015 It did not need to be added but I am sure other things that were also shown did not need to be added as well. I don't know how it detracts from it. It shows the value and concept of self defense. We can defend our lives and the lives of our loved ones when they are attacked. I did not see the video to be bad, but I was just disappointed that they did not show that part. And if the church ever puts out any self defense videos I'm sure a pistol wielding Joseph Smith will be the star.
Dgal Posted March 11, 2015 Posted March 11, 2015 Is he really making his appeal so that he can have the excommunication lifted, or is he just trying to make a point with this letter?
ALarson Posted March 11, 2015 Author Posted March 11, 2015 (edited) Is he really making his appeal so that he can have the excommunication lifted, or is he just trying to make a point with this letter?I think he's trying to make some statements (and yes make a point). I also agree with some who believe he wants to hear from the First Presidency about his excommunication and can then claim that they put their stamp of approval on it. He's doubted that his disciplinary process started with local leaders and seems to believe they were told to take this action by church leaders in SLC. Edited March 11, 2015 by ALarson
eddie Posted March 12, 2015 Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) Isn't the Salt Lake Tribune a residue of the Godbeites?Edited to add:Yes, I checked online sources, and my memory is correct. The Tribune was started by the Godbeites.And to the extent that the newspaper to this day self-identifies as serving a certain local market niche that detests, mistrusts or resents the presence and influence of the Church of Jesus Christ, it is as though the Godbeites live on in the pages of the Tribune.That isn't what they claim, though debate certainly rages around their tone.http://www.sltrib.com/news/1767809-155/tribune-news-church-percent-lds-utahBTW the pray, pay, and obey originated with criticism of the Pope and the Catholic Church through the centuries, Benson just adapted it.http://www.netplaces.com/catholicism-guide/dissent-in-the-church/pay-pray-and-obey.htmI also agree it is sad to see the direction Steve Benson's, and even Pat Bagley's life to a certain extent have gone. I have letterhead from mission Bagley illustrated for those in the field. Don't think he'd draw that today 15 years later. Edited March 12, 2015 by eddie
Garden Girl Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 (edited) I know that it could be added, but why? Does it really add anything to the story? There are a lot of details left out between the time when Joseph left for Carthage and when he died, why does this one need to be added? Regarding Joseph having a small pistol... It doesn't need to be added... My thought was that for people that complain that Joseph couldn't be a martyr because of firing into the mob with the pistol... or that they were lied to by not being told about the pistol, etc etc... So my point that a brief couple of sentences could have been added to that effect would have solved that problem as it would have been in the record from the beginning. Thus no surprise... GG Edited March 13, 2015 by Garden Girl 1
Scott Lloyd Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 (edited) Isn't the Salt Lake Tribune a residue of the Godbeites? Edited to add: Yes, I checked online sources, and my memory is correct. The Tribune was started by the Godbeites. And to the extent that the newspaper to this day self-identifies as serving a certain local market niche that detests, mistrusts or resents the presence and influence of the Church of Jesus Christ, it is as though the Godbeites live on in the pages of the Tribune. That isn't what they claim, though debate certainly rages around their tone.http://www.sltrib.com/news/1767809-155/tribune-news-church-percent-lds-utah Interesting. Thanks for this. So Orme in effect acknowledges that the Tribune holds a traditional, adversarial, wary, cynical, skeptical, journalistic "watchdog" stance toward the Church of Jesus Christ, the same as it might hold toward any branch or agency of government, any public official, any politician, any corporate entity. This is consistent with what I have said: They are serving a particular market niche within their circulation area. They are keenly aware of and pander to that core constituency. That they are "independent" and "objective" in this is absurd; every publication has its biases and the Tribune is no exception. They are thus the inheritors and holders of the intellectual, cultural, moral and political legacy bequeathed to them by the anti-Mormon Godbeite movement that originated their publication in 1868. There is nothing illegal or particularly sinister in this. But it ought to be borne in mind when one is making decisions about which, if any, newspapers one wishes to support with one's patronage and in which one is inclined to place credence. Edited March 13, 2015 by Scott Lloyd 1
Sleeper Cell Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 Regarding Joseph having a small pistol... It doesn't need to be added... My thought was that for people that complain that Joseph couldn't be a martyr because of firing into the mob with the pistol... or that they were lied to by not being told about the pistol, etc etc... So my point that a brief couple of sentences could have been added to that effect would have solved that problem as it would have been in the record from the beginning. Thus no surprise... GG Especially since it was in the official record from the beginning. For example, the official multi-volume “History of the Church” as well as Joseph Fielding Smith’s “Essentials in Church History” (a one volume summary of church history written for use by the general church membership). Both were reprinted at least as late as the 1970s, and I had no trouble finding copies in the 1980s. Frankly, I think more of Joseph Smith for trying to defend himself (and his companions) against overwhelming odds, than I would, had he simply given up. 4
Tacenda Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 (edited) Especially since it was in the official record from the beginning. For example, the official multi-volume “History of the Church” as well as Joseph Fielding Smith’s “Essentials in Church History” (a one volume summary of church history written for use by the general church membership). Both were reprinted at least as late as the 1970s, and I had no trouble finding copies in the 1980s. Frankly, I think more of Joseph Smith for trying to defend himself (and his companions) against overwhelming odds, than I would, had he simply given up. http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=old+church+videos+of+joseph+smith+martyr&FORM=VIRE13#view=detail&mid=3130378B4A50103DB19E3130378B4A50103DB19E This looks like a fairly old video. It mentions the gun, but doesn't mention Joseph using it. It's no wonder that people grow up not realizing he shot at people. But I can see how Joseph would shoot, especially after seeing his beloved Hyrum shot. And I have no issues that he did that and used self defense. Edited March 13, 2015 by Tacenda 2
Scott Lloyd Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 (edited) Especially since it was in the official record from the beginning. For example, the official multi-volume “History of the Church” as well as Joseph Fielding Smith’s “Essentials in Church History” (a one volume summary of church history written for use by the general church membership). Both were reprinted at least as late as the 1970s, and I had no trouble finding copies in the 1980s. Frankly, I think more of Joseph Smith for trying to defend himself (and his companions) against overwhelming odds, than I would, had he simply given up.I'll go farther than that and declare that an attitude begrudging Joseph Smith for trying to defend his friends and himself against a murderous mob -- and doing so with any means available -- or trying to spin the factual account as some sort of Wild West "gunfight" is despicable. To those who do so, I ask: Where is their sense of justice? Edited March 16, 2015 by Scott Lloyd 1
Scott Lloyd Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=old+church+videos+of+joseph+smith+martyr&FORM=VIRE13#view=detail&mid=3130378B4A50103DB19E3130378B4A50103DB19E This looks like a fairly old video. It mentions the gun, but doesn't mention Joseph using it. It's no wonder that people grow up not realizing he shot at people. If a single old video is the only exposure they have or avail themselves of for learning the history of the Church, this might be right. But the presence and use of the pistol by the Prophet at Carthage is well recounted, as has been amply pointed out here. But I can see how Joseph would shoot, especially after seeing his beloved Hyrum shot. And I have no issues that he did that and used self defense. And this is commendable.
rockpond Posted May 5, 2015 Posted May 5, 2015 The unintended consequence of excommunicating Dehlin: He reported today that Mormon Stories podcast is currently averaging 9,241 downloads per DAY.
Duncan Posted May 5, 2015 Posted May 5, 2015 The unintended consequence of excommunicating Dehlin: He reported today that Mormon Stories podcast is currently averaging 9,241 downloads per DAY. man, that person has a lot of time on their hands! and I am just kidding!
Popular Post Russell C McGregor Posted May 5, 2015 Popular Post Posted May 5, 2015 The unintended consequence of excommunicating Dehlin: He reported today that Mormon Stories podcast is currently averaging 9,241 downloads per DAY.The intended consequence is that none of those who are downloading his propaganda can be taken in by his artificial sheepskin jacket. His cover as a regular Mormon who just wants to get at the truth has been blown. All his boosters know that he's a proudly unrepentant proselytizing apostate. Another intended consequence is that he may be prompted to repent of his apostasy. For that, we'll just have to give him time. Lots of "attaboys" probably won't do anything to hasten that day. 5
rockpond Posted May 5, 2015 Posted May 5, 2015 His cover as a regular Mormon who just wants to get at the truth has been blown.Those who were actually listening to him knew that long before he was excommunicated.
readstoomuch Posted May 5, 2015 Posted May 5, 2015 Or his plan all along was to build a following of 9241. Creating a following and marketing were always strong points for him.
bluebell Posted May 5, 2015 Posted May 5, 2015 The unintended consequence of excommunicating Dehlin: He reported today that Mormon Stories podcast is currently averaging 9,241 downloads per DAY.What was it before he faced discipline?
rodheadlee Posted May 5, 2015 Posted May 5, 2015 The unintended consequence of excommunicating Dehlin: He reported today that Mormon Stories podcast is currently averaging 9,241 downloads per DAY.So I guess he won't be hurting for cash. 1
ERayR Posted May 5, 2015 Posted May 5, 2015 The unintended consequence of excommunicating Dehlin: He reported today that Mormon Stories podcast is currently averaging 9,241 downloads per DAY. There are a lot more in the anti-Mormon business than that. Just wait till the rest learn about his pod cast.
stemelbow Posted May 5, 2015 Posted May 5, 2015 Is there a source for these number of downloads? What does 9,000 downloads a day mean in the podcast world, in the Mormon-related podcast world? Who are his patrons? Does he happen to have anything about the demographic of his audience? (doubt it, but curious) I don't think many in my circle of people know anything or, at least, not much about the podcast. So I'm not sure who his audience is. I read comments to his podcasts and get a pretty unified voice--a voice I don't hear much outside of some internet venues. 2
rockpond Posted May 5, 2015 Posted May 5, 2015 What was it before he faced discipline? I remember it being quite a bit lower but I can't find the numbers.
rockpond Posted May 5, 2015 Posted May 5, 2015 So I guess he won't be hurting for cash. He doesn't get paid by the download.
stemelbow Posted May 5, 2015 Posted May 5, 2015 I remember it being quite a bit lower but I can't find the numbers. Well it's only been a short time since his ex'ing. He might get have an increase for a short time. If it's maintained then that'd be impressive. it makes me wonder, are there many faithful LDS, like me, who listen to him, even if I don't give him donations? I can't help it, I like people's stories, even if those people are typically people who no longer believe. 1
rockpond Posted May 5, 2015 Posted May 5, 2015 Well it's only been a short time since his ex'ing. He might get have an increase for a short time. If it's maintained then that'd be impressive. it makes me wonder, are there many faithful LDS, like me, who listen to him, even if I don't give him donations? I can't help it, I like people's stories, even if those people are typically people who no longer believe. You and I can't be the only ones.
stemelbow Posted May 5, 2015 Posted May 5, 2015 You and I can't be the only ones. Well every once in a while I read, in the comments, comments from someone who sounds like an active member type, so I don't think we're the only ones. But there probably aren't a lot. I wonder how many never-mos find themselves listening.
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