To Be Baptized Unworthily

[Bernard Gui]

Mormon 9:29 See that ye are not baptized unworthily; see that ye partake not of the sacrament of Christ unworthily; but see that ye do all things in worthiness, and do it in the name of Jesus Christ, the Son of the living God; and if ye do this, and endure to the end, ye will in nowise be cast out.

How do you interpret Mormon's commandment not to be baptized unworthily? Don't we become worthy by being baptized? Does he mean not to be baptized without understanding and accepting the covenants? Are we sometimes too hasty in getting investigators into the font before they are prepared, or do we need to redouble our efforts to retain them after baptism?

[janderich]

Baptism does not make one worthy. Repentance and a determination to follow the Lord are the key. Once a person has repented and committed then, and only then, is baptism efficacious. Baptism is the outward sign of the inward change and commitment. Further, water baptism by itself has no cleansing power. We are cleansed when we receive the baptism of fire, and not before. This does not simply mean to have hands placed upon our heads. This again is a symbol and a person must be worthy and determined or they will not benefit from the promised blessing. To receive a water baptism without repentance and a commitment to serve is simply mockery. 

 

That is why scripture is so clear on the matter: 

 

Behold, elders, priests, and teachers were baptized; and they were not baptized save they brought forth fruit meet that they were worthy of it. Neither did they receive any unto baptism save they came forth with broken heart and a contrite spirit, and witnessed unto the church that they truly repented of all their sins. And none were received unto baptism save they took upon them the name of Christ, having a determination to serve him to the end. And after they have been received unto baptism, and were wrought upon and cleansed by the power of the Holy Ghost, they were numbered among the people of the church of Christ..." (Moroni 6:1-4)

 

All those who humble themselves before God, and desire to be baptized, and come forth with broken hearts and contrite spirits, and witness before the church that they have truly repented of all their sins, and are willing to take upon them the name of Jesus Christ, having a determination to serve him to the end, and truly manifest by thier works that they have received of the Spirit of the Christ unto the remission of their sins, shall be received by baptism into this church. (D&C 20:37)

 

Now I say unto you, if this be the desire of your hearts, what have you against being baptized in the name of the Lord, as a witness before him that ye have entered into the covenant with him, that ye will serve him and keep his commandments, that he may pour out his Spirit more abundantly upon you. (Mosiah 18:10)  Note that the covenant preceded baptism.

 

In some instances we may be too hasty to baptize investigators. Possibly because some members don't understand all the purposes behind baptism. This leads to investigators that don't understand and who partake of the outward symbol without the inner commitment. That being said, there is an important responsibility on the investigator to prepare themselves once the purposes behind baptism are understood. 

[AndyDnom]

what do you all think of the LDS policy that only certain people can be baptized? do other groups do this?

 

i was surprised on my mission when we turned down over half the women that I had committed to baptism. (this was in vietnam where a majority of females have had abortions due to difficult circumstances )

[Traela]

what do you all think of the LDS policy that only certain people can be baptized? do other groups do this?

 

i was surprised on my mission when we turned down over half the women that I had committed to baptism. (this was in vietnam where a majority of females have had abortions due to difficult circumstances )

Wow. I knew that sometimes women who have had abortions may need some extra time before baptism to make sure they understand the severity of this particular sin(hopefully this applies also to men who have encouraged abortions), but I had never heard of them actually being barred from baptism.

[Silhouette]

What about medical abortions? I had to have a medical abortion once because I was suffering a miscarriage, and my doctor was very concerned that if I didn't have one, there would be serious health issues coming up.

This is a bit off-thread, and I apologize for that, but I didn't think medical abortions were considered a sin.

[bluebell]

Wow. I knew that sometimes women who have had abortions may need some extra time before baptism to make sure they understand the severity of this particular sin(hopefully this applies also to men who have encouraged abortions), but I had never heard of them actually being barred from baptism.

Me neither.

We had such a sister get baptized. The only thing different was that she had to be interviewed by the mission president instead of the zone or district leaders.

[bluebell]

To the OP-

I understand being baptized unworthily to be being baptized without having faith in Christ, without repenting of sins, and/or without sincerity.

[JAHS]

The Church Handbook says:

Authorization of the mission president is required before a prospective convert may be baptized if the person:

 

1. Has submitted to, performed, encouraged, paid for, or arranged for an abortion.

 

and

 

"Church discipline should not be considered for members who were involved in an abortion before they were baptized or because (1) the pregnancy resulted from forcible rape or incest, (2) the life or health of the mother was in jeopardy, or (3) the fetus was known to have severe defects that would not allow the baby to survive beyond birth. Bishops refer questions on specific cases to the stake president. He may direct questions to the Office of the First Presidency if necessary.

Edited October 11, 2014 by JAHS

[will227457]

No 

 

What about medical abortions? I had to have a medical abortion once because I was suffering a miscarriage, and my doctor was very concerned that if I didn't have one, there would be serious health issues coming up.

This is a bit off-thread, and I apologize for that, but I didn't think medical abortions were considered a sin.

No they are not a sin, miscarriages, and medical abortions to save the mother are not a sin. 

 

In many foreign countries there is only one word for miscarriage and it is the same as used for abortion. I am not sure what the circumstances in Vietnam are or were but it seems odd that so may would be denied baptism

[Avatar4321]

When we are baptized we take upon ourselves the name of Christ. One of the Ten commandments is to not take the name of the Lord in vain. To be baptized unworthily probably involves taking the Lords name in vain

[The Nehor]

I think this is a warning to the convert and not the baptizers. I think some investigators want to be baptized when they are not truly ready. I baptized one man on my mission that I was almost certain would fall away but we had taught him what he needed to know and he passed the interview. We could not withhold the ordinance from him (we prayed about it and were told to proceed). He quickly left the church afterwards.

[CV75]

Mormon 9:29 See that ye are not baptized unworthily; see that ye partake not of the sacrament of Christ unworthily; but see that ye do all things in worthiness, and do it in the name of Jesus Christ, the Son of the living God; and if ye do this, and endure to the end, ye will in nowise be cast out.

How do you interpret Mormon's commandment not to be baptized unworthily? Don't we become worthy by being baptized? Does he mean not to be baptized without understanding and accepting the covenants? Are we sometimes too hasty in getting investigators into the font before they are prepared, or do we need to redouble our efforts to retain them after baptism?

I think it has to do with getting baptized "with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ..." I think that is how the gate to the baptism of fire can follow, just as the power of the Holy Ghost follows prayer. With the taking the sacrament, I think that is how we may His Spirit to be with us.

 

We all need assistance, hence the instruction in D&C 20:37 to the shepherds of the flock (and the converts). Here, being worthy entails being humble, desirous to be baptized, coming forth with broken heart and contrite spirit, witnessing before the church that one has truly repented of all his sins, and is willing to take upon him the name of Jesus Christ, having a determination to serve him to the end, and truly manifest by his works that the has received of the Spirit of Christ unto the remission of his sins.

[Silhouette]

The Church Handbook says:

Authorization of the mission president is required before a prospective convert may be baptized if the person:

1. Has submitted to, performed, encouraged, paid for, or arranged for an abortion.

and

"Church discipline should not be considered for members who were involved in an abortion before they were baptized or because (1) the pregnancy resulted from forcible rape or incest, (2) the life or health of the mother was in jeopardy, or (3) the fetus was known to have severe defects that would not allow the baby to survive beyond birth. Bishops refer questions on specific cases to the stake president. He may direct questions to the Office of the First Presidency if necessary.

Thank you, this makes me feel better.

[Silhouette]

No

No they are not a sin, miscarriages, and medical abortions to save the mother are not a sin.

In many foreign countries there is only one word for miscarriage and it is the same as used for abortion. I am not sure what the circumstances in Vietnam are or were but it seems odd that so may would be denied baptism

This had eased my worries, thank you very much.

[Guest]

Mormon 9:29 See that ye are not baptized unworthily; see that ye partake not of the sacrament of Christ unworthily; but see that ye do all things in worthiness, and do it in the name of Jesus Christ, the Son of the living God; and if ye do this, and endure to the end, ye will in nowise be cast out.

How do you interpret Mormon's commandment not to be baptized unworthily? Don't we become worthy by being baptized? Does he mean not to be baptized without understanding and accepting the covenants? Are we sometimes too hasty in getting investigators into the font before they are prepared, or do we need to redouble our efforts to retain them after baptism?

I would imagine do not be baptized under false pretense, unrepentant.

[Guest]

What about medical abortions? I had to have a medical abortion once because I was suffering a miscarriage, and my doctor was very concerned that if I didn't have one, there would be serious health issues coming up.

This is a bit off-thread, and I apologize for that, but I didn't think medical abortions were considered a sin.

No if a danger to the mother's life to keep the child.

[Silhouette]

No if a danger to the mother's life to keep the child.

Thanks for the reassurance, it really eases my mind on the matter.

[3DOP]

what do you all think of the LDS policy that only certain people can be baptized? do other groups do this?

 

i was surprised on my mission when we turned down over half the women that I had committed to baptism. (this was in vietnam where a majority of females have had abortions due to difficult circumstances )

 

Since the Book of Mormon admonishes you against unworthy reception of baptism, it seems like it would follow that the Church needs to be active in helping people to be fully prepared mentally and properly disposed spiritually. Surely there isn't some target group. If those being baptised are supposed to take care not to receive it unworthily, should not the minister of baptism take some kind of care as well to not administer baptism unworthily?  

 

Catholics never baptise immediately except on danger of death. Ordinarily, several months of instruction, and the approval of the pastor precedes adult baptism. Unfortunately, sometimes people want baptism for reasons that are incompatible with the purpose of the Sacrament (to please a spouse for instance). A period of discernment helps to assure worthy dispositions on the part of the candidate for baptism.

 

I can't explain why an abortion would be an impediment to LDS baptisms. There is no sin that would preclude a Catholic baptism, although in the Sacrament of Penance, the sin of involvement with any abortion as procurer, doctor, mother, or other participation cannot be absolved by the parish priest, but is reserved to the Pope. Maybe it is because of the way baptism is used for LDS. We believe that baptism can never be repeated. Although like you, we understand that certain serious sins require something in the way of a sacramental  reconciliation of the fallen but repentant soul to God. Where you rebaptize, we have confession. 

Edited October 11, 2014 by 3DOP

[VideoGameJunkie]

I say as long as you don't kill someone you're good.

[Jeanne]

And so..I think a relevant question is how can those who accept the gospel in the next life, be "unworthy" after being baptized by Saints on this earth.  A better question, some of those who have been baptized may never qualify for baptism because of their sins.  At what point does repentance begin and end.   I know this doesn't make much sense here..but it does to me..

[Grundelwalken]

 I can't explain why an abortion would be an impediment to LDS baptisms. There is no sin that would preclude a Catholic baptism, although in the Sacrament of Penance, the sin of involvement with any abortion as procurer, doctor, mother, or other participation cannot be absolved by the parish priest, but is reserved to the Pope. Maybe it is because of the way baptism is used for LDS. We believe that baptism can never be repeated. Although like you, we understand that certain serious sins require something in the way of a sacramental  reconciliation of the fallen but repentant soul to God. Where you rebaptize, we have confession.

It's not that they can't ever be baptized, but that some sins are so serious that they must be reviewed by higher authority before baptism can be performed. Murder is one and when a woman has an abortion for reasons not related to the circumstances related in the earlier post, they are stepping into that area of sin. Can a murderer/aborter be baptized? Sometimes, but the decision rises to a higher level than a missionary or bishop in the Church. And sometimes the higher authority may decide the answer is no. Can that change in the future. Yes.

We only rebaptize when someone is excommunicated. The Sacrament of The Lord's Supper is the method for daily/recurring repentance. MW

[3DOP]

It's not that they can't ever be baptized, but that some sins are so serious that they must be reviewed by higher authority before baptism can be performed. Murder is one and when a woman has an abortion for reasons not related to the circumstances related in the earlier post, they are stepping into that area of sin. Can a murderer/aborter be baptized? Sometimes, but the decision rises to a higher level than a missionary or bishop in the Church. And sometimes the higher authority may decide the answer is no. Can that change in the future. Yes.

We only rebaptize when someone is excommunicated. The Sacrament of The Lord's Supper is the method for daily/recurring repentance. MW

 

Thank you for the explanation Grundelwalken. I was thinking that would be the case. I am happy to hear you make the confirmation. We have significant similarities, regardless of very conservative Mormons and Catholics who prefer to emphasize our differences might object (I have nobody in mind in present company.). Both Mormons and Catholics see a necessary review before full reconciliation of penitents if they have committed the very most serious sins. This review is to be under the approval of the highest authorities in the Church.

Edited October 12, 2014 by 3DOP