Elder Holland, The Poor

[MormonFreeThinker]

Elder Holland talked about the poor, and taught that it is not their fault (many of them), he said we must help the poor. For the ones that it is their fault, he said that we still need to show compassion. 

 

Elder Holland also taught that poverty destroys dreams.   

 

Elder Holland also said that he doesn't have the answer to many difficult questions.   

Edited October 4, 2014 by MormonFreeThinker

[watermelongirl]

This was among my favorite talks of the day. It was heartfelt and motivating.

[juliann]

It was so powerful. I don't know how tomorrow can possibly outdo today.

 

This isn't an exact quote....

 

Cease withholding our means because we think poor have brought it upon themselves. Aren't we all beggars? We retain (vs obtain) remission of sins by responding to those in need. Perhaps most impressive was Elder Holland acknowledging that he does not know what it feels like to be poor and his inability to explain why circumstances of birth are so varied.

 

He began by pointing out the verse that Jesus had nowhere to lay his head, i.e., was homeless.

[Grudunza]

I thought his talk was missing something important... one of those slow, building claps at the end. 

[WysteriaBlue]

I believe at times, he was also referring to the poor in spirit and in emotional pain and lacking the home of faith...(not a quote) and the duty of all to reach out and feed and house those that are hurting with what gifts we have to help them...

He seemed careful to advise caution and wisdom in our desire to help others in truly meaningful ways and retaining meekness of spirit.

I too was quite moved and look forward to better understanding when able to read his words as well...

Sometimes, to me personally, it is discouraging to hear only figures of how many members are assisted instead of souls/people or even non-members as well...

[rodheadlee]

I believe at times, he was also referring to the poor in spirit and in emotional pain and lacking the home of faith...(not a quote) and the duty of all to reach out and feed and house those that are hurting with what gifts we have to help them...

He seemed careful to advise caution and wisdom in our desire to help others in truly meaningful ways and retaining meekness of spirit.

I too was quite moved and look forward to better understanding when able to read his words as well...

Sometimes, to me personally, it is discouraging to hear only figures of how many members are assisted instead of souls/people or even non-members as well...

It's up to us to minister to the non members on a person to person level. We don't need to count them we just need to be living it.

[WysteriaBlue]

No, you're right. We certainly shouldn't 'count' non-members in our good works, faith, prayers, resources or deeds. At least not until they are dead. Very sad viewpoint.

[Garden Girl]

No, you're right. We certainly shouldn't 'count' non-members in our good works, faith, prayers, resources or deeds. At least not until they are dead. Very sad viewpoint.

I think you misunderstood...

 

GG

[WysteriaBlue]

Perhaps I am GG... I could only hope so.

WB

[The Nehor]

I think he referred to members because we have a much better grasp of record keeping for them. It is more difficult to count no members helped particularly since much of it is bulk humanitarian aid.

[WysteriaBlue]

Thank you Nehor,

That does make better sense. I'm glad you heard it too.

WB

[Calm]

I think he referred to members because we have a much better grasp of record keeping for them. It is more difficult to count no members helped particularly since much of it is bulk humanitarian aid.

For example, $100,000 was sent back in August to a vicar in Bagdad to help him with the 5000 who had flooded his church as refugees. But the streets were crowded as well and if there was enough it is unlikely he turned anyone away. Plus that was just the beginning. So is it one or 5000 or more that were helped. Then there is the money and other things that are given to charities to help them do their work. They probably keep rough numbers for their own use, but why waste money and time keeping track of numbers when that time can be spent helping people. Edited October 5, 2014 by calmoriah

[Robert F. Smith]

This was among my favorite talks of the day. It was heartfelt and motivating.

I thought he was gonna cry.

[The Nehor]

Other possible reactions to the existence of the poor:

 

[JLHPROF]

I love Elder Holland's talks.  Everyone has instantly memorable quotes that stick with you.

This one had several - I particluarly liked:

"I may not be my brother's keeper but I AM my brother's brother".

[The Nehor]

"I may not be my brother's keeper but I AM my brother's brother".

 

I am just glad we were not told we are our brother's keeper again. Cain was not asking if he should care for his brother; he was pointing out that he is not his brother's legal guardian and Abel is not a child that needed to be watched all the time. Anyone wanting to be the "keeper" of another in the sense the Bible means is probably codependent.

[mnn727]

My question is how much responsibility do the poor have to help themselves?

As I have said in the past America has the richest poor around.

 

I have a family member who is "poor" he is on a fixed income that admittedly is not very much, however its enough to live conservatively on, the problem is he does not live conservatively, he blows 1/4 of it on cigarettes every month another 1/10 of it on cable TV(he lives in an area where he can get 10 - 12 stations with a set of rabbit ears), he gambles (casino gambling) before paying his bills and is always begging for other family members to help him out so his electricity or his water, etc doesn't get shut off.

 

I live conservatively, I save money for my retirement (something he never did), I tithe and give a generous fast offering, do I stop saving and 'help the poor' (meaning him) to pay his bills after  has let his money go up in smoke (cigarettes) or across the black jack table to the casino?  

 

I am serious here, how much responsibility do the poor have to help themselves?

[bluebell]

My question is how much responsibility do the poor have to help themselves?

As I have said in the past America has the richest poor around.

I have a family member who is "poor" he is on a fixed income that admittedly is not very much, however its enough to live conservatively on, the problem is he does not live conservatively, he blows 1/4 of it on cigarettes every month another 1/10 of it on cable TV(he lives in an area where he can get 10 - 12 stations with a set of rabbit ears), he gambles (casino gambling) before paying his bills and is always begging for other family members to help him out so his electricity or his water, etc doesn't get shut off.

I live conservatively, I save money for my retirement (something he never did), I tithe and give a generous fast offering, do I stop saving and 'help the poor' (meaning him) to pay his bills after has let his money go up in smoke (cigarettes) or across the black jack table to the casino?

I am serious here, how much responsibility do the poor have to help themselves?

We should probably turn to the spirit in understanding where are individual responsibility is.

I have a sister who is smilarly bad with money, to the point where my parents and the church were frequently paying her rent and bills while she spent all her money on unimportant things. The day the church stopped, and my parents put up real boundaries, was a good day for her. Since then she has managed to pay her bills on her own, because she knows she has to I guess.

But it took a long time and a lot of prayer before my parents took that route. Under different circumstances maybe the spirit would have directed them to a different course.

[Deborah]

I love Elder Holland's talks.  Everyone has instantly memorable quotes that stick with you.

This one had several - I particluarly liked:

"I may not be my brother's keeper but I AM my brother's brother".

 

I was so glad when he said that. It's been a pet peeve of mine for years. It was Cain who asked the question, not the Lord who said it. A keeper puts in mind a zookeeper looking after animals. We are supposed to be so much more.

[VideoGameJunkie]

As a poor man I love this talk, but I know there are those that have it much worse than me. I loved the talk during the Priesthood session about fasting and paying a fast offering with our tithing. I also love making a donation to humanitarian Aid. Helping the poor is so important and such a great thing about the church.

[ksfisher]

My question is how much responsibility do the poor have to help themselves?

As I have said in the past America has the richest poor around.

 

I have a family member who is "poor" he is on a fixed income that admittedly is not very much, however its enough to live conservatively on, the problem is he does not live conservatively, he blows 1/4 of it on cigarettes every month another 1/10 of it on cable TV(he lives in an area where he can get 10 - 12 stations with a set of rabbit ears), he gambles (casino gambling) before paying his bills and is always begging for other family members to help him out so his electricity or his water, etc doesn't get shut off.

 

I live conservatively, I save money for my retirement (something he never did), I tithe and give a generous fast offering, do I stop saving and 'help the poor' (meaning him) to pay his bills after  has let his money go up in smoke (cigarettes) or across the black jack table to the casino?  

 

I am serious here, how much responsibility do the poor have to help themselves?

 

Elder Holland addressed that point.  In my notes I wrote down that he taught that we are always expected to help ourselves before we seek help from others.

[mnn727]

As a poor man I love this talk, but I know there are those that have it much worse than me. I loved the talk during the Priesthood session about fasting and paying a fast offering with our tithing. I also love making a donation to humanitarian Aid. Helping the poor is so important and such a great thing about the church.

Ok, that's understandable but would you then take a stab at my question in post #17 please?

I'm not picking on you but I really honestly want to try to get a perspective and an answer.

[VideoGameJunkie]

mnn, my answer to your question is the poor do need to make every effort they can to help themselves. I feel a lot of poor are responsible for becoming poor. A lot of homeless you see on the streets probably lost what little they originally had to drugs or alcohol and it wasted all their money. There are so many rich Mormons where I live and that is because they worked hard, got an education, and a great job, and followed the commandments and covenants. I feel we put ourselves where we wind up, both financially and spiritually. But I will still donate to the poor on every tithing slip I fill out. Someone has to help them.

[mnn727]

Elder Holland addressed that point.  In my notes I wrote down that he taught that we are always expected to help ourselves before we seek help from others.

Great, help ourselves first, is it OK that I buy a new car or put new tile in my house or max my contributions to my 401K to save for my retirement instead of giving money to my poor relative that will waste it?

He called my up once saying he only had bologna sandwiches to eat the last two weeks, but he smoked a carton of cig's every week and blew money gambling. That's irresponsible and I really feel no compassion to give him money when he is just going to waste it.

 

Seriously people at what point do we keep giving and at what point do we say 'you're on your own'?

[mnn727]

. But I will still donate to the poor on every tithing slip I fill out. Someone has to help them.

Thank you for your reply, I really appreciate it. I do give a generous fast offering. But to me just giving people money usually does more harm than good. Its the whole teach a man to fish scenario. The relative I am talking about is my actual brother, so Elder Holland saying "I am my brothers brother" kind of hit me.

I don't smoke or gamble, I feel they are both wrong and stupid to do, so why should I give someone money that will just allow them to continue to do both? Am I going against Elder Holland and the Savior when I say 'No I am not going to give you any money'?

Edited October 5, 2014 by mnn727