We Will Go Where We Are The Most Comfortable

[Rob Osborn]

Just my two cents but I honestly believe that the road of salvation leading to godliness is a plan where there is only a destination at the end and you either get there to see it or you turna around and never get there. By this I mean that if we choose to repent and accept Christ we shall find in due time that we want to be just like our Heavenly Father in every aspect. Basically- we will want to fulfill the measure of our creation and in this God is glorified.

[wenglund]

"We will go where we are the most comfortable"

 

...isn't that a fundamental tenet of TULIP?

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Duncan]

"We will go where we are the most comfortable"

 

...isn't that a fundamental tenet of TULIP?

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

 

that's what I was thinking like why bother being good and bettering yourself here if you'll just end up being happy regardless of what you do

[Ahab]

I am ambidextrous I can do both!

More or less good at the same time?

Now that would be something to see.

You'd probably be better off being as good as you can be all of the time, though. Try it and see.

[BCSpace]

Anyone know where this comes from?  Is it a doctrinal statement?

 

There is a treatise on this very notion, a short story actually, called The Great Divorce by C.S. Lewis.  Obviously not doctrinal, but worth the read imho for anyone interested in this concept.

[mercyngrace]

There is a treatise on this very notion, a short story actually, called The Great Divorce by C.S. Lewis.  Obviously not doctrinal, but worth the read imho for anyone interested in this concept.

 

Great short story. Highly recommend. 

 

I also recommend The Heavenly Village by children's writer Cynthia Rylant. 

Edited May 23, 2014 by mercyngrace

[Nofear]

For what doth it profit a man if a gift is bestowed upon him, and he receive not the gift? Behold, he rejoices not in that which is given unto him, neither rejoices in him who is the giver of the gift. (D&C 88:33)

The verse is in reference to the idea of eternal rewards.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I don't know where it came from. But it is a logical conclusion from Agency and the our idea's about the next life.

That and when you couple it with the idea that God is loving it only makes sense. I recently came to this conclusion. I even went so far as to say that we probably will pick were we go of our own free will. Well most of us.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

that's what I was thinking like why bother being good and bettering yourself here if you'll just end up being happy regardless of what you do

What if some of the language used in the scriptures is the type of language a parent uses to his kids today? To prick their hearts and help them bring about change. "Do this or burn in a pit forever".

 

I know this is really simplistic so don't read to much into my comments.

 

I think the point is that you will be happy but you will not be as happy as you could be if you "followed the rules", so to speak.

 

Do you think the design of God, who is loving, is to punish his offspring with pain for all of eternity?

[JLHPROF]

that's what I was thinking like why bother being good and bettering yourself here if you'll just end up being happy regardless of what you do

 

Because there's happy and then there's comfortable.

And it's the question of which blessings are you willing to give up for comfort.

 

Those who point blank refuse to ever marry may be more comfortable single, but the have robbed themselves of exaltation/godhood.  So they may be comfortable, but they will have missed out on so much more potential happiness.

The lecherous, lust-filled, adulterer may be more comfortable abiding a telestial law but they 1. won't get to indulge their sins they love so much and 2. will be aware of what they missed out on receiving.  But they can be happy not being forced to be something they're not comfortable with.

 

It's like SSM.  They may be more comfortable in their SS relationships here (telestial environment) and might be unhappy to be forced into Celestial eternal marriage with the opposite gender.

But when we get to the next life and they would still be uncomfortable in a celestial family enviroment and are kept in a telestial law based environment they may still be more comfortable but seeing others receive their eternal families and eternal increase won't be happiness either. 

[Senator]

I hope to find myself in a state far beyond my current dimensional comprehension of deserved Divine comfort and happiness.

 

Isn't that the good of the Good News?

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I hope to find myself in a state far beyond my current dimensional comprehension of deserved Divine comfort and happiness.

 

Isn't that the good of the Good News?

Yeah actually. That is great news.

 

I think part of the key of all of this is feeling complacent. I think that is why certain language is used in the scriptures too. To keep us on our toes. I don't want to have an "All is well in Zion" attitude.

[Tacenda]

that's what I was thinking like why bother being good and bettering yourself here if you'll just end up being happy regardless of what you do

I like the EV analogy, we're all sinners, thanks be to Jesus for getting us out of it, personal relationship, take His name on ourselves, be truly converted out of that and then naturally do what is right, not out of trying for the best place in the after world. 

[halconero]

I like the EV analogy, we're all sinners, thanks be to Jesus for getting us out of it, personal relationship, take His name on ourselves, be truly converted out of that and then naturally do what is right, not out of trying for the best place in the after world. 

 

My issue with the analogy is that it stems from modernity, and ignores the language, social context, and meaning of the Bible. It essentially Euroamericanizes the writings of Paul and the Bible and creates a gospel which Jesus or the apostles never taught. The first few parts (all sinners, thanksgiving to Jesus for saving us, personal relationship, be converted) are aligned with Biblical teachings, but it falls apart in the "naturally do" and "don't seek best place" part.

 

Grace is a lovely, amazing, beautiful word that I'm convinced most modern Christians don't understand. It's true meaning is "favor, divine disposition, inclination," in short, God's salvation comes through his favouring the believers. In EV theology the misunderstood grace of God automatically transforms the believer into a do-gooder. In Biblical theology the favour of God is remitted to the spiritual have-nots, who in the patron-client relationship, glorify the patron and adhere to his teachings in commandments. Should the patron (who is Jesus) renege on their favour, the client need not adhere to his commands. Should the client (the believers) cease to glorify and follow the patron the latter (who is God) removes their favour. In both cases the patron-client relationship is broken. It is not that doing good earns the favour of God, it's that the favour of God enables the believer to do good, and the lack of effort breaks any such relationship.

 

Salvation is called a prize to be won in two places by Paul, and different types and levels of resurrection are also preached by him. He most definitely encourages the followers of Christ and the apostles to strive and even "run" or "press forward" for the highest prize.

[The Nehor]

Some people are more comfortable being less good than other people, although they would probably not say it that way.

Like, what would you rather do on a typical Sunday,especially if the weather was perfect outside? Go sit in a church building for 3 hours singing to and praising God for making the Earth such a wonderful place for us to enjoy living here, or going someplace outside to enjoy it?

Being more comfortable in one place than in another place can involve some complex issues.

 

I would rather go outside but I am sadly a sinner so I need to go to the church. I am sick so I need a hospital. Fortunately one day I will stop being sick and then I can go outside every Sunday. In this life we have to do a lot of unpleasant things because we are unpleasant people living in an unpleasant world.

 

We are even told that we should not be comfortable in this life. The closest to real comfort on earth is Zion and we have not built it.

 

Then again there are people who seem to think heaven is an eternal sacrament meeting. I am not going to that heaven.

[bcuzbcuz]

I'm going to Italy

[Ahab]

I'm going to Italy

It's going to be totally different there when this planet is totally cleansed and made anew.

You may still prefer that area of the planet anyway, though. I'm planting lots of trees where I live right now and hoping that I'll get to enjoy them when they've grown a lot taller.

[strappinglad]

Then again there are people who seem to think heaven is an eternal sacrament meeting. I am not going to that heaven.

Mark Twain doesn't want to either.

[bcuzbcuz]

It's going to be totally different there when this planet is totally cleansed and made anew.

Just as long as I can get a Calzone pizza,, I'll be fine.

[thatjimguy]

“I have a feeling that when the Lord comes to giving us our rewards, shall we say, and our punishments, that He will give that punishment which is the very least that our transgression will justify. I believe that He will bring into His justice all of the infinite love, and mercy, and kindness, and understanding which He has…And on the other hand I believe that when it comes to making the rewards for our good conduct, He will give us the maximum that it is possible to give having in mind the offense which we committed. I feel that very, very strongly.” (President J. Reuben Clark, 1955)

 

Some think that it doesn't matter then what we do in life because if we are going to where we are most comfortable so why bother being good, accepting the Gospel etc.

 

Isn't the idea of the atonement to free us from punishment?

[thatjimguy]

Here's a quote from Lorenzo Snow:

 

"God loves his offspring, the human family. His design is not simply to furnish happiness to the few here, called Latter-day Saints. The plan and scheme that he is now carrying out is for universal salvation; not only for the salvation of the Latter-day Saints, but for the salvation of every man and woman on the face of the earth, for those also in the spirit world, and for those who may hereafter come upon the face of the earth. It is for the salvation of every son and daughter of Adam. They are the offspring of the Almighty, he loves them all and his plans are for the salvation of the whole, and he will bring all up into that position in which they will be as happy and as comfortable as they are willing to be." (JD 14:308)

 

To me, this can also feel like a "ready for responsibility" thing. For instance, I may be smart enough and experienced enough to be a manager for some position, but I may not want the job. 

 

However, this also make me wonder about eternity in general. Is tis the end of our growth on this planet according to LDS teachings? I mean, I do not see how, as immature I am for this small time I am in my mortal coil, being the limited time that I would ever be able to learn and grow if I am truly ever going to live again in the afterlife.

[strappinglad]

When I was a young lad on the farm, I wanted to test the statement that if you put your tongue on a very cold metal surface, it will stick. I waited until it was -30 and went up to a metal pole in the yard. I trusted the word of my parents but just had to know for myself. As a cautious soul I just put the tip of my tongue on the pole and sure enough it stuck. My reaction was to quickly pull away , thereby ripping a bit of skin from my now sore tongue. I was very glad that I had not tried the whole tongue all at once. This was a 1 minute experience and yet it has remained ' burned ' in my memory for 60 years.

This earthly experience may be just like that in its duration compared to our previous existence , short and often brutal but definitely memorable and a cautionary tale.

[thatjimguy]

So would you say we learn more here than we ever learn will in the eternities? I guess that goes with the idea of why we are here I guess.

[Rob Osborn]

I wonder if this idea of being wherever we will be most comfortable is pretty much just in our church or if other churches also think like this?

I find it of interest when I read the Book of Mormon and the New Testament that it really seems black or white as to our rewards versus punishments. Its either- come into my kingdom and receive eternal life and have all your sorrow wiped away "or" be not saved and have every last bit of pain and suffering heaped upon you. I think one of the problems paramount in all of this is the old McConkie teaching about telestial, terrestrial and celestial law. In the scriptures we are never told what each one of these laws entail. McConkie explained that the telestial law is the law of carnality- kind of a sinful law, the law of the world, law of the jungle. But our scriptures do not state this. Its only in the temple that we learn a little about each law. In the temple we learn that this lone and dreary earth is the telestial kingdom and that the glory of this earth is the Holy Ghost. We also learn that God has given us laws to live by while in this kingdom (for every kingdom there is a law given) and that compliance to these "holy" laws bring us blessings such as things like access to gifts of the spirit and the gift of the Holy Ghost. Thus by compliance and obedience here in this kingdom we can have glory added upon us while we are here. We are thus justified and sanctified by obedience to this law while we are here. But then, through further temple experience we learn that obedience to telestial law is just part of something greater and provides us with a stepping stone towards gaining salvation. After learning telestial law in the telestial kingdom we are introduced to a higher terrestrial law where we add to the law more laws to be obedient to. These constitute the higher terrestrial laws and will be in force during the millennium when the earth transforms from the telestial kingdom into the terrestrial kingdom. The terrestrial kingdom includes all the laws of the teslestial and adds to it. These are step by step laws that God has set up for us to learn to become perfect "in order to be saved". Of importance or paramount magnitude, is that we learn in the temple that salvation is only achieved when we come into perfection of celestial law in the celestial kingdom. The celestial law includes both telestial and terrestrial law. It is basically the completeion of steps taken that brings one into a state of perfection.

When one really starts to disect things down we see the pattern unfolding of God bringing all that can be saved into perfection before he presents the kingdom before the Father "spotless". Christ isn't taking the kingdom and placing people into subcategories of sinfulness. Neither is it a kingdom that allows people to find a degree of unfaithfulness and be happy or "comfortable" with. Just like at church- we do not have three levels of pews for the members. Just like the temple where we all where the same clothing and see and are seen as the same. Just like the parable of the workers in the vineyard- some working long and hard and others coming at the last minute- all receive the same reward. This all points to one thing- Christ comes during the millennium to perfect the saved and bring them all up to that same level where they can be saved.

[cdowis]

There are those who feel very comfortable in the presence of Christ, but not in the presence of the Father.  They look forward to "heaven" (the terrestrial kingdom) but do not want to pay the price for anything else.

Edited May 24, 2014 by cdowis