Modern Revelation

[Coreyb]

I have often wondered, is the practice of writing revelations a lost art in the LDS church. Obviously the bulk of our written revelations come from Joseph Smith, but his successors wrote a few of their own as well. Many of the early apostles recorded theirs too. I found this...

 

 There are those who would assume that with the printing and binding of these sacred records, that would be the “end of the prophets.” But again we testify to the world that revelation continues and that the vaults and files of the Church contain these revelations which come month to month and day to day. We testify also that there is, since 1830 when The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, and will continue to be, so long as time shall last, a prophet, recognized of God and his people, who will continue to interpret the mind and will of the Lord. 

 

Spencer W. Kimball, In Conference Report, Apr. 1977, 115; or Ensign, May 1977, 77–78.

 

...and it makes me hopeful that there still are revelations being recorded in a similar way that they used to, but I have the feeling that this is not quite the case. Does anyone know of any written revelations recorded by the brethren more recent than, say, Joseph F. Smiths vision of the spirit world? If this tradition has stopped, When? Why? If not, why do we never hear of any? Dont get me wrong, I do believe we have had inspired leaders since those early days. We have had inspired sermons, a few prophecies, inspired policies and announcements, the 1978 revelation, and sure, even the Proclamation to the World. My question is about the writing. Your thoughts please...    

Edited February 19, 2014 by Coreyb

[california boy]

Do you think the prophet still receives actual revelations or does he just rely on inspiration.  Even the 1978 priesthood revelation was not at least related as a vision or manifestation.  Or do you believe revelation is basically just inspiration and not a visitation or manifestation that seemed more how early visions were recorded.  Is the church now on cruise control with only slight adjustments needed through inspiration, rather than the grand visions and visitations by holy messengers of the early days of the church?

 

I am really curious how members feel about this issue.  I am glad you started a thread on it.

[Ahab]

It doesn't need to be new to be revelation. Sometimes new to the person receiving what God reveals to their mind, but not as if nobody had a thought from God about it before. The more I keep reading the more I see that a new idea to me was already revealed to somebody else before me, but I still get a lot of revelation from God and I often put it in writing.

[CV75]

I have often wondered, is the practice of writing revelations a lost art in the LDS church. Obviously the bulk of our written revelations come from Joseph Smith, but his successors wrote a few of their own as well. Many of the early apostles recorded theirs too. I found this...

 

 There are those who would assume that with the printing and binding of these sacred records, that would be the “end of the prophets.” But again we testify to the world that revelation continues and that the vaults and files of the Church contain these revelations which come month to month and day to day. We testify also that there is, since 1830 when The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, and will continue to be, so long as time shall last, a prophet, recognized of God and his people, who will continue to interpret the mind and will of the Lord. 

 

Spencer W. Kimball, In Conference Report, Apr. 1977, 115; or Ensign, May 1977, 77–78.

 

...and it makes me hopeful that there still are revelations being recorded in a similar way that they used to, but I have the feeling that this is not quite the case. Does anyone know of any written revelations recorded by the brethren more recent than, say, Joseph F. Smiths vision of the spirit world? If this tradition has stopped, When? Why? If not, why do we never hear of any? Dont get me wrong, I do believe we have had inspired leaders since those early days. We have had inspired sermons, a few prophecies, inspired policies and announcements, the 1978 revelation, and sure, even the Proclamation to the World. My question is about the writing. Your thoughts please...    

I think most of the President's revelation is in writing (journals, minutes, memos, etc.) but not public or canonized because it has to do with specific day-to-day matters and not matters of general restoration. If a particular principle or key were to be restored, I can see it becoming canon.

 

I also think the size of the Church has something to do with making the minutia, the obvious and the intimate (like some of the revelation we see in the D&C, which still serves a valuable purpose for us nowadays) available to the general membership through regular updates impractical.

[Storm Rider]

Not all of Joseph's revelations were through visitation or vision, but through revelation i.e. through the direction of the Holy Spirit.  

 

It does seem like our scriptures should be growing in volume with continuing revelation. It never seemed right that it should almost cease to grow.

[Buzzard]

Do you think the prophet still receives actual revelations or does he just rely on inspiration.  Even the 1978 priesthood revelation was not at least related as a vision or manifestation.  Or do you believe revelation is basically just inspiration and not a visitation or manifestation that seemed more how early visions were recorded.  Is the church now on cruise control with only slight adjustments needed through inspiration, rather than the grand visions and visitations by holy messengers of the early days of the church?

 

I am really curious how members feel about this issue.  I am glad you started a thread on it.

If you are of the opinion that the 1978 revelation involved no manifestation of the spirit in a very tangible way, you need to do some more reading. 

[The Nehor]

I know that several exist but I guess they are not for public consumption.

[Alan]

I know that several exist but I guess they are not for public consumption.

 

What would be the point then?

[The Nehor]

What would be the point then?

That the Universe does not revolve around you (or anyone else) and that things are not unimportant just because you do not have access to them.

[Alan]

That the Universe does not revolve around you (or anyone else) and that things are not unimportant just because you do not have access to them.

 

But the prophets receive revelation for us, or at least that's what I thought.

[The Nehor]

But the prophets receive revelation for us, or at least that's what I thought.

They also receive revelation that is not for us.

[Alan]

They also receive revelation that is not for us.

 

Do they? How do you know this?

Is there a scripture somewhere or a statement from the prophet confirming this?

[The Nehor]

Do they? How do you know this?

Is there a scripture somewhere or a statement from the prophet confirming this?

In Nephi's vision he saw things he was told not to write. When Moroni got to the Brother of Jared's revelations he was told to seal that portion. Alma taught that many have the mysteries of God revealed but are only to teach that part that is open to the world. I have heard two apostles mention that they had written revelations they were told not to share. They only told us this as they were trying to teach us how to get our own revelations.

[Alan]

In Nephi's vision he saw things he was told not to write. When Moroni got to the Brother of Jared's revelations he was told to seal that portion. Alma taught that many have the mysteries of God revealed but are only to teach that part that is open to the world. I have heard two apostles mention that they had written revelations they were told not to share. They only told us this as they were trying to teach us how to get our own revelations.

 

Thanks Nehor. Good answer; food for thought.

Who were the two apostles, and when did they say this?

[The Nehor]

Thanks Nehor. Good answer; food for thought.

Who were the two apostles, and when did they say this?

Shouldn't say. It was not in a public meeting.

[Alan]

Shouldn't say. It was not in a public meeting.

 

You see, that's the problem.

It seems to me that this church is more often than not run on rumour.

 

Why does it have to be in a public meeting? Were you sworn to secrecy?

[The Nehor]

You see, that's the problem.

It seems to me that this church is more often than not run on rumour.

 

Why does it have to be in a public meeting? Were you sworn to secrecy?

I was not asked to keep the teaching secret or i obviously would not have shared it. We are instructed not to share notes or quotes from non-public meetings unless the speaker has a chance to review the notes. It is mostly to prevent misunderstandings.

It is not "run on rumors". I shared scriptures that are publicly available that say the same thing: revelations are not always for everyone. A person's curiosity is not sufficient reason to tell them everything. Often the "pearls before swine" admonition applies more to the church membership rather then those outside of the faith.

[Gray]

Do you think the prophet still receives actual revelations or does he just rely on inspiration.  Even the 1978 priesthood revelation was not at least related as a vision or manifestation.  Or do you believe revelation is basically just inspiration and not a visitation or manifestation that seemed more how early visions were recorded.  Is the church now on cruise control with only slight adjustments needed through inspiration, rather than the grand visions and visitations by holy messengers of the early days of the church?

 

I am really curious how members feel about this issue.  I am glad you started a thread on it.

 

Personally I think inspiration is the limit of what we mere mortals are capable of. 

[The Nehor]

Personally I think inspiration is the limit of what we mere mortals are capable of.

Then I am no mere mortal. Mwahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahaahah.........

[Gray]

Then I am no mere mortal. Mwahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahaahah.........

 

Are you the keymaster?

[california boy]

If you are of the opinion that the 1978 revelation involved no manifestation of the spirit in a very tangible way, you need to do some more reading. 

I didn't say there was no manifestation.  I only said I hadn't heard of one. Can you point me to something I could read about how the revelation occurred?  Was there a vision or messenger?  I would love to read about it.

[JLHPROF]

I have often wondered, is the practice of writing revelations a lost art in the LDS church. Obviously the bulk of our written revelations come from Joseph Smith, but his successors wrote a few of their own as well. Many of the early apostles recorded theirs too. I found this...

 

 There are those who would assume that with the printing and binding of these sacred records, that would be the “end of the prophets.” But again we testify to the world that revelation continues and that the vaults and files of the Church contain these revelations which come month to month and day to day. We testify also that there is, since 1830 when The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, and will continue to be, so long as time shall last, a prophet, recognized of God and his people, who will continue to interpret the mind and will of the Lord. 

 

Spencer W. Kimball, In Conference Report, Apr. 1977, 115; or Ensign, May 1977, 77–78.

 

...and it makes me hopeful that there still are revelations being recorded in a similar way that they used to, but I have the feeling that this is not quite the case. Does anyone know of any written revelations recorded by the brethren more recent than, say, Joseph F. Smiths vision of the spirit world? If this tradition has stopped, When? Why? If not, why do we never hear of any? Dont get me wrong, I do believe we have had inspired leaders since those early days. We have had inspired sermons, a few prophecies, inspired policies and announcements, the 1978 revelation, and sure, even the Proclamation to the World. My question is about the writing. Your thoughts please...    

 

"a prophet, recognized of God and his people, who will continue to interpret the mind and will of the Lord" - this statement by SWK is one of the hearts of this issue.  Does the prophet today receive the actual  mind and will of the Lord as the earlier prophets stated, or do they just interpret it based on inspiration and feeling?

 

Even the SWK revelation was not a written revelation, but is described more as a spiritual (I believe "pentecostal" was used) feeling based occurrence.  The question as to why there have been no publicly revealed "thus saith the Lord"/"mind and will of the Lord" written statements since Joseph F. Smith is hard to answer.  Heber J. Grant said the "heavens were as brass" when he tried to receive a revelation like that.

 

Even our official teachings/definitions of revelation have changed their focus.  We haven't changed what we teach is revelation - that's still the same.  But the emphasis is put on inspiration, feelings, promptings etc and far less on God actually speaking to man.

[CV75]

Not all of Joseph's revelations were through visitation or vision, but through revelation i.e. through the direction of the Holy Spirit.  

 

It does seem like our scriptures should be growing in volume with continuing revelation. It never seemed right that it should almost cease to grow.

I don’t think there needs to be a correlation between continuing revelation and volume of cannon. Millions of faithful and diligent people with the Gift of the Holy are “crowned with blessings from above, yea, and with commandments not a few, and with revelations in their time” (D&C 59:4). As John wrote, “if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written.” (John 21:5). And of course the saints have documentation of continuing revelation through general conference and so forth.

Of course this ball (stone) got rolling with the revelations of Joseph Smith, which enable us to have all these revelations and blessings for ourselves. And his or anyone else’s else’s revelation is of no value without one’s own! So I think we (individually, collectively, and our leaders in our behalf) have all the resources we need to get plenty of continuing revelation.

[Kenngo1969]

Forgive me if my contribution is off-topic or only tangentially related.  (And this is not a criticism of anyone specific: if it is, I include myself in it.)  I think the real question is not whether the Brethren still receive revelation in the "thus-saith-the-Lord" sense, or whether, if they do, this revelation or that revelation should be canonized (or why no revelation has been canonized since OD-2, or whether OD-2 is a revelation in itself or whether it's simply an announcement that a revelation was received).  The real question is why we live so far beneath our own privilege to receive revelation. 

 

Joseph Smith once said, "If you live up to your privileges, the angels cannot be restrained from being your associates.”  While I’m not suggesting that, therefore, we would all receive regular revelation via face-to-face heavenly visitation, nonetheless, it is worth asking the question, if angels could be our associates if we lived worthy of that privilege, why wouldn’t we be entitled regularly to less dramatic interactions with the Divine through the Holy Spirit if we lived so as to be able to receive more of those? 

 

While I’m not saying that you’re suggesting that we should rely solely on prophets to receive revelation, remember Moses’s lament in Numbers: “Would God that all the Lord’s people were prophets” (Numbers 11:29).  Each of us is entitled to revelation to guide us within our stewardships within the Church of Jesus Christ, fathers and mothers are entitled to revelation to guide their families, and we’re all entitled to revelation to guide us personally.  The scriptures also tell us that, eventually, the Earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord, and that the Earth itself will become a urim and thummim (Doctrine & Covenants 130:6-9).  That sounds like more revelation to me than a single mouthpiece (or even a large group of them, if we’re speaking only of general Church leadership) can hold.

Edited February 19, 2014 by Kenngo1969

[Ahab]

Does the prophet today receive the actual mind and will of the Lord as the earlier prophets stated, or do they just interpret it based on inspiration and feeling?

Yes to the first question, and I know that by the fact that I receive revelation while knowing I am not more special than they are.

Even the SWK revelation was not a written revelation, but is described more as a spiritual (I believe "pentecostal" was used) feeling based occurrence. The question as to why there have been no publicly revealed "thus saith the Lord"/"mind and will of the Lord" written statements since Joseph F. Smith is hard to answer. Heber J. Grant said the "heavens were as brass" when he tried to receive a revelation like that.

Use of the phrase "thus saith the Lord" is not required and all prophets must wait until God chooses to reveal something to them before they can receive revelation from him.

Even our official teachings/definitions of revelation have changed their focus. We haven't changed what we teach is revelation - that's still the same. But the emphasis is put on inspiration, feelings, promptings etc and far less on God actually speaking to man.

Those are all just descriptions of the different types of revelation God gives us, and all if it is revelation from God as God reveals things to our minds/spirits.