Emma

[cdowis]

 

 

It seems like Emma lost a lot of credibility in the Church for a lot of reasons, and that her standing or star didn't start to rise again in refurbished form until the Church wanted to become the champion of traditional marriage and display to the world what a wonderful couple the two made in their very traditional loving marriage.  So we could make romantic bronze statues of them with women who faithfully devoted their lives and talents to the Church and who were also married to Joseph, like Eliza Snow, conveniently disappearing from the scene.  Its amazing how as Emma's star has risen, Eliza's has seemingly set.  Emma who raised all of her children to be join splinter groups is now extolled.  I can understand and sympathize with Emma's predicament, but it seems like she is perhaps just a bit over extolled these days -- when we set mothers on major guilt trips when none of their sons go on missions and their children go inactive -- and yet how many faithful women in the Church raise kids who join Churches which for decades attacked the Church?

 

Emma has been denigrated for decades.  I have had some very negative feelings about her.

 

But I think we have been overly harsh, and need to remember she had many hardships and made many sacrifices.  I think it is about time that we do not need to put her on a pedestal but to see her within the proper context.  For example, I had seen her denial of Joseph's  polygamy in deference to the Reorganized Church, but later discovered that it was actually in the context of protecting her family, especially one of her sons who was having serious mental problems.

 

Joseph loved and cherished her to the very end, and we need to respect her.

 

Just my personal view.

Edited January 22, 2014 by cdowis

[Tacenda]

Emma has been denigrated for decades.  I have had some very negative feelings about her.

 

But I think we have been overly harsh, and need to remember she had many hardships and made many sacrifices.  I think it is about time that we do not need to put her on a pedestal but to see her within the proper context.  For example, I had seen her denial of Joseph's  polygamy in deference to the Reorganized Church, but later discovered that it was actually in the context of protecting her family, especially one of her sons who was having serious mental problems.

 

Joseph loved and cherished her to the very end, and we need to respect her.

 

Just my personal view.

 

Whomever doesn't respect her, is nuts. 

Edited January 22, 2014 by Tacenda

[JLHPROF]

 

Whomever doesn't respect her, is nuts. 

 

The issue for me isn't respecting Emma.  I have much respect for her.  The issue is the absolute ignoring of Joseph Smith's other wives and portraying Emma as his one and only true love.

[EllenMaksoud]

Emma has been denigrated for decades.  I have had some very negative feelings about her.

 

But I think we have been overly harsh, and need to remember she had many hardships and made many sacrifices.  I think it is about time that we do not need to put her on a pedestal but to see her within the proper context.  For example, I had seen her denial of Joseph's  polygamy in deference to the Reorganized Church, but later discovered that it was actually in the context of protecting her family, especially one of her sons who was having serious mental problems.

 

Joseph loved and cherished her to the very end, and we need to respect her.

 

Just my personal view.

Considering what she went through, I think she served above and beyond the call of duty.

[Helen47]

Do you think Joseph always informed Emma of his wherabouts, especially visiting one of his plural wives.?

[The Nehor]

Don't know. She had a difficult life but I don't get a pass on my sins and rebellion when my life is harder. Still, bad to condemn. I am told I will be judged by the same judgment I mete out so I hope she and Joseph have been reunited in happiness.

 

An old Ensign article about her: https://www.lds.org/ensign/1992/08/my-great-great-grandmother-emma-hale-smith?lang=eng

 

 

The issue for me isn't respecting Emma.  I have much respect for her.  The issue is the absolute ignoring of Joseph Smith's other wives and portraying Emma as his one and only true love.

 

I think it is more following the Proverb:

 

"Let thy fountain be blessed: and rejoice with the wife of thy youth."

 

Later wives.....meh......

[thesometimesaint]

Emma has been denigrated for decades.  I have had some very negative feelings about her.

 

But I think we have been overly harsh, and need to remember she had many hardships and made many sacrifices.  I think it is about time that we do not need to put her on a pedestal but to see her within the proper context.  For example, I had seen her denial of Joseph's  polygamy in deference to the Reorganized Church, but later discovered that it was actually in the context of protecting her family, especially one of her sons who was having serious mental problems.

 

Joseph loved and cherished her to the very end, and we need to respect her.

 

Just my personal view.

 

Agreed.

[why me]

Do you think Joseph always informed Emma of his wherabouts, especially visiting one of his plural wives.?

How can we know? I think that they both loved each other and when Joseph was murdered she wore for the rest of her life a locket with a piece of his hair inside.

[cinepro]

I once heard about a woman in my ward seeing the picture of Emma in the RS room and commenting to the person sitting next to her "I don't know how I feel about having her picture there."  My response would have been "I'm pretty sure Emma doesn't want to be there either..."

[Storm Rider]

I have no problem with Emma and her story should be told just as readily as we tell the story of other individuals at the beginning for the restoration. 

 

For me she has always been a rather complex individual. The Bidamon relationship has always been a problem; it always seemed less than noble or beneath her. However, I never walked in her shoes and I did not experience what she experienced. I suspect she was looking for a surcease and hopefully she found it.

Edited January 23, 2014 by Storm Rider

[Helen47]

Did he really love the other wives?  Were they to be part deprived of his company, only have sex on the run, hope for children.

 

Helen: Please review the board guidelines.  Discussing sexual behavior of LDS leaders, past or present, will not be allowed

[oremites]

Emma has been denigrated for decades.  I have had some very negative feelings about her.

 

But I think we have been overly harsh...

 

Could you be more specific about what you mean by "we" and "denigrate" and "harsh"? 

 

Emma hasn't been a big topic of conversation around me, but I don't remember anything I'd call "denigrating".  I think she gets a lot of respect and sympathy for what she did and what she went through. 

[oremites]

I once heard about a woman in my ward ...

 

So you, personally, haven't heard anyone badmouth Emma?  I'm trying to remember if I have, but I can't recall anything.

[The Nehor]

So you, personally, haven't heard anyone badmouth Emma?  I'm trying to remember if I have, but I can't recall anything.

We had a guy in an institute class sing a love song about Emma with his guitar with the singer personifying Joseph. I think he was trying to stir up interest so he could sell albums.

[Kenngo1969]

We should never forget that it wasn't Lewis Bidamon's name on Emma's lips, but Joseph's ... not once, not twice, but thrice as she departed this life.

[cinepro]

So you, personally, haven't heard anyone badmouth Emma?  I'm trying to remember if I have, but I can't recall anything.

 

I don't recall anything directly.

 

This blog post is a fascinating overview of the Church's attitude towards Emma, as it relates to the Emma bio published in the early 1980s:

 

http://janariess.religionnews.com/2013/04/23/the-reinvention-of-mormon-emma-smith/

 

 

 

The way that current materials deal with the conflict with Brigham Young is . . . to ignore it entirely. According to the official narrative, Emma stayed behind in Nauvoo rather than joining the majority of the Saints in Utah because she was a widow caring for five young children and Joseph’s aging mother, not because she believed that, as she expressed it at the time, “the Twelve have made bogus of it"

Although she never lost her faith in the Mormon religion and in the sacred nature of the Book of Mormon, she had no testimony of Brigham Young and other polygamous LDS leaders.

 

What’s especially interesting to me about the unfolding historiography of Emma Smith is that she herself would have been happy with the disappearance of polygamy and Joseph’s other wives from Mormonism’s official party line. This was exactly what she had tried to institute herself as a theological agent in her own right, so much so that when the Reorganization was founded in the 1860s she declared that Joseph had never been married to anyone but herself. Emma knew better, but she also knew that a polygamous history would not serve her needs.

 

In a remarkable twist of irony, her version of history is increasingly the LDS Church’s as well.

Edited January 22, 2014 by cinepro

[Stone holm]

Since it was my quote that triggered this I guess I should respond. I have great sympathy and respect for Emma as a person. Having said that, it does appear to me that the Church over the last half century or so has refurbished her image somewhat, and has caused some other women to be more shunted into the shadows. If for example you wanted to focus on a heroine, why not Hyrum's widow. We put a pretty heavy guilt trip on parents with the phrase, that no success compensates for failure in the home. Am not suggesting that there was failure in the home in the sense the world judges home life, but many LDS parents view that in terms of children serving missions, marriages in the Church, Church activity of children . So exactly how does that play out as to how would we view a member's widow who not only left the Church, but later joined a Church which was denouncing our Church and whose children were leaders of a Church which denounced our Church? Exactly how does that fit? At the same time, we allow people like Eliza Snow to fade towards obscurity. To what extent is this refurbishing to do with our growing stance as champions of traditional marriage?

[EllenMaksoud]

The issue for me isn't respecting Emma.  I have much respect for her.  The issue is the absolute ignoring of Joseph Smith's other wives and portraying Emma as his one and only true love.

Um, so how many procreative wives did he have? I mean with children fathered by Joseph Smith.

[katherine the great]

Since it was my quote that triggered this I guess I should respond. I have great sympathy and respect for Emma as a person. Having said that, it does appear to me that the Church over the last half century or so has refurbished her image somewhat, and has caused some other women to be more shunted into the shadows. If for example you wanted to focus on a heroine, why not Hyrum's widow. We put a pretty heavy guilt trip on parents with the phrase, that no success compensates for failure in the home. Am not suggesting that there was failure in the home in the sense the world judges home life, but many LDS parents view that in terms of children serving missions, marriages in the Church, Church activity of children . So exactly how does that play out as to how would we view a member's widow who not only left the Church, but later joined a Church which was denouncing our Church and whose children were leaders of a Church which denounced our Church? Exactly how does that fit? At the same time, we allow people like Eliza Snow to fade towards obscurity. To what extent is this refurbishing to do with our growing stance as champions of traditional marriage?

Is there only room in the church for one great woman?  I would like to see more women in general being spoken of positively in this church where at least 90% (probably much more) of all curriculum focuses on the great men our religion has produced--even in Relief Society.  I don't think that speaking positively about this remarkable woman in any way lessens the remarkable contributions of our other sisters in the gospel who made great sacrifices for their faith.

[juliann]

Could you be more specific about what you mean by "we" and "denigrate" and "harsh"? 

 

Emma hasn't been a big topic of conversation around me, but I don't remember anything I'd call "denigrating".  I think she gets a lot of respect and sympathy for what she did and what she went through. 

 

Her name was closer to a hiss and a byword.  At best, she was a pathetic fallen creature. The first time I heard anything completely positive was in the 70s in a college church institute.

[juliann]

We should never forget that it wasn't Lewis Bidamon's name on Emma's lips, but Joseph's ... not once, not twice, but thrice as she departed this life.

We have also made Bidamon into a second class citizen but according to what I have read, they had a loving relationship and she certainly stuck by him.  He also defended the Mormons when he wasn't one.  I admire the guy.  I wonder if Emma carried a lot of guilt over Joseph's death her entire life.  She was one of those who demanded that he return when he was running for his life.

Edited January 23, 2014 by juliann

[Calm]

We have also made Bidamon into a second class citizen but according to what I have read, they had a loving relationship and she certainly stuck by him. He also defended the Mormons when he wasn't one. I admire the guy.

I am glad to hear this. The only thing I really knew about him was his own indiscretion which ended with Emma taking his child into their home...which has always made me wonder if the stories of her reactions to Joseph's relationships were inflated or if she had decided it was better to have the man she loved no matter what (or something else of course...most likely a combination of things).

PS: just read a delightful short bio about the man and his relationship with Emma. Besides a great sense of humor, he seems like a considerate father, his children being of great importance to him. I personally know how attractive both can be. It seems like Emma had much happiness in her life with him.

https://byustudies.byu.edu/PDFLibrary/19.3AveryNewellLewis-43dca773-e2a0-4db8-8422-2b539732cfba.pdf

Edited January 23, 2014 by calmoriah

[cdowis]

I know that BY had hard feelings towards her.  

 

I vaguely remember that BY and some of the brethren wanted to help JS to escape from Carthage.  He went to Emma to get JS's horse, and she refused to allow him to take it.  As I understand, he partially blamed her for the death of Joseph for not allowing him to take the horse.

Edited January 23, 2014 by cdowis

[Calm]

Apparently that was the result of mixed communications (and it was not BY). Joseph told one man (Markham) to pick the horse up in the morning and then told the other later (Rockwell) to pick them up in the evening. Rockwell got to Emma first with a letter from Joseph and passed on his instructions so Emma resisted Markham's attempt to remove them in the morning.

Also apparently some involved swore that Emma convinced them to bring Joseph back when they may have been the ones who convinced her out of fear of destruction of their property.

http://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/Dialogue_V17N03_89.pdf

Starts page 93...

Edited January 23, 2014 by calmoriah

[JulieM]

We should never forget that it wasn't Lewis Bidamon's name on Emma's lips, but Joseph's ... not once, not twice, but thrice as she departed this life.

And she did marry Bidamon on Joseph's birthday. I've wondered if that was intentional and if so, why?