Can We Mormons Get Our Groove On?

[Bernard Gui]

It's called legalism. Too worried about the letter of the law, not the spirit.. I would like to know who or what told this bishop that singing the "Amazing Grace" song was bad, it's right up there with, wearing a cross is bad, I guess. ETA: Anyone have the who or what?

Schubert's Ave Maria is one of the most beautiful religious songs, but sacrament meeting is not the place for it.

[changed]

Re; Amazing Grace, I was told we don't sing it because we're not saved by grace, but only grace after all that we can do (grace + works).  I do love that song though. 

[Bernard Gui]

Well the strength of the church- even though it is so centralized- is that each stake president really runs a "mini-church" and makes the decisions locally subject to his "interpretation" of the manual.

 

So gospel music in Utah?  Probably not- but if the stake president interprets the guidelines so that it is appropriate, then it is appropriate.  So indeed I would think a stake president in India might see it differently.

Heard any mariachi bands in sacrament meeting lately?

[Bernard Gui]

Well, very few could rivaal Mahalia.

No doubt, but in sacrament meeting belting out Oh God the Eternal Father might not be appropriate.

[Bernard Gui]

For the record (and I'm sure you understand this already) neither of those melodies is indigenously LDS.

 

As a child, I learned "Go Tell Aunt Rody" about the same time I learned "Lord Dismiss Us with Thy Blessings." Both are set to the same melody.

 

And those old enough to remember the early '70s will recall a popular song by Ray Stevens called "Everything Is Beautiful." It included a chorus of children singing the Protestant song "Jesus Loves the Little Children." It was the first time I'd heard the melody of "In Our Lovely Deseret" with different words.

 

Edited to add:

 

"Do What Is Right" has the same melody as "The Old Oaken Bucket."

And Praise to the Man is a rewrite of Erin Go Bragh. Life is Like a Mountain Railway=Truth Reflects Upon Our Senses.

[Bernard Gui]

Not that unusual since the Battle Hymn of the Republic uses the tune if John Browns Body.

Look in the back of the hymnbook and you will find melodies and texts that can be interchanged.

[volgadon]

Not that unusual since the Battle Hymn of the Republic uses the tune if John Browns Body.

 

I have to stop myself from singing JBB when Battle Hymn is played at church.

[Bernard Gui]

I am the primary pianist - the primary book has the chords written in, and as someone who plays Jazz, if you write in the chords for something, that means I get to use the chords .  Our primary programs (at least) are rocken

I suppose. What is your motivation to rock the Primary? Do you rock the Primary sacrament meeting?

[volgadon]

And Praise to the Man is a rewrite of Erin Go Bragh.

 

Not the Erin Go Bragh that I know.

 

[Bernard Gui]

Re; Amazing Grace, I was told we don't sing it because we're not saved by grace, but only grace after all that we can do (grace + works).  I do love that song though.

Not to launch a new topic of salvation by grace, but you were told wrong.

[Bernard Gui]

I have to stop myself from singing JBB when Battle Hymn is played at church.

And Sister Gui jabs me in the ribs when I sing

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xDrFJ7k9jOA&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DxDrFJ7k9jOA

instead of Truth Reflects Upon Our Senses. Someone is going to say, "Hey! That's my favorite hymn!"

There is no accounting for musical taste.

[Bernard Gui]

Not the Erin Go Bragh that I know.

 

I am sooooo embarrassed.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vBKBI7DOLHA&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DvBKBI7DOLHA

[Bernard Gui]

So the only acceptable culture is Utah Mormon and old protestant hymns rewritten to have a pioneer flavor?

Not at all. I am speaking strictly of sacrament meeting. I believe there should be purity and consistency church-wide in our sacrament meeting hymnody. There are other venues for us to explore the rich diversity of world music.

[Bernard Gui]

For many, many years there were only a handful of our hymns translated into Russian. One of the Russian members had taken the melody used for "In Humility, Our Savior," and penned some exquisitely beautiful verses on Jesus. In my opinion there was little equal to it in any hymn book of any denomination. Sadly, when a new, Russian green hymn book as released in 2005 or so, the committee dropped the hymn in favour of a rather wooden translation of "In Humility."

His version could legitimately be performed as a worship song by soloist or choir in sacrament meeting. More power to hymn. Maybe he could submit it to the Ensign for publication.

[Bernard Gui]

When you have little evangelical congregations you can pick local music preferences.

In a worldwide church, the issue gets much more complicated. Finding some balance is going to be a problem.

Not necessarily. There is sufficient latitude built into the service in the form of special music for sacrament meeting. In addition, this could be sung at a stake conference or in any other meeting including Relief Society, Priesthood, or ward talent show, fireside, or dinner. It could even be done in those venues using local styles and instruments. Wouldn't a throat-singing version be interesting?

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dyhs1EcPxis

Edited January 5, 2014 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

There is actually a branch of Aesthetic theory in philosophy dedicated to the questions of whether or not the artist's intentions are, or should be considered, relevant to the interpretation of the art.

I would propose that this is one of the greatest (and least known) hymns/carols to the baby Jesus ever written. It is a section of perhaps the most beautiful and moving (and least known) Christmas oratorios ever written. I am profoundly touched by it even after 40 years of listening to it and performing it a number of times. Masterful lyrics (Luther/Coverdale ) and music (Ralph Vaughan-Williams) are combined to make this a peerless hymn. There are LDS musicians and poets capable of this.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u8DRhxoqYzs&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Du8DRhxoqYzs

The blessed son of God only

In a crib full poor did lie;

With our poor flesh and our poor blood

Was clothed that everlasting good.

Kyrieleison.

The Lord Christ Jesu, God's son dear,

Was a guest and a stranger here;

Us for to bring from misery,

That we might live eternally.

Kyrieleison.

All this did he for us freely,

For to declare his great mercy;

All Christendom be merry therefore,

And give him thanks for evermore.

Kyrieleison.

Yet Ralph Vaughan-Williams was not a Christian. He was agnostic.

We use several of his melodies in our hymnbook.

The Latin Kyrieleison would not be appropriate for LDS performance, but a substitution of

God Have Mercy or Thanks be to God would.

Edited January 5, 2014 by Bernard Gui

[volgadon]

Speaking of Vaughan Williams, there is this, with an interesting (to put it mildly) paraphrase of John Bunyan.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwQU3JNNPIY

[Bernard Gui]

Speaking of Vaughan Williams, there is this, with an interesting (to put it mildly) paraphrase of John Bunyan.

Indeed! Do you know the whole Pilgrim's Progress? Remarkable piece.

I was fortunate to perform it a while back.

I believe someone should study the effect of Bunyan on LDS belief.

Unto him that overcometh shall be given of the tree of Life

which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.

On either side of the river groweth the Tree of Life,

the Leaves of the Tree are for thy healing.

In the midst of that fair City flows the river of Water of Life clear as crystal

Who so will, let him take of the Water of Life freely.

Who so drinketh of this water shall never thirst.

Take thou the Leaves of the Tree of Life.

So shalt thou enter in through the Gates of the City.

Edited January 5, 2014 by Bernard Gui

[Tacenda]

Schubert's Ave Maria is one of the most beautiful religious songs, but sacrament meeting is not the place for it.

I guess I now know why it wasn't suppose to be sung, we are not wretches in this church. Plain and simple.

[Stone holm]

I have to stop myself from singing JBB when Battle Hymn is played at church.

It is my favorite hymn. She supposedly heard the slaves singing JBB the night before the lyrics came to her.

[Calm]

His version could legitimately be performed as a worship song by soloist or choir in sacrament meeting. More power to hymn. Maybe he could submit it to the Ensign for publication.

I think the Liahona is the nonEnglish version of the Ensign....

[volgadon]

She, actually, and Calmoriah is right.

Also, Cal, if you were in Russia before 2005, then you have probably seen the light brown hymnals with the tulip print, and ring binding.

[volgadon]

Indeed! Do you know the whole Pilgrim's Progress? Remarkable piece.

I was fortunate to perform it a while back.

I believe someone should study the effect of Bunyan on LDS belief.

 

Vaughan Williams was a genius in ym estimation.

 

I've always wanted to see a proper study of Bunyan and Mormonism, so hopefully someone will take up the challenge.

[volgadon]

No doubt, but in sacrament meeting belting out Oh God the Eternal Father might not be appropriate.

 

Mahalia did more than belt out songs.

[Calm]

She, actually, and Calmoriah is right.

Also, Cal, if you were in Russia before 2005, then you have probably seen the light brown hymnals with the tulip print, and ring binding.

2005 actually so just missed them.  We were in an English speaking international ward as well so just had the same old, same old.

 

The Russian ward met right before us, so there was a little interaction....mainly a lot of smiles.

Edited January 5, 2014 by calmoriah