D&C 89 Conspiring Men In The Latter Days

[Stone holm]

I was just reading the Church's brief filed in the Monsanto case before the SCOTUS and....oh wait, that was in the Prop 8 case. So we can have people monopolize seed production for crops, inject potentially harmful genes into our foodstock, and do a variety of other things to our food, but since it doesn't involve sex I guess it doesn't involve morality. Wonder if we will have any talks about planting gardens and home production this weekend? Wonder if there will be any advice about avoiding certain pesticides and herbicides? Maybe some discussion about food additives and food coloring, I wonder if that is what the treats thingy is going to be about.

[Gillebre]

I think the advice we'll receive will be to live as Christlike a life as possible, so that we can better hear His voice guide and direct us in our day-to-day activities.

[Danzo]

inject potentially harmful genes into our foodstock

What genes and what is harmful about them?

[Stone holm]

What genes and what is harmful about them?

Are you even aware of the Monsanto suit?

[Tacenda]

I think it might not be a sex thing Stone holm but a $ thing. A very TBM posted a list of things on FB that might happen if SSM was legalized and he said the church would lose it's tax exemption, don't know how that works though.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Tacenda

[MormonMason]

Are you even aware of the Monsanto suit?

If you are talking about Monsanto vs. Bowman, then, yes, I am aware of it. Monsanto has so many lawsuits, both for and against, going on right now that it is difficult to keep them all straight.

As to whether the gene is potentially harmful, I do not think so. All that it does is to make the soy plant resistant to herbicides such as Roundup. That means greater yields and less losses to accidental exposure to herbicides. I do not think that Doctrine and Covenants 89 would apply, in this case.

[canard78]

Will they, at the same time, encourage people to avoid the texan stake house on their way home from Priesthood session? The lopsidedness of the way D&C is taught and applied is a reminder that it seems to be much easier for the judges in Israel to measure people by the 'do-nots' than the 'dos.'

I don't drink alcohol, but if I did, would I be better or worse than those who eat meat daily or those who eat grains and fruits out of season? If I did, should I be more or less entitled to a temple recommend than them.

Everyone assumes the 'conspiring men' refers to the marketeers in alcohol/tobacco companies. I think those trying to influence the way we eat and hurting our bodes as a result could fall in a very similar category. The church would do well to spend time educating members about the full range of the word of wisdom, especially as Mormons are more likely to be obese than non-Mormons (14% more likely).

http://www.nbcnews.c...8/#.UV5Ro6LddIE

"For years, the church has focused on the don'ts -- don't smoke, don't drink, and all the other things that you shouldn't do that are heavily enforced," said Steve Aldana, a BYU professor who presented some of the study's findings at a recent heart conference at Utah Valley Regional Medical Center.

"There has been little emphasis on the do's -- eat good foods and exercise," he said. "In the church, we have a lot of don'ts, and now finally here's a do -- go ahead and do eat -- and boy, do we eat."

Edited April 5, 2013 by canard78

[Calm]

it seems to be much easier for the judges in Israel to measure people by the 'do-nots' than the 'dos.'

Or the church leadership has decided to help the members at the beginning level with the simplest of things in the WoW to avoid while rather than dictating to the members how to obey the Lord in all things instead is allowing the members who have learnt to be obedient in the small things to work on their own spiritual progress by seeking out the spirit on how to best follow the rest of the WoW.

[Danzo]

Are you even aware of the Monsanto suit?

Its a patent suit.

Again, what is harmful about the genes and what does the word of wisdom have to do with the lawsuit?

[BCSpace]

I have a problem with the monopolization, but I have no problem with GMO or irradiated food. As for "conspiring men" in D&C 89, the first thing I envision is a man buying a woman a drink. But there certainly could be more convoluted plans.

[canard78]

Or the church leadership has decided to help the members at the beginning level with the simplest of things in the WoW to avoid while rather than dictating to the members how to obey the Lord in all things instead is allowing the members who have learnt to be obedient in the small things to work on their own spiritual progress by seeking out the spirit on how to best follow the rest of the WoW.

Perhaps... but I'm not sure I've heard much of them even trying to teach the "meat sparingly." A search of conferences on LDS.org throws up 2 results for that phrase. One of which is actually a bit of a playing down of the principle:

Young people, learn to use moderation and common sense in matters of health and nutrition, and particularly in medication. Avoid being extreme or fanatical or becoming a faddist.

For example, the Word of Wisdom counsels us to eat meat sparingly (seeD&C 89:12). Lest someone become extreme, we are told in another revelation that “whoso forbiddeth to [eat meat] is not ordained of God” (D&C 49:18).

http://www.lds.org/general-conference/1996/04/the-word-of-wisdom-the-principle-and-the-promises?lang=eng

The other is here:

http://www.lds.org/general-conference/1983/04/a-principle-with-a-promise?lang=eng

There may be more that I've missed due to the nature of the search, but two references in General Conference (the last nearly 2 decades ago) suggests there's really little attempt to emphasise this.

The Ensign has a few further examples:

http://www.lds.org/search?q=%22used%20sparingly%22〈=eng&domains=magazines

But it's very much given as a principle of good health or dietary recommendations. There's even an article which relates the 'dos' to possible cancer avoidance benefits: http://www.lds.org/ensign/2008/07/cancer-nutrition-and-the-word-of-wisdom-one-doctors-observations?lang=eng

Where in the actual revelation does it suggest that the 'do nots' are the simple things that should be a question of faith and condition for qualifying for recommend, but the 'dos' are rarely taught and never considered a question of faith. In the actual revelation no distinction is made between the two.

[canard78]

I have a problem with the monopolization, but I have no problem with GMO or irradiated food. As for "conspiring men" in D&C 89, the first thing I envision is a man buying a woman a drink. But there certainly could be more convoluted plans.

And a man taking his wife to an all you can eat BBQ joint? Or a man buying his girlfriend strawberries in January (shock horror!)

[MormonMason]

As to the obesity study, sometimes it is not food at all but the kinds of jobs that many Mormons have. Deskjockeys tend to gain weight faster than those who aren't, regardless of what they eat, or don't.

[BCSpace]

And a man taking his wife to an all you can eat BBQ joint?

Nope. Legal under the Law of Chastity.

[Alan]

The WoW is much more far reaching than most realise, in my view.

The evil and conspiring men certainly include the Monsanto thugs, and many others we could think of.

I work as an ecologist and some years ago I became aware of the staggering amount of furtile land which is used for coffee production, tea production, barley and hop production (for alcoholic products); and of course tobacco production.

Millions of acres given over to big business and industrial scale production of non-food cash crops, often in the very countries where local populations are hungry and while millions of people starve to death. Evil and conspiring is a very good description of these men.

Like I said, there is deeper meaning to the WoW is it applies in the 21st century.

And don't get me started on the meat and dairy industry!

Edited April 5, 2013 by Alan

[canard78]

The WoW is much more far reaching than most realise, in my view.

The evil and conspiring men certainly include the Monsanto thugs, and many others we could think of.

I work as an ecologist and some years ago I became aware of the staggering amount of furtile land which is used for coffee production, tea production, barley and hop production (for alcoholic products); and of course tobacco production.

Millions of acres given over to big business and industrial scale production of non-food cash crops, often in the very countries where local populations are hungry and while millions of people starve to death. Evil and conspiring is a very good description of these men.

Like I said, there is deeper meaning to the WoW is it applies in the 21st century.

And don't get me started on the meat and dairy industry!

How about the pretty, inapropriately named, yellow flowers being grown in every second field in UK for 'bio-fuel'? Soon the words of Jerusalem will have to change to "...in England's yellow and pleasant land."

[canard78]

Nope. Legal under the Law of Chastity.

But not the WoW?

[Stone holm]

The WoW is much more far reaching than most realise, in my view.

The evil and conspiring men certainly include the Monsanto thugs, and many others we could think of.

I work as an ecologist and some years ago I became aware of the staggering amount of furtile land which is used for coffee production, tea production, barley and hop production (for alcoholic products); and of course tobacco production.

Millions of acres given over to big business and industrial scale production of non-food cash crops, often in the very countries where local populations are hungry and while millions of people starve to death. Evil and conspiring is a very good description of these men.

Like I said, there is deeper meaning to the WoW is it applies in the 21st century.

And don't get me started on the meat esand dairy industry!

Notice in this thread that nearly everyone jumped to the idea of people controlling themselves as to diet, rather than perhaps inquiring into the ethics of the food industry. Yet, if we were talking about sex , we would not only ve talking about self control we would be condemning the porn industry and advocating against gay marriage, etc. I am reminded of a saying by Voltaire, When it comes to money we are all of one religion.

[Monster]

As to the obesity study, sometimes it is not food at all but the kinds of jobs that many Mormons have. Deskjockeys tend to gain weight faster than those who aren't, regardless of what they eat, or don't.

Weight gain has nothing to do with your job. It is strictly a result of the calories you put in your mouth as opposed to those you burn. Eat less stay lean. Deskjockeys just want to eat the same amount as their construction worker friends and have the same result. Not gonna happen.

It is fear mongering to say genetically enhance food is bad. What is bad is those that try to stop it, thus depriving the world of enhanced food production and disease and insect resistant foods. We have been modifying food for thousands of years. That strawberry , apple or ear of corn you eat has little resemblance to its predecessor of 5000 years ago. If we had taken the erroneous notion back then to stop manipulating food we would have never made it to modern day civilization.

Since the D&C clearly advocates the drinking of beer it is apparent that conspiring men are those that would prevent this pleasure in life.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Monster

[dgd]

Weight gain has nothing to do with your job. It is strictly a result of the calories you put in your mouth as opposed to those you burn. Eat less stay lean. Deskjockeys just want to eat the same amount as their construction worker friends and have the same result. Not gonna happen.

While I agree with this by and large, I believe there are many influencing factors infuencing weight gain in our society. It is my opinion that "evil and conspiring men" are far more common place than many people think. For example I would classify those that put financial gain ahead of another's well being as evil and conspring. We live in a society where new chemicals and compounds are regularly introduced into products. I used to read cereal boxes as a kid and wonder what all the ingredients were. Naively I believed that everything there must be safe becuase the goverment would not allow companies to put something in there and sell it to us unless they could prove it was safe. Sadly the opposite is true. Things need to be proven as unsafe before they are removed from products we buy.

Look up obesogens to read about chemical compounds that contribute to obesity. I can't believe how many people I know that have had gastric bybass surgery. Are they really just that weak willed? Consider the rubbish that we pass off as food in our modern society. Do you really know what you are eating? Products that we often really have no idea what has gone into them. So many foods engineered to taste good and make us want to come back for more yet nutritionally lacking ...

Evil and conspiring men indeed.

[thesometimesaint]

Conspiring men is any group that tries to take away your ability to choose.

[MormonMason]

Weight gain has nothing to do with your job. It is strictly a result of the calories you put in your mouth as opposed to those you burn. Eat less stay lean. Deskjockeys just want to eat the same amount as their construction worker friends and have the same result. Not gonna happen.

It is fear mongering to say genetically enhance food is bad. What is bad is those that try to stop it, thus depriving the world of enhanced food production and disease and insect resistant foods. We have been modifying food for thousands of years. That strawberry , apple or ear of corn you eat has little resemblance to its predecessor of 5000 years ago. If we had taken the erroneous notion back then to stop manipulating food we would have never made it to modern day civilization.

Since the D&C clearly advocates the drinking of beer it is apparent that conspiring men are those that would prevent this pleasure in life.

That is an oversimplification. There are many factors contributing to weight gain, including metabolic ones. You also cannot restrict calories too far without killing the organism as a result of shortages in nutrition that come as a result. In addition, in some cases limiting of calories for a deskjockey also can result in the body's storage mechanism kicking in. The body has such a mechanism that kicks in when chemical signals of famine appear in the body as a result of prolonged calorie-restriction. When that happens you will gain weight even with calorie restriction.

In yet other cases, a gene that resulted in survival of humans in times of famine can kill a person over time by inflicting diabetes. There is also hormone disruption as a result of high levels of BPA in some foods. Metabolic disorders often result in insulin resistance in deskjockeys, which then results in weight gains. Get stuck with diabetes medicines and that will often result in weight gains regardless of how much or how little one eats. I know because I see it all the time.

As to your argument about modified foods, you are preaching to the choir. Are you even addressing me or all the participants in the thread?

As to the beer argument, there are a number of barley and other mild drinks that are not technically beers. I have sampled a few of those over my lifetime. I particularly prefer a German variety of a particular barley-based drink, the name of which escapes me at the moment, but it was not beer. I think the Word of Wisdom addresses those rather than alcoholic beers.

[CV75]

I was just reading the Church's brief filed in the Monsanto case before the SCOTUS and....oh wait, that was in the Prop 8 case. So we can have people monopolize seed production for crops, inject potentially harmful genes into our foodstock, and do a variety of other things to our food, but since it doesn't involve sex I guess it doesn't involve morality. Wonder if we will have any talks about planting gardens and home production this weekend? Wonder if there will be any advice about avoiding certain pesticides and herbicides? Maybe some discussion about food additives and food coloring, I wonder if that is what the treats thingy is going to be about.

Adam and Eve became genetically modified by eating the forbidden fruit; turnabout is fair play!

I don't think this is an issue of the Church's stance on GMO so much as its stance on feeding people given today's realities.

[Stone holm]

I think the point is that we have clear doctrine that there will be "conspiring men" in the latter days who will affect the food supply. Yet, we hear about conspiracies such as the "gay agenda", or the "secular church", etc. But do we hear much questioning about conspiracies regarding the food supply whether direct due to genetic alteration of food, monopoly of seedstock, food additives, or indirect impact on food because of environmental issues? If we are, I am not hearing it. In the days of Brigham Young there were constantly comments about farming practices, etc. As to the specifics of the Word of Wisdom, we tend to see more rationalizations regarding meat consumption -- exactly when was the last famine in the lower 48 States or periods of extreme cold? True it would be false doctrine to forbid the consumption of meat, so does that mean we don't talk about it all when Prophets have been very clear about the limited periods during which it should be consumed. Is it not the case that "morality" is more and more being limited to "sexual morality"? And I am not just speaking in terms of the Church, but in American Christianity in general -- with the possible exception of the Catholics?

[Nathair/|\]

I was just reading the Church's brief filed in the Monsanto case before the SCOTUS and....oh wait, that was in the Prop 8 case. So we can have people monopolize seed production for crops, inject potentially harmful genes into our foodstock, and do a variety of other things to our food, but since it doesn't involve sex I guess it doesn't involve morality. Wonder if we will have any talks about planting gardens and home production this weekend? Wonder if there will be any advice about avoiding certain pesticides and herbicides? Maybe some discussion about food additives and food coloring, I wonder if that is what the treats thingy is going to be about.

Was there a major election where the electorate overwhelmingly voted to keep previous standards regarding Monsanto or GMO's in place that was overturned by lobbyists and judges?

Is there a push by GMO company leaders to force the Church to plant immoral seeds in her fields?

If not, I don't think it's fair to compare this lawsuit with Prop 8.