Why Are We Upset That Some Women Want The Priesthood?

[Bikeemikey]

If God revealed in the upcoming conference that women were to have the priesthood would any of you mind or have a problem with it?

My observations suggest that most of the people expressing concern with the current debate around women and the priesthood have an issue with the process that is being used... very few of them actually care if women get the priesthood or not...

Given that the prophets/apostles won't make any substantial changes without a firm belief god has told them to make the change why do you care about the process/protest over this issue? It is not going to make any difference in church practice or policy unless god tells the leaders to make the change.

So why are people so upset? Is it the process that people are using to make their thoughts heard? If not, what is it?

[Stargazer]

I voted neutral because I sustain the FP and Q12 as prophets, seers and revelators.

But there's about as much chance of this happening as there being six Sundays in a month. If something like this were going to happen, it would have happened in Joseph Smith's day. Since it didn't happen then, it won't happen later, either. Possible exception being in the Millenium, but there doesn't seem to be a good chance of it happening then, either.

[CASteinman]

I voted disapprove/upset. But I would not disapprove. I would just be upset.

I would be upset because of a dream I have had that was related to this where I think it results in a tremendous, huge setback for the Church and the Gospel in the World -- at least for now.

But I would not disapprove.

On the other hand, besides being in my view a bad idea.. it is also utterly unnecessary ... but that sort of gets back to it being a bad idea.

There are some changes though that could be made that probably would be a really good idea.

Edited March 27, 2013 by CASteinman

[BCSpace]

As active worthy priesthood holders to fill the more challenging callings are relatively scarce in most Wards and Stakes, I would rejoice as there are at least twice as many worthy women as men available to take those callings. You wanted it, you can have it. Send me back to the Primary, even as chorister; they don't do that right anymore (my mother did it right) and I would really turn things upside down. Anyone up for a rousing rendition of Little Purple Pansies?

Edited March 27, 2013 by BCSpace

[TAO]

If God appointed it, I'd have no problem. Still, I'd offer caution with the current hype in this area right now.

[Pahoran]

If God revealed in the upcoming conference that women were to have the priesthood would any of you mind or have a problem with it?

My observations suggest that most of the people expressing concern with the current debate around women and the priesthood have an issue with the process that is being used... very few of them actually care if women get the priesthood or not...

Given that the prophets/apostles won't make any substantial changes without a firm belief god has told them to make the change why do you care about the process/protest over this issue? It is not going to make any difference in church practice or policy unless god tells the leaders to make the change.

So why are people so upset? Is it the process that people are using to make their thoughts heard? If not, what is it?

In the end, for me it's the same kind of problem I had with the "Sisterhood of the Sacrament Pants." The problem was not women wearing trousers to Church; the problem was the way they decided to make an issue of it. Sacrament meeting, the most sacred meeting the Church has, is about worshipping the Lord and renewing our covenants; it's not supposed to be a fashion show starring "Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!"

If women did receive the Priesthood, those who are agitating for it now might bother showing up for their ordinations -- and then lapse back into semi-activity (or less) again, once they discovered that it's not especially glamorous or "me" centred. The faithful sisters would sigh, shrug their shoulders and accept the additional responsibility; but I doubt they would be any happier about it.

Regards,

Pahoran

[The Grimace]

If women did receive the Priesthood, those who are agitating for it now might bother showing up for their ordinations -- and then lapse back into semi-activity (or less) again, once they discovered that it's not especially glamorous or "me" centred. The faithful sisters would sigh, shrug their shoulders and accept the additional responsibility; but I doubt they would be any happier about it.

Regards,

Pahoran

Sorry, how do you know that it is semi-active women agitating for ordination?

[Hamba Tuhan]

I worked all day yesterday, only finishing up at 1:00 this morning. I got four hours of sleep before waking up to do the seminary run. Waiting in the car, I did my best to read from the Book of Mormon but only made it a few verses before falling asleep. After seminary, I dropped four boys at school and then headed straight to work. I was there for 10.5 hours, not even stopping for lunch. After work, I picked up a member of our ward council, and we visited two members we'd been assigned to see tonight. One of them, whom we'd failed to reach earlier by phone because, as we discovered, we'd been trying the wrong number, was on his way out, but I arranged to come back tomorrow evening. We then visited the newest member of our ward, baptised just three weekends ago. He's the only speaker of his language at church, and I'm not sure how much of what we said that he understood (thankfully he has the Book of Mormon in his language, hence his conversion!), but we had what felt like a really lovely visit, and he thanked us many times for coming. He agreed to bless the sacrament for the first time at church this Sunday (he did it with me in a hospital the day he was ordained), and I went through the prayer on the water with him so that he could take notes on correct pronunciation. After dropping my companion-for-the-evening home, I headed to the house of one of our Young Men to help him with a school assignment he's working on that's in my area of expertise. I just ate a very late breakfast/lunch/dinner, and I need to be up for seminary again in less than seven hours, but I still need to wait for a load of washing to finish so that I can peg it out and hopefully have some clean whites to put on after showering tomorrow. After work, I'll pick up my home teaching companion to make one of our assigned visits to a member who struggles with alcoholism, and then I'll take him with me to visit the bloke we missed seeting tonight. I'm the only bishopric member in town this weekend, and as first counsellor I'm presiding over the entire ward til our bishop returns from a work trip Saturday of next week. I'm hoping that this time we don't have any suicide attempts or demonic possessions -- both of which have occurred during previous bishop absences -- especially since I have another deadline on Tuesday.

I am absolutely certain that the Lord is mindful of me and the hundreds of thousands of men like me who seek to live up to the privileges of holding the priesthood. If there's a better way for Him to conduct His affairs, He'll do it. In the meantime, I'm too too busy and, to be honest, a bit too tired to get very worked up over hypotheticals.

There are at least twice as many worthy women as men available to take those callings.

I'm assuming you're talking about a local phenomenon? In my mission, we baptised twice as many men as women. I served in one ward where the ward mission leader and every single ward missionary had a non-member wife. The last two branches I've belonged to have had more than twice as many men as women amongst the active, as did the last singles ward I attended. We were celebrating this past weekend because we achieved the best gender-balance we've ever had on a ward youth temple trip: eight YW as opposed to 12 YM.

Edited March 28, 2013 by Hamba Tuhan

[Tacenda]

Wow! Hamba you need to move to Utah! And somebody needs to make sure you don't totally wear out. Hopefully the rest of the week isn't as crazy! Those are a lot of needs for one person to worry about.

[DispensatorMysteriorum]

I voted disapprove/upset, not because I oppose the idea (I don't), but because the timing would be awful. It would look very much like the brethren caved to pressure and would cause some cognitive dissonance for me in that context. If it had been a year ago, or perhaps in a few years, it would be different.

[bluebell]

I voted disapprove/upset because it would be upsetting to me-the timing especially but also because it would be such as huge change from my current beliefs on how the kingdom of God is organized (and to be perfectly honest and weakly human, i would be super annoyed that on top of everything i already am asked to do as a woman, that i would suddenly be responsible for what i've always seen as men's responsibilities as well, without men being asked to take on any of my responsibilities, but like i said before, some of that is my pregnancy talking).

If it happened though, i would do my very best to get confirmation from the spirit and accept it with open arms. It would be a challenge for a while though.

[Storm Rider]

If God revealed in the upcoming conference that women were to have the priesthood would any of you mind or have a problem with it?

My observations suggest that most of the people expressing concern with the current debate around women and the priesthood have an issue with the process that is being used... very few of them actually care if women get the priesthood or not...

Given that the prophets/apostles won't make any substantial changes without a firm belief god has told them to make the change why do you care about the process/protest over this issue? It is not going to make any difference in church practice or policy unless god tells the leaders to make the change.

So why are people so upset? Is it the process that people are using to make their thoughts heard? If not, what is it?

If I truly believe that God is the founder and leader of our Church and that he leads the Church today, why would I be out in front of everyone whining about how I want the Church to change? If I was serious, why wouldn't I close the door and pray unceasingly for what I desire rather than be out on the street, beating my chest about what I want? I am not upset with those that do, but I find their behavior less than becoming and in direct conflict with how things are done properly as disciples of Jesus.

[mercyngrace]

The last time I was pregnant, I left my three boys at home and went in for an ultrasound at 19 weeks. The pictures were very clear and the ultrasound tech asked a familiar question, "Would you like to know the sex of the baby?" Expecting to hear an equally familiar response and knowing it didn't matter one bit to me either way, I said, "Sure."

She said, "You're having a girl."

Suddenly, tears started rolling down my cheeks and I couldn't control them.

The tech, by this time also a friend, laughed and asked if I was excited.

I answered honestly, "I'm not sure. I'm just so taken by surprise."

Should women be extended the priesthood, I think I would react in much the same manner.

Edited March 27, 2013 by mercyngrace

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

If God revealed in the upcoming conference that women were to have the priesthood would any of you mind or have a problem with it?

My observations suggest that most of the people expressing concern with the current debate around women and the priesthood have an issue with the process that is being used... very few of them actually care if women get the priesthood or not...

Given that the prophets/apostles won't make any substantial changes without a firm belief god has told them to make the change why do you care about the process/protest over this issue? It is not going to make any difference in church practice or policy unless god tells the leaders to make the change.

So why are people so upset? Is it the process that people are using to make their thoughts heard? If not, what is it?

Answering your thread name, I have never known anyone who would be angry. It is not the Church it is the way God has ordained it, we should respect this...it has been my experience that others think the Church can do anything it wants. This idea usually comes from the idea that 12 old men are in charge and not our Father-in-heaven.

[CASteinman]

Sorry, how do you know that it is semi-active women agitating for ordination?

some are.. some are not.

[CASteinman]

I worked all day yesterday, only finishing up at 1:00 this morning. I got four hours of sleep before waking up to do the seminary run. Waiting in the car, I did my best to read from the Book of Mormon but only made it a few verses before falling asleep. After seminary, I dropped four boys at school and then headed straight to work. I was there for 10.5 hours, not even stopping for lunch. After work, I picked up a member of our ward council, and we visited two members we'd been assigned to see tonight. One of them, whom we'd failed to reach earlier by phone because, as we discovered, we'd been trying the wrong number, was on his way out, but I arranged to come back tomorrow evening. We then visited the newest member of our ward, baptised just three weekends ago. He's the only speaker of his language at church, and I'm not sure how much of what we said that he understood (thankfully he has the Book of Mormon in his language, hence his conversion!), but we had what felt like a really lovely visit, and he thanked us many times for coming. He agreed to bless the sacrament for the first time at church this Sunday (he did it with me in a hospital the day he was ordained), and I went through the prayer on the water with him so that he could take notes on correct pronunciation. After dropping my companion-for-the-evening home, I headed to the house of one of our Young Men to help him with a school assignment he's working on that's in my area of expertise. I just ate a very late breakfast/lunch/dinner, and I need to be up for seminary again in less than seven hours, but I still need to wait for a load of washing to finish so that I can peg it out and hopefully have some clean whites to put on after showering tomorrow. After work, I'll pick up my home teaching companion to make one of our assigned visits to a member who struggles with alcoholism, and then I'll take him with me to visit the bloke we missed seeting tonight. I'm the only bishopric member in town this weekend, and as first counsellor I'm presiding over the entire ward til our bishop returns from a work trip Saturday of next week. I'm hoping that this time we don't have any suicide attempts or demonic possessions -- both of which have occurred during previous bishop absences, especially since I have another deadline on Tuesday.

God bless you for your service -- but be wise with your health and well-being.

[Saints Alive]

I am neutral on this as well. If it is given by revelation and sustained as doctrine by the membership (who am I kidding, like anyone would oppose) then so be it. I think it would be very interesting to see how such a change is implemented though.

[Tacenda]

I put "neutral", but in my heart don't believe it could ever ever happen. And if it did, then it wouldn't be exactly as it is for men. Plus, if women are being honest, they wouldn't like it hoisted on them like the men have it. It wouldn't or shouldn't be a choice like that. Women, if they really want it, do they know that it is a heavy calling. And it's a calling that doesn't go away after a few short years. Priesthood meetings early in the morning is enough to scare me away. And the responsibility of giving complete strangers or non family blessings is something for me to run away from too. These women that desire the Priesthood probably wouldn't like it the way it is and would probably work to change it as it stands now until it is less than what it is currently.

[Yep]

If God revealed in the upcoming conference that women were to have the priesthood would any of you mind or have a problem with it?

My observations suggest that most of the people expressing concern with the current debate around women and the priesthood have an issue with the process that is being used... very few of them actually care if women get the priesthood or not...

Given that the prophets/apostles won't make any substantial changes without a firm belief god has told them to make the change why do you care about the process/protest over this issue? It is not going to make any difference in church practice or policy unless god tells the leaders to make the change.

So why are people so upset? Is it the process that people are using to make their thoughts heard? If not, what is it?

I voted neutral because if such happened I would have to believe that it was God's will.

However, I don't believe such will ever happen. Men hold the Priesthood, yes, but women are given the privilege of bearing children. I believe that men and women are equals, balanced and complementary. I believe that women holding the Priesthood would unbalance things and make it so the man was not a proper complement to the woman, less. I believe that this topic comes from an improper perspective on the value of men and women's powers in the eternities.

A few quotes:

Priesthood and Church Government 1965, 83

“Men have no greater claim than women upon the blessings that issue from the Priesthood and accompany its possession. …

“The man holds the Priesthood, performs the priestly duties of the Church, but his wife enjoys with him every other privilege derived from the possession of the Priesthood. This is made clear, as an example, in the Temple service of the Church. The ordinances of the Temple are distinctly of Priesthood character, yet women have access to all of them, and the highest blessings of the Temple are conferred only upon a man and his wife jointly”

Priesthood and Church Government, comp. John A. Widtsoe, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1939, p. 92;

“There is indeed no privileged class or sex within the true Church of Christ; and in reality there can be no discrimination between the sexes only as human beings make it or permit it. Men have their work to do and their powers to exercise for the benefit of all the members of the Church regardless of sex or age.

“So with woman: Her special gifts are to be exercised for the benefit and uplift of the race. This equally shared responsibility makes men and women real ‘team-mates’ in that which makes for human progress. Each one is a complement to the other and neither sex alone may function completely in the world’s work”

Leah D. Widtsoe, Priesthood and Womanhood, as quoted in Priesthood and Church Government, comp. John A. Widtsoe, pp. 90–91

“Never in history have women enjoyed the freedom of thought and action accorded the women of this Church. From the day of its restoration women have been accorded their full religious franchise, and in the temples of the restored Gospel a man may not partake of the highest ordinances without his wife by his side. In all life pursuits she is given her entire independence.

“This gives to woman a mighty responsibility which, if she honors and uses, will be increased in power upon her; but if she ignores it or treats it lightly or fails to magnify it, she may lose that which she now possesses and thereby forfeit her birthright. For this great privilege women of this Church should be eternally grateful and willing to use and cherish this precious and priceless relationship. Where much is given, much is expected”

[Lightbearer]

If God revealed in the upcoming conference that women were to have the priesthood would any of you mind or have a problem with it?

If God revealed it through His living Prophet such a thing, yes I would be upset because it would mean that I have been an active member of the Church for over 40 years and have been completely wrong on my understanding of the priesthood of God... From all I have ever studied and heard in the Church such a revelation would be impossible. However your poll is slanted because it is worded in such a way as to condemn anyone who believes that women will never be ordained to the priesthood. If one disagrees you say: "Aha you do not sustain the prophet!" If you agree that it would not bother you then the point is moot and some day (like the priesthood ban) they will be ordained when all of these male chauvinists die out! It makes the assumption that the present practice is wrong or needs changing because some feminist apostates try to use this as a political wedge issue. Not because they care about serving in the priesthood but their pride causes them to resent any apparent "advantage" of a man over a woman! It is an outrageous question and like most such questions it does not really answer anything. It just beats opposition into the idea of submission to their point of view.

I would counter with a better question, what if the First Presidency added The Proclaimation on the Family to the D&C as OD-3? That is a more plausible question... one that is actually related to the OP question...

[Brenda]

Women wanting the priesthood, or women wanting to wear pants or pray in conference, is not the point, nor is it what "upsets" anyone.

This is important -- It's the open dissent that is the problem. It's the gathering of like-minded voices to pressure for change. It's the criticism of church leaders when things aren't the way we want.

We can desire things and we can suggest changes, but we must be willing to submit to God's will in all things.

[thesometimesaint]

I voted neutral. I fully support the Brethren, and believe they are fulfilling the Lords commands. Why would I object or be upset? If I didn't fully believe it. What the heck am I doing in this Church?

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I am agnostic.

[Scott Lloyd]

If God revealed in the upcoming conference that women were to have the priesthood would any of you mind or have a problem with it?

My observations suggest that most of the people expressing concern with the current debate around women and the priesthood have an issue with the process that is being used... very few of them actually care if women get the priesthood or not...

Given that the prophets/apostles won't make any substantial changes without a firm belief god has told them to make the change why do you care about the process/protest over this issue? It is not going to make any difference in church practice or policy unless god tells the leaders to make the change.

So why are people so upset? Is it the process that people are using to make their thoughts heard? If not, what is it?

Um (re: bold portion), I think you answered your own question before posing it.

[Calm]

Given that the prophets/apostles won't make any substantial changes without a firm belief god has told them to make the change why do you care about the process/protest over this issue?

It is not just about policy, but about relationships and the perception of them in my view.

The protest does not just have the potential to affect whether or not the prophets/apostles go to God to seek His Will. They have an effect on public perception, they have an effect on how members treat each other (bad behaviour on both sides as well as good). They have an effect on the people making the protest themselves as it seems to me they focus often more on the bad than the good. The aspect of protesting creates a polarization among the members rather than an unity no matter what the content of the protest is.

While I am somewhat neutral about the protest itself because I see potential for both good and bad coming out of it, I think I would be very positive about it if it was less of a protest and more of an appeal....basically remove the demanding/assumption that it is meant to be this way in the here and now part and replace it with "we desire good things from the Lord and we ask the prophet and apostles to seek the Lord's Will if one of these good things might be the Priesthood". This would not only be the correct way we are taught to seek things from the Lord, but it would present a much more accurate view to the world of how most LDS view their relationship with the prophets/apostles and God...that we look to Him for understanding and blessings rather than believing that we know best what blessings we deserve.

Edited March 27, 2013 by calmoriah