Why Are We Upset That Some Women Want The Priesthood?

[CASteinman]

You have left me with much to think on.

I am sorry. I imagine that is very annoying. But I was not trying to do that. I was only trying to give a worthy response.

[Stone holm]

Interesting results. I don't buy the idea that there would be massive apostasy from the Church if women were given greater Priesthood authority. I do think, however, if it played out in certain ways that it might cause some non-member women to not reject our proselyting out of hand -- like many who think we are just a bunch of John Birchers with a thin veil of religion. I also can think of some specific women that we might be able to bring back into fellowship who left over the gender-stereotyping in the Church. But this is above my pay grade.

[Storm Rider]

Interesting results. I don't buy the idea that there would be massive apostasy from the Church if women were given greater Priesthood authority. I do think, however, if it played out in certain ways that it might cause some non-member women to not reject our proselyting out of hand -- like many who think we are just a bunch of John Birchers with a thin veil of religion. I also can think of some specific women that we might be able to bring back into fellowship who left over the gender-stereotyping in the Church. But this is above my pay grade.

How does a broken heart and a contrite spirit fit into the lives of these individuals. Should the Church of Jesus Christ exist to please the desires of its members? This seems to conflict completely and totally with what the life of discipleship has always been described. Worse, it is the very epitome of apostasy. I will only attend a church that bends to my will and fits within my personal preferences. This recalls the prophesy of 2 Timothy 4:3-4 "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables." These people do not humble themselves before the Lord, but rather demand that the Church be made in their image and after their passions. This occurs consistently throughout the history of humanity. There are always those who are full of pride and demand that either God meet their personal expectations or they walk. The current situation is not unique; there is a very small minority of individuals that seek to remake the Church into their own playground. This is apostasy and always has been.

[thesometimesaint]

How does a broken heart and a contrite spirit fit into the lives of these individuals. Should the Church of Jesus Christ exist to please the desires of its members? This seems to conflict completely and totally with what the life of discipleship has always been described. Worse, it is the very epitome of apostasy. I will only attend a church that bends to my will and fits within my personal preferences. This recalls the prophesy of 2 Timothy 4:3-4 "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables." These people do not humble themselves before the Lord, but rather demand that the Church be made in their image and after their passions. This occurs consistently throughout the history of humanity. There are always those who are full of pride and demand that either God meet their personal expectations or they walk. The current situation is not unique; there is a very small minority of individuals that seek to remake the Church into their own playground. This is apostasy and always has been.

The Church is a voluntary organization. As such we can't force anyone to attend our meetings, let alone become a member. So to a certain extent we must appeal to the desires of the members. Of course that is not the only factor, but without new members the Church would quickly die out.

[Moroni105]

I would vote neutral on it. Whom am I to vote on such. If God thinks that women in the latter-days should have the priesthood, than so be it. It is not up to me to discuss. However I would say, that I hardley doubt it to happen. Most women that love the church, and that understand the truth of the Gospels would not even think about demanding such a thing anyways.

Also to share, is that in times of distress and troubles, if a strong faithful Sister is without her husbands Priesthood in the home, that priesthood does flow through her. She is able to provide those comforts if needed to her distressed fmaily in times of need, if no other priesthood power is available. Remember Brothers and Sisters, it through the faithfulness of those receiving the blessings and those giving them, that allows the powers of Heaven to open. Not to say, that women pocess the same power of the Priesthood, yet they have that faith with in them to tap into their Husbands, fathers childrens etc Priesthood power.

I also do not think it is in the Lord's plan for the women of the Kingdom to have that power, otherwise it would have been mentioned in the Family; Proclamation to the World. The duties between a Man and Women are different and have always been that way since Adams time.

[Stone holm]

I would vote neutral on it. Whom am I to vote on such. If God thinks that women in the latter-days should have the priesthood, than so be it. It is not up to me to discuss. However I would say, that I hardley doubt it to happen. Most women that love the church, and that understand the truth of the Gospels would not even think about demanding such a thing anyways.

Also to share, is that in times of distress and troubles, if a strong faithful Sister is without her husbands Priesthood in the home, that priesthood does flow through her. She is able to provide those comforts if needed to her distressed fmaily in times of need, if no other priesthood power is available. Remember Brothers and Sisters, it through the faithfulness of those receiving the blessings and those giving them, that allows the powers of Heaven to open. Not to say, that women pocess the same power of the Priesthood, yet they have that faith with in them to tap into their Husbands, fathers childrens etc Priesthood power.

I also do not think it is in the Lord's plan for the women of the Kingdom to have that power, otherwise it would have been mentioned in the Family; Proclamation to the World. The duties between a Man and Women are different and have always been that way since Adams time.

Curious as to why it isn't up to you to discuss it? Is that because you feel it is sinful to discuss the possible future direction of the Church and its policies? Do you feel that would make you an ark steadier?

[why me]

This was also a common concern prior to blacks receiving the priesthood... Would you please provide some additional detail as to why this time it would actually happen compared to last time a major change occurred and it did not?

I do believe that many members expected blacks to eventually get the priesthood, especially since they once had the priesthood. But in the case of women, it was never so. This would send such a shock to both men and women members that it would be a disaster. And the entire inner structure of the church would need to change. And the role of the priesthood too. How could a church function with practically every member holding the priesthood? The defining role of both men and women would need to change inside the church too.

Lets look at the simple things: both young men and women would need to serve two year missions. No more sister missionaries...all would be elders.

Relief Society would need to disband since having a separation of the sexes would no longer be necessary.

Visiting teaching would also be disbanded. All would be home teachers.

Young men and young women would be brought together in one organization since all would have the priesthood.

And no longer would lessons be geared to men and women separately. All would learn the same lessons together. And women and girls would be expected to hold the priesthood just like men and boys are. There could not be a 70 percent opt out for women as an example. What to do with all those women who would refuse the priesthood? Put them in a new and reformed relief society for opt out women?

[JAHS]

I voted neutral because I don't think it will ever happen. It would contradict the scriptures, the proclamation on the family, the temple covenants, latter-day revelation up to this date, etc.. I have a few scriptures that I believe apply to the feminists who are pushing for this but still claim to be true and faithful members:

"Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves."John 6:43).

"Do all things without murmurings and disputings

That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;"(Phil 2:14)

In my opinion it is not a very faithful nor respectful way to bring about change nor is it a proper way to "shine as light in the world".

It's just plain murmuring.

[Stone holm]

I voted neutral because I don't think it will ever happen. It would contradict the scriptures, the proclamation on the family, the temple covenants, latter-day revelation up to this date, etc.. I have a few scriptures that I believe apply to the feminists who are pushing for this but still claim to be true and faithful members:

"Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves."John 6:43).

"Do all things without murmurings and disputings

That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;"(Phil 2:14)

In my opinion it is not a very faithful nor respectful way to bring about change nor is it a proper way to "shine as light in the world".

It's just plain murmuring.

I hardly think a straight forward poll constitutes murmuring. We may be the Lord's sheep, but we are not sheeple who gave up our right to have and discuss opinions upon entering the waters of baptism, nor are we Cathoics who ascribe to the doctrine of infallibility.

Edited March 30, 2013 by Stone holm

[CASteinman]

I hardly think a straight forward poll constitutes murmuring. We may be the Lord's sheep, but we are not sheeple who gave up our right to have and discuss opinions upon entering the waters of baptism, nor are we Cathoics who ascribe to the doctrine of infallibility.

I don't think he was talking about the poll. I think he is talking about the women who murmur over not having the Priesthood -- and some of them go right out and charge the brethren with iniquity over it.

Edited March 30, 2013 by CASteinman

[Stone holm]

I don't think he was talking about the poll. I think he is talking about the women who murmur over not having the Priesthood -- and some of them go right out and charge the brethren with iniquity over it.

Probably, but there are a lot of good Sisters who refrain from voicing their opinions for fear of being considered to be murmuring and then some people take their silence as some type of assent to the status quo. No it's better to have open discussion without fear of such attempts to quell free speech. Of course nobody should be libeling anyone.

[CASteinman]

Probably, but there are a lot of good Sisters who refrain from voicing their opinions for fear of being considered to be murmuring and then some people take their silence as some type of assent to the status quo. No it's better to have open discussion without fear of such attempts to quell free speech. Of course nobody should be libeling anyone.

I really don't have much of a sample base to go on. But I don't *think* that women are afraid to speak their minds. I know my wife and daughters aren't. Boy do I know that.

[Avatar4321]

I didnt know I was upset. I am sad that there are those who would put themselves in rebellion to God, but if let myself get upset every time someone did that, id be completely miserable.

[rodheadlee]

I didnt know I was upset. I am sad that there are those who would put themselves in rebellion to God, but if let myself get upset every time someone did that, id be completely miserable.

Ditto.

[rodheadlee]

I didnt know I was upset. I am sad that there are those who would put themselves in rebellion to God, but if let myself get upset every time someone did that, id be completely miserable.

Ditto.

[CASteinman]

The Church is a voluntary organization. As such we can't force anyone to attend our meetings, let alone become a member. So to a certain extent we must appeal to the desires of the members. Of course that is not the only factor, but without new members the Church would quickly die out.

What would kill the Church first would be a failure to require sacrifices -- including our pride.

[Bikeemikey]

I didnt know I was upset. I am sad that there are those who would put themselves in rebellion to God, but if let myself get upset every time someone did that, id be completely miserable.

Expressing interest in a change in the churches gender policy/doctrine regarding priesthood is rebellion?

[escott3564]

I put "neutral", but in my heart don't believe it could ever ever happen. And if it did, then it wouldn't be exactly as it is for men. Plus, if women are being honest, they wouldn't like it hoisted on them like the men have it. It wouldn't or shouldn't be a choice like that. Women, if they really want it, do they know that it is a heavy calling. And it's a calling that doesn't go away after a few short years. Priesthood meetings early in the morning is enough to scare me away. And the responsibility of giving complete strangers or non family blessings is something for me to run away from too. These women that desire the Priesthood probably wouldn't like it the way it is and would probably work to change it as it stands now until it is less than what it is currently.

This is one of the most condescending statements I have read in a long time.

What on earth do you mean that women are unaware of what the Priesthood entails?

Scared of early morning meetings once a week? Give me a break. I'm up at 5 every morning getting my son ready to catch his school bus.

You don't think that women in the Church might also be interested in holding the Priesthood for selfless reasons? What if the desire stems from seeing our husbands work like the brother who posted earlier about his horrendous schedule and wanting to help?

Quit patting the women in your life on the head and assuming that they don't have a clue about service. Most women I know have a much better concept of it than men like yourself obviously do.

Edited March 30, 2013 by escott3564

[bluebell]

This is one of the most condescending statements I have read in a long time.

What on earth do you mean that women are unaware of what the Priesthood entails?

Scared of early morning meetings once a week? Give me a break. I'm up at 5 every morning getting my son ready to catch his school bus.

You don't think that women in the Church might also be interested in holding the Priesthood for selfless reasons? What if the desire stems from seeing our husbands work like the brother who posted earlier about his horrendous schedule and wanting to help?

Quit patting the women in your life on the head and assuming that they don't have a clue about service. Most women I know have a much better concept of it than men like yourself obviously do.

Tacenda is a woman.

[Tacenda]

This is one of the most condescending statements I have read in a long time.

What on earth do you mean that women are unaware of what the Priesthood entails?

Scared of early morning meetings once a week? Give me a break. I'm up at 5 every morning getting my son ready to catch his school bus.

You don't think that women in the Church might also be interested in holding the Priesthood for selfless reasons? What if the desire stems from seeing our husbands work like the brother who posted earlier about his horrendous schedule and wanting to help?

Quit patting the women in your life on the head and assuming that they don't have a clue about service. Most women I know have a much better concept of it than men like yourself obviously do.

Sorry if it came across that I don't think women are fit for the job...oh, they are! Just not myself, and I'm kind of menapausal & anxiety ridden of late, so maybe it's coming through in my remarks.

[thesometimesaint]

What would kill the Church first would be a failure to require sacrifices -- including our pride.

"Pride is like a horse. It will take you any place you want to go, and some places you don't".

Old Man Sabanda.

Edited March 30, 2013 by thesometimesaint

[Stone holm]

I really don't have much of a sample base to go on. But I don't *think* that women are afraid to speak their minds. I know my wife and daughters aren't. Boy do I know that.

Lol, yeah . I have to go with my ultimate earthly authority on this and my sole daughter, the first doesn't have any problem expressing to me that she has zero problem with the Church granting women extended Priesthood authority and that they in many instances would do a better job, but she would never consider expressing that opinion in Church for fear of being accused of not sustaining the leadership which she does wholeheartedly. As for my daughter, who is a physician, our gender stereotyping is one factor in her inactivity.

[Bernard Gui]

Anyone care to comment on the doctrinal issues I raised?

I would have a very hard time reconciling such an action with the

doctrine of the Atonement and its inseparable connection to the

Father/Son priesthood relationship in the Godhead.

Is the calling of Savior reserved for the firstborn son, or was it just a 50/50 chance

that a male was the firstborn?

Is God the Father an ordained priesthood office?

Is Savior a fore-ordained priesthood office?

If mortal priesthood holders were fore-ordained to their callings, why have no women come forth?

[Stone holm]

Anyone care to comment on the doctrinal issues I raised?

I would have a very hard time reconciling such an action with the

doctrine of the Atonement and its inseparable connection to the

Father/Son priesthood relationship in the Godhead.

Is the calling of Savior reserved for the firstborn son, or was it just a 50/50 chance

that a male was the firstborn?

Is God the Father an ordained priesthood office?

Is Savior a fore-ordained priesthood office?

If mortal priesthood holders were fore-ordained to their callings, why have no women come forth?

Do we always know that the First Born is always the Savior in all creations? No we have no idea.

Is God the Father an ordained Priesthood Office? Yes, is Heavenly Mother an ordained Priesthood Office Yes. The point is that this has no major relevancy.

If mortal priesthood holders were fore-ordained to their callings, why have no women come forth? Good question, so none of the black Africans who lived and died before 1978 in America could possibly have been fore-ordained to hold the Priesthood? Interesting, but absolutely impossible to prove -- and is contrary to the idea that we should be ordaining them now in the Temple.

None of these are the slam-dunk arguments that you portray them to be.

[Tacenda]

This is one of the most condescending statements I have read in a long time.

What on earth do you mean that women are unaware of what the Priesthood entails?

Scared of early morning meetings once a week? Give me a break. I'm up at 5 every morning getting my son ready to catch his school bus.

You don't think that women in the Church might also be interested in holding the Priesthood for selfless reasons? What if the desire stems from seeing our husbands work like the brother who posted earlier about his horrendous schedule and wanting to help?

Quit patting the women in your life on the head and assuming that they don't have a clue about service. Most women I know have a much better concept of it than men like yourself obviously do.

Just another reply, after reading my post over again, it does seem condescending, but that's just not me if you only knew. Women in RS are already serving selflessly....I'll never forget the RS President who I worked with as her secretary. She was not your average president, she took service very serious, yes we did tie over 50 quilts in RS Meetings and donate, but she went out and sought organizations, non LDS, that we could help and we did this for nearly 2 years when we helped with a homeless shelter once a week. Doing various things, also heading up Christmas Sub-for- Santa's that the ward helped with and provided Christmas for several families at the shelter. This awesome lady helped with many people in the ward that were ill either mentally, age related or disease related. Even men would call her before the HP group leader, which was really not good, but that's how reliable she was. And she was a confidant to many and kept their secrets and wouldn't discuss alot of the women's issues to her presidency. I'll never forget cleaning a home for a family in our ward who moved out and it wasn't easy. They were hoarders and definitely didn't see the mess underneath. Once it was all moved out of there, this RS Pres. was moving a washer and dryer making sure it was clean underneath, rat feces were everywhere, but she was all about getting the job done right. We of course ran to help and were covering our noses with rags in the process. The RS is a service organization and do see where some women need more authority and that definitely needs to be the case in RS. Why not just start there? And see where it goes. Would giving women the Priesthood change how the RS works or enhance it, dont know, possibly or possibly not. One thing women should have IMO, would be to authorize women to give her children blessings if a male isn't in the home. That maybe should be interchanged. But enough of my murmuring.

Another good podcast about women here...... http://mormonmatters.org/2013/03/21/165-mormon-women-sharing-their-lives/