Bsa Considering Ending Ban On Homosexuals

[Scott Lloyd]

As does the idea that a gay Boy Scout leader will lead his troop into a sexual orientation of any type or use his powers to molest the kids. As I said earlier, a scout leader of any sexual orientation who started going into explicit detail about his sexuality, rather than teaching kids how to tie knots, start fires and pitch tents would be removed pretty right quick.

My sense is that when it happens it is very rarely done openly enough that it could be detected in time to remove the offender before mischief has been done.

[Scott Lloyd]

Well, you watching that fake sport says more about you than those actually performing it.

I wonder how discriminating you were at 9 years old.

[halconero]

My sense is that when it happens it is very rarely done openly enough that it could be detected in time to remove the offender before mischief has been done.

And from most stories that I've heard the people who perpetrate them are 'straight' or 'celibate' uncles/priests/cousins/take-your-pick who are in a heterosexual relationship or in none at all...

[Damien the Leper]

I wonder how discriminating you were at 9 years old.

I don't know. I most often had my nose stuck in a book. I didn't have many friends until after high school.

[cinepro]

I always thought scouting in the church was a tool to make priesthood holders and missionaries, making Eagle was second or unimportant.

It was until the Prophet stood in April 1986 and said:

Young men, take full advantage of the Church programs. Set your goals to attain excellence in the achievement programs of the Church. Earn the Duty to God Award—one of our most significant priesthood awards. Become an Eagle Scout. Do not settle for mediocrity in the great Scouting program of the Church.

-------------------------------------------------

Give me a young man who has kept himself morally clean and has faithfully attended his Church meetings. Give me a young man who has magnified his priesthood and has earned the Duty to God Award and is an Eagle Scout. Give me a young man who is a seminary graduate and has a burning testimony of the Book of Mormon. Give me such a young man, and I will give you a young man who can perform miracles for the Lord in the mission field and throughout his life.

[cinepro]

And then an Apostle stood in Conference in 2010 and said:

President Ezra Taft Benson once said: " Give me a young man who has kept himself morally clean and has faithfully attended his Church meetings. Give me a young man who has magnified his priesthood and has earned the Duty to God Award and is an Eagle Scout.

[Nathair/|\]

One significant downside to disassociating with the BSA and having a Church-based program is the relative cultural importance placed on Eagle Scouts. Being an Eagle Scout is a helpful accolade for a young man for college admittance or employment application - not sure an LDS equivalent would be as helpful, especially outside of the LDS culture.

As of 2003, it was worth an automatic promotion to E2 upon enlistment as well. (While in Basic, you got paid as an E2, but you only had the authority of an E1.)

[omni]

By allowing leaders who are openly gay/ homosexual, it sends the message to the young and very impressionable boys that it is ok to be gay. Not only that issue but it wouldnt be right to have leaders who are openly gay in close contact with young boys who have raging hormones. Its all just wrong, wrong, wrong! The myriad of problems this would have. BSA would have a lot more problems to deal with and lawsuits stacking up against it. Not to mention Gods indignation for allowing such principle to take place.

I don't have a problem with people who have same sex attraction who don't act on those feelings. That is not the issue at hand with BSA's decision. Their decision is about allowing openly gay people who are not morally clean to be a part of their organization. That is wrong.

Where do you stop? What if the leader didn't obey the WoW...is he still morally clean? What if he is in a committed heterosexual relationship, but isn't married and isn't living the law of chastity? Is he still moral...after all, sexual indiscretions are next to murder in gravity.

What are you supposed to do with with the celebate homosexual boy in deacons/teachers/priests? Tell him he's the one boy not invited to come to the activities? Talk about ostracization and a gauranteed disaffection from the church.

[David T]

Just as I knew how intensely interested I was in watching Krusher Kowalski and Ox Anderson battle it out on local television. I never thought I would change in that respect.

So to you, it's fair to completely equate the way you feel about your wife to enjoying a fun show on TV as a kid?

[Nathair/|\]

I honestly don't care what science or religion have to say about my attraction to other men. That is irrelevent. I know myself, I know the reality of my attraction and there is absolutely nothing either science or religion can do to persuade me otherwise. It's really that simple.

I think I kind of understand. I don't want to give up my Asperger's either.

For the record, I fully endorse the law of chastity. As a magician, I suspect it has implications far beyond what we comprehend in this world, things pertaining to managing an entire universe.

[Avatar4321]

Does that mean we are going to need to rewrite the Scout oath and law? It has always seemed to me that we downplay them in favor of badges and patches when the oath and the sum up the essence of being a Scout.

[Wanderer7]

“Vice is a monster of so frightful mien, As to be hated needs but to be seen; Yet seen too oft, familiar with her face, we first endure, then pity, then embrace”

[Hamba Tuhan]

“Vice is a monster of so frightful mien, As to be hated needs but to be seen; Yet seen too oft, familiar with her face, we first endure, then pity, then embrace”

It helps to also have a shrewdly designed and carefully implemented marketing strategy.

[cinepro]

Does that mean we are going to need to rewrite the Scout oath and law? It has always seemed to me that we downplay them in favor of badges and patches when the oath and the sum up the essence of being a Scout.

Gay people have been some of the most trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, brave, clean and reverent people I've ever met.

I've never met a thrifty gay person though, so you may be on to something.

Edited January 29, 2013 by cinepro

[The Nehor]

It helps to also have a shrewdly designed and carefully implemented marketing strategy.

Replace "gay" with "mormon" and the strategy seems benign. I still see homosexual behavior as a sin but I think we have lost this fight. We lost on Prohibition too and we are still around. We'll survive.

Gay people have been some of the most trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, brave, clean and reverent people I've ever met.

I've never met a thrifty gay person though, so you may be on to something.

I met one thrifty one but he failed on some other points. He was too cheap to buy shampoo, deodorant, and soap.

[Mudcat]

NBC News reports that BSA "is actively considering an end to its decades-long policy of banning gay scouts or scout leaders, according to scouting officials and outsiders familiar with internal discussions."

Apparently this is happening now. "The discussion of a potential change in policy is nearing its final stages, according to outside scouting supporters. If approved, the change could be announced as early as next week, after the BSA's national board holds a regularly scheduled meeting."

The LDS church will still be allowed to set its own standards (though church policies have actually been less stringent than BSA's in allowing for gay members to serve in scouts so long as they are celibate): "The Boy Scouts would not, under any circumstances, dictate a position to units, members or parents. Under this proposed policy, the BSA would not require any chartered organization to act in ways inconsistent with that organization’s mission, principles or religious beliefs,” he said.

Also relevant to many threads on this board, the possible change of policy is a reflection of bottom-up discourse: "... a scouting official said, local chapters have been urging a reconsideration [of the BSA policy]. "We're a grassroots organization. This is a response to what's happening at the local level," the official said"

http://usnews.nbcnew...rs-leaders?lite

I think it's the beginning of the end for the BSA in some respects, if all this is going on.

Many churches will drop their affiliation if the BSA adopts a pro gay stance and I think many parents will pull their kids from the programs regardless of what their troops particular position is.

Sad actually.

[Buzzard]

"Replace "gay" with "mormon" and the strategy seems benign. I still see homosexual behavior as a sin but I think we have lost this fight. We lost on Prohibition too and we are still around. We'll survive."

One big difference. No one ever called us anti-booze bigots. The gay agenda among other things aims to ensure that anyone who does not get with the program will be ostracized from polite society.

Edited January 29, 2013 by Buzzard

[Damien the Leper]

"Replace "gay" with "mormon" and the strategy seems benign. I still see homosexual behavior as a sin but I think we have lost this fight. We lost on Prohibition too and we are still around. We'll survive."

One big difference. No one ever called us anti-booze bigots. The gay agenda among other things aims to ensure that anyone who does not get with the program will be ostracized from polite society.

That is NOT my agenda. Be careful with such generalizations. I have no desire to change the LDS church. However, you can bet your last dollar that I'm going to defend my position and dispel remarks that can be seen earlier in this thread.

A woman in one of my classes last semester called the LDS church a religion but only to be politically correct. She claimed that she doesn't often dignify the LDS church as any kind of religion or path of spiritual worship. Me being the playground bully that I can be when it comes to my Mormons, didn't hesitate to correct her obvious bigotry and error.

[Ron Beron]

deleted because I was being snippy.

Edited January 29, 2013 by Ron Beron

[Ron Beron]

Gay people have been some of the most trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, brave, clean and reverent people I've ever met.

I've never met a thrifty gay person though, so you may be on to something.

So, are you saying that you would trust them with your sons, but not your 401K?

[BCSpace]

Being forced into a no win situation. I dont see why BSA doesnt just keep the same standard in place they have always had. Must every organization be swayed to the lack of principle that Sodom and Gomorrah had?

What did the prophet Ezekiel say was the sin of Sodom (Hint: Ezk 16:49)?

According to the LDS Church, it was also homosexuality in vs. 50. Notice the LDS Topical Guide reference to the word "abomination". One is directed immediately to the topic of Homosexuality where one find Ezekiel 16:50 in the list of verses under "see also".

Consider also this additional official doctrine from a current manual:

Sodom and Gomorrah were twin cities that existed somewhere near the Dead Sea, probably at its southern end. They were destroyed because of their great wickedness, principally homosexuality, from which we derive the term sodomy. Both cities and their inhabitants were destroyed by fire from heaven (Genesis 19:24, 25). Their fate, as well as the practices known to have existed there, suggest that perhaps Jude’s reference to “lasciviousness” by “certain men crept in unawares” is intended to connote the practice of homosexuality. This evil practice has been condemned by the prophets of God in all ages. (See Kimball, Miracle of Forgiveness, chapter 6.)

The Life and Teachings of Jesus and His Apostles - Chapter 53: “For There Are Certain Men Crept in Unawares”

Edited January 29, 2013 by BCSpace

[Bernard Gui]

Given the slippery slope that society has been on for not a very long period of time, I think it's only a matter of time before the national BSA starts telling LDS-sponsored units that they have to allow gay volunteers to serve whether they are celibate or not.

I've felt for some time that the Church could design and run its own activity program for boys in a more efficient and cost-effective manner than Scouting as it is currently administered. It would seem now is as good a time as any for the Church to cut ties with BSA and proceed on its own.

I'm a life-long Scouter. Reluctantly I agree.

[Storm Rider]

I am a strong supporter of the Scouting program and always have been. However, I am not comfortable excluding individuals based upon a sexual preference. Frankly, I am not interested in knowing what a person’s sexual preference is. What is important is that those who abuse young people and any individual with such proclivities should be prevented from participating with youth under any circumstances.

Further, I am also not interested in any individual that feels compelled to tell me or anyone else their sexual preference. As I have participated in scouting I have never felt it necessary to talk about my sexual preference with anyone. If someone is compelled to talk about their sexual preference in a constant and consistent manner, that person is not fit for service. That type of person is an advocate for a cause that does not fit within the Scouting program.

I realize that this position is walking a tight line. I also realize that it may lead to an acceptance of individuals with diverse backgrounds, including those with sexual preferences that are in the minority. What I support that we judge others based upon their actions rather than their thoughts.

[bcuzbcuz]

I am a strong supporter of the Scouting program and always have been. However, I am not comfortable excluding individuals based upon a sexual preference. Frankly, I am not interested in knowing what a person’s sexual preference is. What is important is that those who abuse young people and any individual with such proclivities should be prevented from participating with youth under any circumstances.

Further, I am also not interested in any individual that feels compelled to tell me or anyone else their sexual preference. As I have participated in scouting I have never felt it necessary to talk about my sexual preference with anyone. If someone is compelled to talk about their sexual preference in a constant and consistent manner, that person is not fit for service. That type of person is an advocate for a cause that does not fit within the Scouting program.

I realize that this position is walking a tight line. I also realize that it may lead to an acceptance of individuals with diverse backgrounds, including those with sexual preferences that are in the minority. What I support that we judge others based upon their actions rather than their thoughts.

I totally agree with your post. I am not interested in another persons private life except when it infringes upon others rights. I think the policing of those who seek employment in scouting must be as good as possible. I also hold that whenever improper actions are learned about that they should be investigated and disclosed by the proper authorities.

But I am equally uncomfortable with a supposedly heterosexual person who needs to boast about their exploits as I am uncomfortable about someone who needs to declare a sexual preference. The guidelines for proper behavior in scouting are very clear and if they need more clarification, then so be it, but scouting has no right to ascertain a persons sexual proclivity.

[sunstoned]

It was until the Prophet stood in April 1986 and said:

If this is so important (and I am not saying it isn't) I wonder why the church doesn't support the Girl Scouts program. It seems a little one sided to me.