Ethics Of War And Peace In The Book Of Mormon

[sethpayne]

Howdy Friends,

Here is my latest entry to Worlds Without End:

http://www.withoutend.org/book-mormon-stories-ethics-war-peace/

It was fascinating reading through Book of Mormon stories on war and thinking about how the Book of Mormon tells us to think about and even wage war.

Also, I used Grant Hardy's BoM reader's edition and I HIGHLY recommend it. The text really came alive for me with the way he formatted and laid out the text.

Anyway, I would love to hear your thoughts on war in the BoM and especially how it might relate to modern circumstances.

Seth

[Tacenda]

Howdy Friends,

Here is my latest entry to Worlds Without End:

http://www.withoutend.org/book-mormon-stories-ethics-war-peace/

It was fascinating reading through Book of Mormon stories on war and thinking about how the Book of Mormon tells us to think about and even wage war.

Also, I used Grant Hardy's BoM reader's edition and I HIGHLY recommend it. The text really came alive for me with the way he formatted and laid out the text.

Anyway, I would love to hear your thoughts on war in the BoM and especially how it might relate to modern circumstances.

Seth

I'm sorry if I'm a downer here but I despise war in all fashion especially in the BoM.

[thesometimesaint]

Sethpayne:

When the Nephites waged wars as defense the Lord blessed them with success. When they waged wars of aggression they were defeated.

[sethpayne]

I'm sorry if I'm a downer here but I despise war in all fashion especially in the BoM.

Take a look at my post. I think the BoM takes a VERY negative view on war as well.

Sad fact is that war is a part of the human condition and as such, we must be prepared to deal with it. I think the BoM gives us some good direction on how to think about waging war in an ethical manner as part of the pursuit of peace.

[sethpayne]

Sethpayne:

When the Nephites waged wars as defense the Lord blessed them with success. When they waged wars of aggression they were defeated.

Quite true. But the BoM offers a lot more insight on the subject, IMO.

[thesometimesaint]

Libs:

I'm not opposed to all war. But I am very selective on the wars I do fight in. There is only one thing worse than a war. It is a war lost.

[volgadon]

I'm sorry if I'm a downer here but I despise war in all fashion especially in the BoM.

I despise war, too, I've seen what effect it has had on my father, my brother, my relatives and friends, but sometimes there is no alternative.

[thesometimesaint]

Sethpayne:

The BoM is a cautionary tale of going to war for the wrong reasons. Nobody really wins, just some peoples loose more.

[DavidB]

What I gather from the Book of Mormon and War:

Retake what is rightfully yours

Might does not equal right

Terrorists can not be defeated via warfare

Always be prepared

[morgan.deane]

Howdy Friends,

Here is my latest entry to Worlds Without End:

http://www.withouten...hics-war-peace/

It was fascinating reading through Book of Mormon stories on war and thinking about how the Book of Mormon tells us to think about and even wage war.

Also, I used Grant Hardy's BoM reader's edition and I HIGHLY recommend it. The text really came alive for me with the way he formatted and laid out the text.

Anyway, I would love to hear your thoughts on war in the BoM and especially how it might relate to modern circumstances.

Seth

Greg Kofford has a book coming out which includes a discussion of what the BoM says on war: http://www.gregkoffo...ace-in-our-time

Given such clear scriptures as Alma 43:47, I was surprised that I was the only one to justify the use of force using the BoM.

Edited August 31, 2012 by morgan.deane

[Calm]

I despise war, too, I've seen what effect it has had on my father, my brother, my relatives and friends, but sometimes there is no alternative.

What do you mean, after all there is always slavery, torture and death as options.

[sethpayne]

Sethpayne:

The BoM is a cautionary tale of going to war for the wrong reasons. Nobody really wins, just some peoples loose more.

I'm curious about your view on something.

Do you think the Book of Mormon speaks to the issue of pre-emption? When Moroni proactively set out to cut off Amalikiah was this a pre-emptive action or merely a continuation of defensive war.

Seth

[Tacenda]

I feel bad I commented above before I read your rendition of the wars in the BoM. It's a much easier read than the scripture format of course! I remember my mom buying me a book that told the BoM in story form when I was a young preteen. It really never got much use, like it should have.

I wish all the scriptures were easier to read actually. But I think it's much easier to have a class about the scriptures when there are references.

I like the fact that the Nephites forgave the Lamanites in the portion of what you wrote. I'm very enept when it comes to the BoM. I've noticed that we are studying alot of the war parts in GD class right now. And of course the teacher usually always likens it to real life situations. One lady spoke about how handsome Nephi is in the gospel art picture, funny!

Thanks Seth, I'll pay more attention to your blog from now on!

[sethpayne]

I feel bad I commented above before I read your rendition of the wars in the BoM. It's a much easier read than the scripture format of course! I remember my mom buying me a book that told the BoM in story form when I was a young preteen. It really never got much use, like it should have.

I wish all the scriptures were easier to read actually. But I think it's much easier to have a class about the scriptures when there are references.

I like the fact that the Nephites forgave the Lamanites in the portion of what you wrote. I'm very enept when it comes to the BoM. I've noticed that we are studying alot of the war parts in GD class right now. And of course the teacher usually always likens it to real life situations. One lady spoke about how handsome Nephi is in the gospel art picture, funny!

Thanks Seth, I'll pay more attention to your blog from now on!

Tacenda,

BUY THIS BOOK:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Book-Mormon-Readers-Edition/dp/0252027973

It will make the Book of Mormon come alive for you.

Seth

[Calm]

You can get it in paperback now for much cheaper, I believe.

http://www.amazon.com/Book-Mormon-Readers-Grant-Hardy/dp/025207341X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1346450811&sr=1-1

I highly recommend it as well. Much easier to read. My eyes tend to skip around with the columns, this format is much easier to concentrate on and get the sense of.

Edited August 31, 2012 by calmoriah

[sethpayne]

You can get it in paperback now for much cheaper, I believe.

True. I think for about $20

[ANACO]

Sethpayne:

When the Nephites waged wars as defense the Lord blessed them with success. When they waged wars of aggression they were defeated.

That's not entirely true. When the Nephites were wicked while waging wars of defense, they also were not successful. (Helaman 4)

[The Nehor]

When the Nephites waged wars as defense the Lord blessed them with success. When they waged wars of aggression they were defeated.

More imoortant is the message that only the wicked are forced to defend themselves in order to bring them to repentance. When the Nephites fought defensive wars the righteous always said the sins of the people brought this about.

As for modern applicability when the Nephites were attacked by a stateless enemy bent on their destruction their righteous leaders told them to prepare their defenses, gather, and repent. Once the conflict is over they forgive the enemies and preach the gospel to them. In our day we do the exact opposite and go "into the mountains" to hunt them down and destroy them. Not looking good for us.

[thesometimesaint]

ANACO:

The Lord at times will use the wicked to punish the wicked.

[The Nehor]

ANACO:

The Lord at times will use the wicked to punish the wicked.

Yep, this pretty much shows that if you are attacked in a war the people are wicked. Not a pleasant conclusion but it seems to me it is a correct one.

[Sleeper Cell]

More imoortant is the message that only the wicked are forced to defend themselves in order to bring them to repentance. When the Nephites fought defensive wars the righteous always said the sins of the people brought this about.

As for modern applicability when the Nephites were attacked by a stateless enemy bent on their destruction their righteous leaders told them to prepare their defenses, gather, and repent. Once the conflict is over they forgive the enemies and preach the gospel to them. In our day we do the exact opposite and go "into the mountains" to hunt them down and destroy them. Not looking good for us.

I wasn’t aware that the conflict with the stateless enemy that attacked us was over.

[The Nehor]

I wasn’t aware that the conflict with the stateless enemy that attacked us was over.

It's not but we took the offensive and went out to hunt them down. In the Book of Mormon that kind of thing was the beginning of the end even though the Nephites initially won.

[BCSpace]

I don't think one can get a full handle on how the Lord and his Church views war by limiting oneself to the BoM. One has to take all scripture and doctrine ont he subject into account. For example, the doctrine on D&C 98 is clearly warlike:

President David O. McKay taught:

“There are . . . two conditions which may justify a truly Christian man to enter—mind you, I say enter, not begin —a war: (1) An attempt to dominate and to deprive another of his free agency, and (2) Loyalty to his country. Possibly there is a third, viz., Defense of a weak nation that is being unjustly crushed by a strong, ruthless one.

“Paramount among these reasons, of course, is the defense of man’s freedom. An attempt to rob man of his free agency caused dissension even in heaven. . . .

“To deprive an intelligent human being of his free agency is to commit the crime of the ages. . . .

“So fundamental in man’s eternal progress is his inherent right to choose, that the Lord would defend it even at the price of war. Without freedom of thought, freedom of choice, freedom of action within lawful bounds, man cannot progress. . . .

“The greatest responsibility of the state is to guard the lives, and to protect the property and rights of its citizens; and if the state is obligated to protect its citizens from lawlessness within its boundaries, it is equally obligated to protect them from lawless encroachments from without—whether the attacking criminals be individuals or nations.” (In Conference Report, Apr. 1942, pp. 72–73.)

http://institute.lds...c-in-091-98.asp

War against any state that deprives man of his agency is justified by official LDS doctrine. The fact that such deprivation has occured is the beginning of such a war (which actually began in heaven) and one would merely be entering it by attacking that state with the purpose of bringing it's population the opportunity for agency.

I don't think it means we must attack most of the world (for most of the world deprives man his agency) but we are obligatated to do much (because we are given much) in this area when we can (and that is more often than we do now imho).

Edited September 5, 2012 by BCSpace

[sethpayne]

I don't think one can get a full handle on how the Lord and his Church views war by limiting oneself to the BoM. One has to take all scripture and doctrine ont he subject into account. For example, the doctrine on D&C 98 is clearly warlike:

War against any state that deprives man of his agency is justified by official LDS doctrine. The fact that such deprivation has occured is the beginning of such a war (which actually began in heaven) and one would merely be entering it by attacking that state with the purpose of bringing it's population the opportunity for agency.

I don't think it means we must attack most of the world (for most of the world deprives man his agency) but we are obligatated to do much (because we are given much) in this area when we can (and that is more often than we do now imho).

BC,

Can you clarify? Are you suggesting that war is now justified against China, Iran, North Korea, Russia, the United States, Sweden, the UK, Germany, Italy, Cuba, Brazil, and Australia? According to one's politics, each of those nations restricts or attacks individual freedom in one way or another. Attacking these nations is justified? And exactly who is justified in doing so?

Seth

[Sleeper Cell]

It's not but we took the offensive and went out to hunt them down. In the Book of Mormon that kind of thing was the beginning of the end even though the Nephites initially won.

I’m not sure just how strictly applicable the Nephite example is to our country when the key component of their country’s righteous response (preach the gospel to their enemies) is prohibited by our inspired constitution. However, a major part of our military activities in Afghanistan and Iraq consists of “nation building,” humanitarian aid to enemy dominated provinces, and outreach to enemy combatants to encourage them to lay down their arms and return home.

IIRC, a major criticism of our strategy in Afghanistan was that we allowed a lot of our enemies to escape to Pakistan, rather than try to destroy them “once and for all.”