"I Don'T Hang Out With People Like That"

[altersteve]

I had an experience the other day that was a real eye-opener.

There's an individual in my ward who I had been friends with for quite some time until recently. There was a time when my family stopped being active in the church and she stopped talking to me. I have since began going to church regularly, and she moved on to a single's ward, so she didn't know I had started going to church again. Well, the other day I decided to text her and ask her what was going on -- she stopped talking to me and I wanted to know if we were still friends. She responded: "Well, you don't go to church anymore. And I don't hang out with people like that." She went on to say that she refuses to be friends with those who don't believe the same things she does, because, according to her, those people bring her down.

Why do you think some Church members have this attitude? Anyone who is not active in the Church seems to be looked down upon by some other "worthy" members. That's not meant to be a blanket statement, but there are quite a few Latter-day Saints who act like this (at least in my experience). Have you had similar experiences, and what do you think we can do to help open these people's eyes?

Edited June 24, 2012 by altersteve

[blackstrap]

And we wonder why some feel the Church is cliqueish. I suppose you could have texted her back with " I do go to church regularly again,but I guess we won't be hanging out ,because I don't hang out with people like that either"

[Scott Lloyd]

It's lamentable that another Church member would treat you this way. You have my sympathy.

The good news is that you now have the opportunity to take the high road.

There is the famous Edwin Markham poem:

He drew a circle that shut me out —

Heretic, rebel, a thing to flout.

But Love and I had the wit to win:

We drew a circle that took him in.

[Evangeline]

altersteve, I'm really sorry that happened to you. Whoever said that to you was not following the counsel of our church leaders in any way (or the universal "Golden Rule" for that matter). If they're not able and/or willing to see that, I'm not sure if there's much you can do to change that. They're on their own path to understanding just as we all are.

The best way to open their eyes? Be an example and love them and if you're ever up to it, bear your testimony in church on how God loves all His children and wants us to do the same. (Although I realize this person is not in your ward anymore, but who knows, maybe your testimony might have a trickle effect. Just keep it general, though, so as not to make anyone uncomfortable.)

Oh, and make sure you let people know how much you appreciate (can you hear the voice here?) all the people who cared about you and never gave up on you when you were having a hard time.

Edited June 24, 2012 by Evangeline

[Storm Rider]

Some people have problems; they have doubts, personal weaknesses, specific objectives. My father was not a member and he really enjoyed drinking scotch. As a young man I acquired a taste for it and it is one of the things that I wished I could drink. When I get around people who drink scotch, or any hard liquor it can still be tempting for me; it is a personal weakness. There are those who struggle with faith and others that struggle with personal worthiness. In brief, there are all kinds of reasons why an individual chooses not to hang with some people.

What your friend may also have meant, but did not say, is that she really likes to hang with people that inspire her, that bring her closer to the Spirit, and that encourage her to continue the good fight. Sometimes we don't express ourselves well.

Are there people I don't hang with? You better believe it. I don't like some people regardless of their religious affiliation. I have found a love for all people, but I don't like a lot of them. Make sense?

[Freedom]

Ask her who she eats lunch with at work and how she manages to fulfill the mandate to preach the gospel.

[CV75]

Why do you think some Church members have this attitude? Anyone who is not active in the Church seems to be looked down upon by some other "worthy" members. That's not meant to be a blanket statement, but there are quite a few Latter-day Saints who act like this (at least in my experience). Have you had similar experiences, and what do you think we can do to help open these people's eyes?

They often have their own struggles with remaining active and feel vulnerable. It might also be a form of "remeumptomism" whic is harder to crack. Including them socailly in LDS and non-LDS groups in a pro-LDS setting might help.

[Aliwe]

She responded: "Well, you don't go to church anymore. And I don't hang out with people like that." She went on to say that she refuses to be friends with those who don't believe the same things she does, because, according to her, those people bring her down.

A Christian is a person who resembles Jesus Christ. The Pharisees sniffed and commented on the fact that Jesus was often found in the homes of sinners and loose women, eating and drinking with them, and the ascetic fasting of John seemed to be far from his mind. But Jesus said, John came neither eating nor drinking, and they said he had a devil. The Son of Man comes eating and drinking, and they say, 'look a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of Gentiles and sinners, one who dines with whores. Neither fasting nor feasting is acceptable with them, it seems, and they assume all women must be either married or prostitutes.

[Duncan]

eek and yikes alike! sorry to hear that!

[rpn]

I'm sure there are some who think themselves better than others, despite all counsel and scriptures and invitations to follow Christ.

But there is another category of members, larger now than in years past, who have watched members they know and love leave, and take with them spouses and others they associated with. While the way she said it was rude and unthinking, before thinking badly of her, consider she might be in this category --- not wanting to risk her salvation, which she has seen happens with just association.

[Deborah]

I do think sometimes members may be so weak in their own faith that they must be careful whom they associate with. But I think it behooves all of us to strengthen our faith so that we would never feel the need to abandon those who leave but can in fact be a strength and example to them.

[ERayR]

I had an experience the other day that was a real eye-opener.

There's an individual in my ward who I had been friends with for quite some time until recently. There was a time when my family stopped being active in the church and she stopped talking to me. I have since began going to church regularly, and she moved on to a single's ward, so she didn't know I had started going to church again. Well, the other day I decided to text her and ask her what was going on -- she stopped talking to me and I wanted to know if we were still friends. She responded: "Well, you don't go to church anymore. And I don't hang out with people like that." She went on to say that she refuses to be friends with those who don't believe the same things she does, because, according to her, those people bring her down.

Why do you think some Church members have this attitude? Anyone who is not active in the Church seems to be looked down upon by some other "worthy" members. That's not meant to be a blanket statement, but there are quite a few Latter-day Saints who act like this (at least in my experience). Have you had similar experiences, and what do you think we can do to help open these people's eyes?

I don't think is is just church members. Some people carve out a safe area for themselves and do not reach beyond it.

[Flyonthewall]

In the 70s & 80s, there was a mindset being taught to the Young Women - "no mission, no me". While I understood the underlying concept, it led to some pretty bigoted interpretations.

I remember at a dance one time, my older brother, who did not serve a mission but was of missionary age, was dancing with a girl. When the coversation turned to missions and she found out he was not going, she walked off the dance floor in the middle of the song.

The other part of the equation that should have been taught was: He served a mission, why you?

This person that "did not hang out with people like that" is a prime example of the Pharisee's hypocracy that Christ addressed so well.

[thesometimesaint]

There is always a small set that sees offense even when it is not meant. It really is a type of unrighteous dominion, and emotional blackmail. IE; I won't like you unless you do as I say.

[Jersey Girl]

I had an experience the other day that was a real eye-opener.

There's an individual in my ward who I had been friends with for quite some time until recently. There was a time when my family stopped being active in the church and she stopped talking to me. I have since began going to church regularly, and she moved on to a single's ward, so she didn't know I had started going to church again. Well, the other day I decided to text her and ask her what was going on -- she stopped talking to me and I wanted to know if we were still friends. She responded: "Well, you don't go to church anymore. And I don't hang out with people like that." She went on to say that she refuses to be friends with those who don't believe the same things she does, because, according to her, those people bring her down.

Why do you think some Church members have this attitude? Anyone who is not active in the Church seems to be looked down upon by some other "worthy" members. That's not meant to be a blanket statement, but there are quite a few Latter-day Saints who act like this (at least in my experience). Have you had similar experiences, and what do you think we can do to help open these people's eyes?

Who did Jesus hang out with? To whom did He come to influence?

[spartacus]

I have experienced this as well - the cutting off of contact.

Part of the reason is in your original post, the idea of "worthiness".

Everyone here has done a good job specifying the different ways that people, regardless of religion/denomination, will act from pride and lack of love. But you asked about why "quite a few" LDS act this way.

IF there were a statistical preponderance of members in the LDS church or overall LDS movement who had this attitude, when compared to other religious or social groups, then I would have to say that the organizations talk of "being worthy" for this that and the other gives ample opportunity for sinful people to act sinfully. That is, if a major purpose of the organization is to help people become worthy and reward them with further access into the organization (temple, callings, mission, etc.) then instantly a group is carved out as unworthy.

You can then soften it by talking about inspirational people and non-inspirational people, but the problem is still there. You can also talk about like vs. love, which has its point, but in this particular case, the person didn't have the minimally "loving" decency to answer back.

There is no doubt a great sense of community among LDS, however, the language, tasks, interviews, and rewards of "worthiness" will always divide and tempt the prideful to act pridefully. Which is ironic, since to be truly "worthy" is to love all (with at least common decency) and serve all.

"But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased, and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted." - Matt: 23:11 & 12

"Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing." 1 Cor 13:1-3

"Charity suffereth long, and is kind" - verse 4

[DBMormon]

Motes and Beams.....

It is better to keep one's mouth shut and have others think they are a fool then to open ones mouth and remove all doubt..... she is obviously the one who is missing the message

[Damien the Leper]

Despite my possibly misguided and unfounded misgivings and faith crisis issues concerning the church...not one of my LDS friends has stopped hanging out with me nor have they stopped talking to me. I'm sorry to hear of your situation.

My friends kindly and gently encourage me to attend church as a non-member not just in the hopes of a change of heart on my behalf but because they genuinely do care that I have a spiritual and uplifting home.

[CASteinman]

I had an experience the other day that was a real eye-opener.

There's an individual in my ward who I had been friends with for quite some time until recently. There was a time when my family stopped being active in the church and she stopped talking to me. I have since began going to church regularly, and she moved on to a single's ward, so she didn't know I had started going to church again. Well, the other day I decided to text her and ask her what was going on -- she stopped talking to me and I wanted to know if we were still friends. She responded: "Well, you don't go to church anymore. And I don't hang out with people like that." She went on to say that she refuses to be friends with those who don't believe the same things she does, because, according to her, those people bring her down.

Why do you think some Church members have this attitude?

Each member would be different and you would need to ask the specific member what their reasons were. Based upon your story, it would appear she has this attitude to protect herself from unwanted negative feelings.

Anyone who is not active in the Church seems to be looked down upon by some other "worthy" members.

That is your perception, but that is not what she said. If you feel looked down upon, that is a feeling inside you... not necessarily a feeling inside others.

what do you think we can do to help open these people's eyes?

Do their eyes need to be opened? Who says? This girl sounds to me like she was protecting herself from negative feelings. Most people prefer not to have negative feelings. I don't think that avoiding negative feelings is all that bad.

People are different. If she has a weakness of feeling bad around people who do not believe like she does, its ok. We do not have to judge her over that. We can let her be herself until a time comes that she is stronger. Its ok.

[Palerider]

I had an experience the other day that was a real eye-opener.

There's an individual in my ward who I had been friends with for quite some time until recently. There was a time when my family stopped being active in the church and she stopped talking to me. I have since began going to church regularly, and she moved on to a single's ward, so she didn't know I had started going to church again. Well, the other day I decided to text her and ask her what was going on -- she stopped talking to me and I wanted to know if we were still friends. She responded: "Well, you don't go to church anymore. And I don't hang out with people like that." She went on to say that she refuses to be friends with those who don't believe the same things she does, because, according to her, those people bring her down.

Why do you think some Church members have this attitude? Anyone who is not active in the Church seems to be looked down upon by some other "worthy" members. That's not meant to be a blanket statement, but there are quite a few Latter-day Saints who act like this (at least in my experience). Have you had similar experiences, and what do you think we can do to help open these people's eyes?

Even though Paul was speaking of being connected or associated with idol-worshippers the overall thrust of his counsel is still to be cautious when associating with non-believers.

II Cor.: 14-17

14 Be ye not unequally ^ayoked together with unbelievers: for what ^bfellowship hath righteousness with ^cunrighteousness? and what communion hath ^dlight with darkness?

15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

16 And what ^aagreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the ^btemple of the living God; as God hath said, I will ^cdwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

17 Wherefore ^acome out from among them, and be ye ^bseparate, saith the Lord, and touch not the ^cunclean thing; and I will receive you.

Having raised a daughter I am torn by both sides of this dilema.

The counsel does give opportunity for self-righteousness and exclusiveness but on the other hand relationships, especially between the sexes in youth are particularly vulnerable to undue influence.

I think the Savior's particular case of associating with the sinful was somewhat special in that even though He was subject to being tempted His power to resist was formidable. Many youth find that they are quickly in over their heads once they become emotionally involved.

Leading the sinful to Christ is a grown-up game for those who are well founded. Which could also lead one to ask why some supposed grown-ups look down their noses at people who are not in their little clique.....do their kids learn it from them perhaps?

[Libs]

Despite my possibly misguided and unfounded misgivings and faith crisis issues concerning the church...not one of my LDS friends has stopped hanging out with me nor have they stopped talking to me. I'm sorry to hear of your situation.

My friends kindly and gently encourage me to attend church as a non-member not just in the hopes of a change of heart on my behalf but because they genuinely do care that I have a spiritual and uplifting home.

I have had the same experience with my LDS friends. I kind of wondered if a falling away, wouldn't happen, but it never has and I still have several very good friends that are active LDS.

Steve, I am very sorry to hear that happened to you. I don't really know, but I am guessing that your experience is more of an exception than the rule. At least, that has been my experience.

Edited June 25, 2012 by Libs

[BCSpace]

Why do you think some Church members have this attitude?

I think it's a good attitude to have if an inactive attitude brings one down. I don't think it should be communicated though, even when asked for such as your case. It would be better if she could move to a point where she could more easily be in the world but not of the world because the injunction is to be the salt of the earth.

[Alan]

I had an experience the other day that was a real eye-opener.

There's an individual in my ward who I had been friends with for quite some time until recently. There was a time when my family stopped being active in the church and she stopped talking to me. I have since began going to church regularly, and she moved on to a single's ward, so she didn't know I had started going to church again. Well, the other day I decided to text her and ask her what was going on -- she stopped talking to me and I wanted to know if we were still friends. She responded: "Well, you don't go to church anymore. And I don't hang out with people like that." She went on to say that she refuses to be friends with those who don't believe the same things she does, because, according to her, those people bring her down.

Why do you think some Church members have this attitude? Anyone who is not active in the Church seems to be looked down upon by some other "worthy" members. That's not meant to be a blanket statement, but there are quite a few Latter-day Saints who act like this (at least in my experience). Have you had similar experiences, and what do you think we can do to help open these people's eyes?

This was certainly my experience when we were less active. Nobody from the ward ever spoke to us. It was as if we had ceased to exist. No home teachers, no visiting teachers, nothing. It does seem sometimes that our love and concern for our brothers and sisters is conditional on what they do with 3 hours on a sunday morning. Frankly, it's a disgrace.

[LoudmouthMormon]

This is hardly an LDS-only phenomenon. The girl did what she did, because she's still learning about what's important in life, and is afraid of things she doesn't know.

Is it just me, or do these things get a heck of a lot easier to deal with when you're a natural introvert bordering on recluse?

[AddamS]

I'm not LDS, but my wife's family is...

(I'm beginning to think I should have this as my signature because I almost always end up beginning my posts with it)

She has a very large family and I believe they represent a pretty good cross-section of people at different stages of their LDS journey and, more generally, their journey as people.

Among them there are people that took me into the fold in the same way they would if I was a freshly returned missionary (contingent on my treating my wife properly, of course) and some of them that I've gone out of my way to please that will always look at me like being part of the problem keeping my wife away from the church.

In earlier stages of my life I have spent time with assorted junkies, strippers, etc... among them there are people that encouranged me to grow when my habits changed and I pushed for a more positive life and some that saw positive changes as abandonment that eventually led to mocking desertion.

I guess my point is, there are jerks everywhere. You can't assume someone is going to act in a kind, dignified, or even civil manner just because of their associations.

I'd say just do your best to keep the wheat from the chaffe and proceed without giving it a second thought.