Holy Envy?

[ZealouslyStriving]

What are some of the things you admire about other churches/religions?

If you've been here a while you know I envy the smells and bells ceremonialism of, esp. Orthodox Christianity.

I also like the monastic system. (Edit: but maybe that's because I'm widowed and would love nothing more than to not work for "the man" all day and come home to an empty house.)

Edited March 29, 2025 by ZealouslyStriving

[The Nehor]

Satanism for the cool statues.

Catholicism for the really interesting and weird art in some of their buildings.

Dionysians for the ecstatic experiences and wild karaoke nights.

Adamites for the nudism.

Inana-Istar for reasons I do not wish to disclose.

[bluebell]

I have holy envy for the quiet reverence of some Catholic churches and church services.  I like candles and dim and quiet contemplation and Catholic churches (some, not all) seem to do that really well.

I have holy envy for some Jewish traditions as well--just the vastness that comes from existing for thousands of years in intimate spaces.

[CV75]

1 hour ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

What are some of the things you admire about other churches/religions?

If you've been here a while you know I envy the smells and bells ceremonialism of, esp. Orthodox Christianity.

I also like the monastic system. (Edit: but maybe that's because I'm widowed and would love nothing more than to not work for "the man" all day and come home to an empty house.)

That they are doing the best they can with what they've got.

[Calm]

26 minutes ago, CV75 said:

That they are doing the best they can with what they've got.

Just like us.

[Peacefully]

4 hours ago, Calm said:

Just like us.

So true. I tried to think of a better response but could not. 

[CV75]

4 hours ago, Calm said:

Just like us.

That is what I was I thinking.

[Calm]

20 hours ago, CV75 said:

That is what I was I thinking.

I thought you were….but not everyone would hear it like that like I did this time, so I added it on.

Edited March 30, 2025 by Calm

[Tony uk]

As a Roman Catholic, in his mid fifties. I have grown up with the more traditional approach, and the more modern approach. 

Although I would not said envy. I have always had a deep respect, and admiration, for Latter day Saint's. I do not wish to sound patronising when I say this, but the LDS that I have come into contact, and been aware of in the media. As people, are more Christian than some other people that I have come across. 

People commited to their faith, friendly helpful, supportive, understanding, non judgemental of others. And deep understanding of the Bible, and knowledge of faith. These are the reasons that I respect and admire Latter day Saint's.

[Buckeye]

For Evangelicals - I've lived in mostly communities dominated by protestant evangelicals most of my life. I've never felt oppressed or "othered." I love their heartful worship services, in particular music. My neighbor is drummer for his church, which I envy often. 

My best friend in high school went to Wheaton while I went to BYU. I served a two-year mission and learned Spanish. He finished a BA, got married, and then moved to southern Mexico to serve a life-long mission with his wife. Essentially, they've spent their lives learning a native dialect Mixtec dialect into which they're translating the New Testament. They've raised a family there along the way. I envy their devotion. Their mission is miles above anything I did on mine.

Edited March 30, 2025 by Buckeye

[Buckeye]

For Catholics - my wife's mother was raised Catholic so we've been to many masses and have a good sense of the culture. When we'd take our family to visit her grandparents, they'd always throw holy water on our kids (half-jokingly; half-serious).

I love that in the Catholic mass everyone is instructed to greet and befriend their neighbor just before the eucharist is provided. It's always meaningful. I love how the presiding leader walks down the aisle and exits at the end of the mass so he is waiting to shake hands and befriend all the parishioners as they leave too. 

If you have the chance, go to a midnight mass. One of the coolest things is at the start there is a procession that includes the presiding leader. While other clergy hold the incense, cross, etc, he holds the little baby Jesus statute which he holds up for the congregation to see and then carefully places in the crèche, symbolizing the birth of the savior.  In my house growing up our creche was something mainly played with by children. It was good, but not really sacred. For Catholics it's a big deal.

I also love how Catholic congregations (in particular in Europe) will have low-level rivalries with each other over who has what relic or other things. If you go to St. Peter's look for muted marks on the center aisle showing where other prominent cathedrals would stop (and therefore fit inside) St. Peters. It's a subtle reminder (and I think good-natured rubbing), that this is the largest one.

Finally, I love the different orders that have growth within Catholicism over the years. Education, missionary work, service, etc. - all have found their devotees. We think of the reformation as something outside the church. In reality, the Catholic church has continuously reformed from within throughout its entire history. 

EDIT to add: How could I forget Mary? I love the devotion to Mary and focus on the female divine alongside Christ. 

Edited March 30, 2025 by Buckeye

[Buckeye]

For Islam - some of my best friends at BYU were Muslims from Jordan. I honestly wish I'd know more through my life. I love their artwork, how they craft words into art filled with geometry but not images of people. Its unique and special. I love the overlap of values we share. I love how they orient themselves always to Mecca. Prayer rugs are super cool too.

 

[Buckeye]

For Community of Christ - I grew up (in part) in the Midwest and had CoC friends. I love that they stayed and built where they were planted. Love their devotion to Emma and an expansive book of revelations through ongoing common consent. Love that they have involved women in their priesthood orders. Love how they preserved and protected sites sacred to us both when we could not. 

[MustardSeed]

Music.

[Buckeye]

For Atheists - I know you asked specifically about "churches/religions", but most people I love who have left our church have not joined another faith. They've come to the conclusion that there is no God and no afterlife. And yet, somehow, they've stayed good people (or in most cases become even better people) than before. 

There are no buildings, traditions, etc. to admire for Atheists.  For me, there's something deeper. Perhaps you've heard the modern parable of the young girl asked to donate blood? In brief, she has a brother she loves who is in an accident and needs a blood transfusion to save his life. She's the only match. Her parents and the doctor ask her to donate, which is scary for a young child. She readily complies. The brother is saved. The a few hours later in the quiet she asks her mother "when will I die?" In her youthful ignorance, she did not know that blood regenerates and so thought she would lose her life to save her brother's. 

That's how I feel towards my Atheist friends. I believe they are factually wrong - that life does continue after this one. But if I'm correct on that, if we're still together in the next life contemplating what we did in this one, I won't have any desire to say "I told you so." Instead, I'll be in awe (as I am now) of their dedication to doing good when they thought their existence was finite. I'll look on them as I would the young girl in the parable. You see, when I give of my time to serve others, I give a piece of eternity. I'm not really losing anything. But my Atheist friends give something they think they'll never get back. They give in a way - in a depth - that I never can. I envy that. 

Edited March 30, 2025 by Buckeye

[Buckeye]

A final one - Quakers. I love their political devotion to bring about good. Quakers were on the forefront of abolition. Today, they are the ones (not our church) leading the efforts against our government's removal of protections for immigrants in sacred spaces. I won't get further into politics, just say I greatly admire their willingness to lead. I wish we'd join them. 

[InCognitus]

I envy the marquee signs that some churches have out in front displaying messages about this week's sermon.

We should have those for each week's sacrament program:   Sister Jones on Elder Oak's Talk, "Following Christ".  Brother Brown on Patrick Kearon's talk, "Welcome to the Church of Joy"

On second thought that's not such a good idea. We'd need a very large sign to accommodate all three wards meeting in the building.  But having something like that might attract (or detract?) outsiders to (from?) the meeting.

But seriously, what I really envy is anyone from any other *legitimate faith that is devoted to their faith and lives and emulates its principles in their daily life.

*  ETA:  Added "legitimate" to exclude terrorist groups and extremist groups.  

Edited March 30, 2025 by InCognitus

[ZealouslyStriving]

I like the Zion-like community togetherness of the Amish. A barn raised in one day? Awesome!

[Buckeye]

One more to add (on my way out the door to church). How could I forget Judaism? I love the tradition and community. In so many ways they have a devotion to each other similar to (often exceeding) what we have in our faith. When I've moved, I've always found an LDS community ready to embrace me. So too with Jews. 

I love their devotion to the word. Their congregations are literally built around a copy of the Torah. No scroll, no synagogue. I also appreciate that they understand me when I say "I like being a minority." Many of friends wonder why I don't live in Utah. Nothing against the place (I spent 4 years there for college), but I much prefer living somewhere that I'm not in the majority. My Jewish friends here in the states immediately understand that sentiment. 

[Tacenda]

39 minutes ago, Buckeye said:

For Atheists - I know you asked specifically about "churches/religions", but most people I love who have left our church have not joined another faith. They've come to the conclusion that there is no God and no afterlife. And yet, somehow, they've stayed good people (or in most cases become even better people) than before. 

There are no buildings, traditions, etc. to admire for Atheists.  For me, there's something deeper. Perhaps you've heard the modern parable of the young girl asked to donate blood? In brief, she has a brother she loves who is in an accident and needs a blood transfusion to save his life. She's the only match. Her parents and the doctor ask her to donate, which is scary for a young child. She readily complies. The brother is saved. The a few hours later in the quiet she asks her mother "when will I die?" In her youthful ignorance, she did not know that blood regenerates and so thought she would lose her life to save her brother's. 

That's how I feel towards my Atheist friends. I believe they are factually wrong - that life does continue after this one. But if I'm correct on that, if we're still together in the next life contemplating what we did in this one, I won't have any desire to say "I told you so." Instead, I'll be in awe (as I am now) of their dedication to doing good when they thought their existence was finite. I'll look on them as I would the young girl in the parable. You see, when I give of my time to serve others, I give a piece of eternity. I'm not really losing anything. But my Atheist friends give something they think they'll never get back. They give in a way - in a depth - that I never can. I envy that. 

I'm not an Atheist but really appreciate, a lot, this post. Thanks so much!!

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Buckeye said:

A final one - Quakers. I love their political devotion to bring about good. Quakers were on the forefront of abolition. Today, they are the ones (not our church) leading the efforts against our government's removal of protections for immigrants in sacred spaces. I won't get further into politics, just say I greatly admire their willingness to lead. I wish we'd join them. 

Thank you again, I have loved our church's stance on immigration...hopefully it will get on board, especially now, with what the Quakers are doing. Which I had no idea the Quakers were doing.

Edited March 30, 2025 by Tacenda

[Raingirl]

1 hour ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

I like the Zion-like community togetherness of the Amish. A barn raised in one day? Awesome!

Their attitude towards forgiveness. In 2006, young school girls were murdered in their one-room schoolhouse.  The community focused on forgiveness.  They attended the funeral of the gunman (no one else did), and supported his widow and children. 
 

There is a book titled Amish Grace, that explores this attitude in depth. 

[Stargazer]

On 3/29/2025 at 5:01 PM, ZealouslyStriving said:

What are some of the things you admire about other churches/religions?

If you've been here a while you know I envy the smells and bells ceremonialism of, esp. Orthodox Christianity.

I also like the monastic system. (Edit: but maybe that's because I'm widowed and would love nothing more than to not work for "the man" all day and come home to an empty house.)

You need any recommendations?

 

[ZealouslyStriving]

9 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

You need any recommendations?

 

Whatcha got?

[Stargazer]

43 minutes ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

Whatcha got?

A couple of nieces. I am not sure they'd be very happy about me shopping them around, though!