Alternative structures for the ministering program

[Stormin' Mormon]

Henry Ford is credited with having said "If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got."

I was called into my ward's Elder's Quorum presidency last year and my biggest frustration has been how much time we spend as a presidency in balancing and re-balancing ministering assignments.  Every time a new family moves in or an old one moves out, multiple companionships have to be adjusted to accommodate for the change, often times rippling through other ministering assignments.  Further, I feel that because the companionship-and-route structure is the same as the previous home and visiting teaching programs, most members see the ministering program as nothing more than a rebranding with less accountability built into it.  Our presidency spends so much effort on just the administrative backdrop of the program, that we barely have time to advance our other priorities.    

I've come to believe that if ministering is to be higher and holier than home and visiting teaching was, it can't use the same structure as those past programs.  Otherwise, by doing what we've always done, we're just gonna keep getting what we've always gotten.

So, my 2-part question is:

1. How much latitude does the handbook provide in allowing wards or quorums to experiment with the structure of the ministering program and try new ways of implementing it?

2. Do any of you know of any wards or stakes that tried something other than a companionship-and-route structure for ministering?  How'd it turn out?  

I've got some ideas I'd like to propose to the EQ president, but I don't want to float something that would be non-viable (either because of policy or because it's already been tried and found wanting).  

[MustardSeed]

Good thoughts,  thanks. 

[Tacenda]

18 minutes ago, Stormin' Mormon said:

Henry Ford is credited with having said "If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got."

I was called into my ward's Elder's Quorum presidency last year and my biggest frustration has been how much time we spend as a presidency in balancing and re-balancing ministering assignments.  Every time a new family moves in or an old one moves out, multiple companionships have to be adjusted to accommodate for the change, often times rippling through other ministering assignments.  Further, I feel that because the companionship-and-route structure is the same as the previous home and visiting teaching programs, most members see the ministering program as nothing more than a rebranding with less accountability built into it.  Our presidency spends so much effort on just the administrative backdrop of the program, that we barely have time to advance our other priorities.    

I've come to believe that if ministering is to be higher and holier than home and visiting teaching was, it can't use the same structure as those past programs.  Otherwise, by doing what we've always done, we're just gonna keep getting what we've always gotten.

So, my 2-part question is:

1. How much latitude does the handbook provide in allowing wards or quorums to experiment with the structure of the ministering program and try new ways of implementing it?

2. Do any of you know of any wards or stakes that tried something other than a companionship-and-route structure for ministering?  How'd it turn out?  

I've got some ideas I'd like to propose to the EQ president, but I don't want to float something that would be non-viable (either because of policy or because it's already been tried and found wanting).  

I'd love to know what you have up your sleeve.

[Stormin' Mormon]

13 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I'd love to know what you have up your sleeve.

I'll share the idea...eventually.  For now, though, I want to see if the discussion generates any ideas or considerations for me to incorporate into the framework I've been noodling on.  

[bluebell]

As a counselor in my RS presidency, I ditto everything you've said and am intrigued by what you're going to share about how to get around it.

[Stormin' Mormon]

9 minutes ago, bluebell said:

As a counselor in my RS presidency, I ditto everything you've said and am intrigued by what you're going to share about how to get around it.

I'm not intentionally being coy, here.  I'm hoping for a wider discussion of possible options first (if there are such options to be had), before I steer the discussion towards the pros and cons of any one option.   

Edited May 21, 2024 by Stormin' Mormon

[CV75]

57 minutes ago, Stormin' Mormon said:

Henry Ford is credited with having said "If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got."

I was called into my ward's Elder's Quorum presidency last year and my biggest frustration has been how much time we spend as a presidency in balancing and re-balancing ministering assignments.  Every time a new family moves in or an old one moves out, multiple companionships have to be adjusted to accommodate for the change, often times rippling through other ministering assignments.  Further, I feel that because the companionship-and-route structure is the same as the previous home and visiting teaching programs, most members see the ministering program as nothing more than a rebranding with less accountability built into it.  Our presidency spends so much effort on just the administrative backdrop of the program, that we barely have time to advance our other priorities.    

I've come to believe that if ministering is to be higher and holier than home and visiting teaching was, it can't use the same structure as those past programs.  Otherwise, by doing what we've always done, we're just gonna keep getting what we've always gotten.

So, my 2-part question is:

1. How much latitude does the handbook provide in allowing wards or quorums to experiment with the structure of the ministering program and try new ways of implementing it?

2. Do any of you know of any wards or stakes that tried something other than a companionship-and-route structure for ministering?  How'd it turn out?  

I've got some ideas I'd like to propose to the EQ president, but I don't want to float something that would be non-viable (either because of policy or because it's already been tried and found wanting).  

1. I think you can try anything but would be good to discuss with Ward Council.

I doubt the Tools will accommodate much beyond larger "companionships" which look out for / minister to each other and maybe rotate every 2 quarters or so, but that shouldn't prevent anything.

2. No, but the 40 day fast idea comes close if the updates were reported on a communal, daily basis.

[Calm]

I don’t know if this is a difference in the way you are thinking of, but in our ward they are having some families minister each other and in our case it’s our next door neighbours.  It makes it an easy and more natural fit, imo.

[MustardSeed]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

I don’t know if this is a difference in the way you are thinking of, but in our ward they are having some families minister each other and in our case it’s our next door neighbours.  It makes it an easy and more natural fit, imo.

Brilliant.  Makes a world of sense. 
in todays world, unnatural relationships are so awkward.  And if I need help with something, I’m much more likely to turn to a neighbor than call my minister who lives 15 miles away. 

[Duncan]

I am the EQ Pres. in our ward. I agree with everything you say, you change the assignments every 2 weeks and people don't know or do them. If we want the missionaries to do missionary work through "normal and natural" ways we surely can expect it from the members. I'd like to see ministering interviews being, less of 'here are your assignments' and more of who did you talk to the past three months? People gravitate to people who they like or want to talk to and we should foster that, more forcing awkwardness.

[Anonymous Mormon]

3 hours ago, Stormin' Mormon said:

Henry Ford is credited with having said "If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got."

I was called into my ward's Elder's Quorum presidency last year and my biggest frustration has been how much time we spend as a presidency in balancing and re-balancing ministering assignments.  Every time a new family moves in or an old one moves out, multiple companionships have to be adjusted to accommodate for the change, often times rippling through other ministering assignments.  Further, I feel that because the companionship-and-route structure is the same as the previous home and visiting teaching programs, most members see the ministering program as nothing more than a rebranding with less accountability built into it.  Our presidency spends so much effort on just the administrative backdrop of the program, that we barely have time to advance our other priorities.    

I've come to believe that if ministering is to be higher and holier than home and visiting teaching was, it can't use the same structure as those past programs.  Otherwise, by doing what we've always done, we're just gonna keep getting what we've always gotten.

So, my 2-part question is:

1. How much latitude does the handbook provide in allowing wards or quorums to experiment with the structure of the ministering program and try new ways of implementing it?

2. Do any of you know of any wards or stakes that tried something other than a companionship-and-route structure for ministering?  How'd it turn out?  

I've got some ideas I'd like to propose to the EQ president, but I don't want to float something that would be non-viable (either because of policy or because it's already been tried and found wanting).  

I have been in the EQ presidency for a year now in my ward. We solve the problem with re-shuffling companionships by only doing companionship changes 2 - 3 times per year. This means that some people who move in and out don't have immediate changes, but we find that usually people new the in ward get attention through other avenues, so we just don't stress it unless there is an urgent need (and then we make just that one change).

 

The bigger issue I am having with ministering is the interviews. When I heard that the new metric to measure was interviews, I thought this was good. But now that I am doing it, I find it difficult. I am supposed to interview once a quarter (which I thought sounded infrequent, but when I consider it's once every x6 EQ meetings it's pretty soon - especially with something like Christmas, so if I do it before hand then I may have just asked them two months before) . But most (90%+) of the people in my quorum don't actually do anything for ministering. The first quarterly interview everyone was excited and said yes, they would minister. The second quarter interview, less people showed up and still very few had actually done anything. It continued that way and now I feel bad even bringing it up because people aren't doing it and are avoiding me. I feel like I am just guilting them. Part of the problem is people are busy (or in some cases apathetic/lazy). And part is they all feel uncomfortable and don't know what to do since they feel like they shouldn't just go and say, "Can I share a message" since that was home teaching. But people aren't taking the initiative to find a holier and higher way.

This month I have started to try texting and asking companionships about their specific families I am concerned about, hoping that feels less threatening and gets people motivated. We'll see...

So from my view, it's a different name and slightly modified program as home teaching, but still the same results of not much being done and lots of guilt required to get most people to do anything.

If anyone has brilliant suggestions on improving interviews, let me know.

[Calm]

You could cover the newbies by having one companionship of ministers assigned specifically to newbies who come during a 4 or 6 month period.  They could even do a certain set of welcome to the ward routines, including having dinner with the new family at least once if the family is willing (or if there is a ton of them, drop by with a gift basket of dinner items along with a picture of the family of the ministers and their names).  Ask for volunteers who you can rely on to call people they don’t know.  No newbies , they get to do nothing until the next set comes in.  Set up RS the same way so the spouses are working with the same family.

[Calm]

What about taking surveys of your wards on what people would like their ministers to do with them and then as a group commit to doing the most popular thing with their people  or even have each family fill out a sheet and then in the interviews talk with their ministers about committing to do one of those things with that family.  Next interview, if they have move on to something else.

It’s work to set up, but it gives you something quick and easy (probably) to focus on in interviews.

[bluebell]

21 minutes ago, Anonymous Mormon said:

I have been in the EQ presidency for a year now in my ward. We solve the problem with re-shuffling companionships by only doing companionship changes 2 - 3 times per year. This means that some people who move in and out don't have immediate changes, but we find that usually people new the in ward get attention through other avenues, so we just don't stress it unless there is an urgent need (and then we make just that one change).

 

The bigger issue I am having with ministering is the interviews. When I heard that the new metric to measure was interviews, I thought this was good. But now that I am doing it, I find it difficult. I am supposed to interview once a quarter (which I thought sounded infrequent, but when I consider it's once every x6 EQ meetings it's pretty soon - especially with something like Christmas, so if I do it before hand then I may have just asked them two months before) . But most (90%+) of the people in my quorum don't actually do anything for ministering. The first quarterly interview everyone was excited and said yes, they would minister. The second quarter interview, less people showed up and still very few had actually done anything. It continued that way and now I feel bad even bringing it up because people aren't doing it and are avoiding me. I feel like I am just guilting them. Part of the problem is people are busy (or in some cases apathetic/lazy). And part is they all feel uncomfortable and don't know what to do since they feel like they shouldn't just go and say, "Can I share a message" since that was home teaching. But people aren't taking the initiative to find a holier and higher way.

This month I have started to try texting and asking companionships about their specific families I am concerned about, hoping that feels less threatening and gets people motivated. We'll see...

So from my view, it's a different name and slightly modified program as home teaching, but still the same results of not much being done and lots of guilt required to get most people to do anything.

If anyone has brilliant suggestions on improving interviews, let me know.

The interviews can be kind of a pain.  We split up the RS sisters into three groups and then each person in the RS presidency (minus the secretary) takes a group to interview.  We set up in person interviews after church for a couple of weeks but that never covers everyone so then we call/text the rest.  For those that we can't get any other way we "ambush" in the halls so to speak.

Mostly we just ask them how the companionship is going and how their sisters are, if there is anything they think we should know about, and how they are doing.  

We try to do them in the second month of each quarter so that we don't have to do them during Christmas because that season is already too busy.  Some quarters go better than others.

[Calm]

20 minutes ago, bluebell said:

each person in the RS presidency (minus the secretary) takes a group to interview.

I thought you meant you interviewed them as a group, like a ministering council. Which makes me wonder if that would work and then arrange individual interviews at least once a year and more if it looks like it is needed. 

Edited May 21, 2024 by Calm

[blackstrap]

Are we being asked to follow an open ended ' Law of Christ ' ,when we have had such a hard time following a more structured ' Law of Moses ' ?

Personally . I try to follow the second great commandment . I rarely feel the need for a visit from anyone. Hence... 🙂

[bluebell]

21 minutes ago, Calm said:

I thought you meant you interviewed them as a group, like a ministering council. Which makes me wonder if that would work and then arrange individual interviews at least once a year and more if it looks like it is needed. 

According to the handbook the interviews have to be done at least quarterly (you have to actually mark who you've interviewed on Tools each quarter) and can be individual or as a companionship. 

A group counsel could be really interesting and do a lot of good but since individual needs are often discussed during the interviews, as well as how a companionship is functioning and how they are getting along with the sisters they are asked to minister too, I don't know if it would be appropriate.  It would also be hard in a ward the size of mine since some of the sisters participating in the group interview to discuss their ministering efforts would end up being ministered to by some of the other sisters also participating.  

I love the idea of counseling together as an aspect of ministering though.  I wonder if there's a way to make that work.

[MustardSeed]

2 hours ago, Duncan said:

who did you talk to the past three months?

I’m down with this 💯. I minister all the time quietly.  I might do it even more often if I was in charge of it myself and had to report.  But the assigned friendship is so extremely difficult.  I text on the regular to my four and it works but I actually minister to others all the time. 

[blackstrap]

24 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

all the time quietly.

That reminds me. Have you heard of the new game called ' quiet tennis ' . It's the same as regular tennis but without the ...racket .

( sorry ,was triggered by a word )

[mfbukowski]

5 hours ago, Stormin' Mormon said:

1. How much latitude does the handbook provide in allowing wards or quorums to experiment with the structure of the ministering program and try new ways of implementing it?

2. Do any of you know of any wards or stakes that tried something other than a companionship-and-route structure for ministering?  How'd it turn out?  

As far as I know there is completely latitude to do what works in your ward.

Honestly, these suggestions so far sound like you guys all live in Fantasy Land- in MY world one would pick the individual best qualified to establish some kind of rapport with the person to whom the "minister" ministers.

Both are plumbers?  Match.   Both are in the same city?  Match.   They live next door?  Impossible!  Actual companions for the "minister"?   Not possible. Their list might be for 20 people on the records who have never been visited.  Base things on what is known about to the alleged member ?  In many cases- no info is available.   Perhaps they are move-ins from another state etc.  No one in the ward has ever heard of them. 

How do you administer THAT mess?

[bluebell]

33 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

IBut the assigned friendship is so extremely difficult.  

It's just so awkward.  And some people really hate it, the idea of someone being assigned to care and look after them.

[bluebell]

4 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

As far as I know there is completely latitude to do what works in your ward.

Honestly, these suggestions so far sound like you guys all live in Fantasy Land- in MY world one would pick the individual best qualified to establish some kind of rapport with the person to whom the "minister" ministers.

Both are plumbers?  Match.   Both are in the same city?  Match.   They live next door?  Impossible! 

In every RS presidency that I've been a part of, this is how we've tried to do things.  Unfortunately, managing ministering and getting people to actually do it remain just as difficult, even with this approach.

We've even asked people who they are already reaching out to and friends with and then assigned them those people.  That helps but overall it still remains a struggle.

[ZealouslyStriving]

Sacrilege Alert:

Do away with the program as we know it. Faithful established families don't need visiting. Instead "assign" faithful families to new families of like demographics until the new families feel like part of the Ward family. 

Inactive or part member families should only be visited by those who have been carefully selected by a Bishopric/RS/EQ counsel after thoughtful deliberation.

[mfbukowski]

7 minutes ago, bluebell said:

In every RS presidency that I've been a part of, this is how we've tried to do things.  Unfortunately, managing ministering and getting people to actually do it remain just as difficult, even with this approach.

We've even asked people who they are already reaching out to and friends with and then assigned them those people.  That helps but overall it still remains a struggle.

Agree, and THAT is the big hang up when no one knows anything about the others.

So unfortunately it turns into an effort to collect the "do not return" folks from others, and then actually visiting those who will at least have a 5 minute visit on the porch, and might actually come back to the church.  But of course a "Do Not Call" list is a No-No- and should be because you never know.  Life changes people and feelings about church can and do change all the time.

We recently had an opportunity to serve non-member who asked for a blessing for a brain tumor operation, just because she felt there IS a "Higher Authority" in the universe, but who or what that was, she had no idea.

The brother who sealed the anointing felt strongly that she would recover, and said so.

So we shall see how that goes, but at least there is now an open door for her to become a "friend" officially.  (An odd term imo for someone I think who is a potential member, but it beats "Investigator".   I always used to imagine a Sherlock Holmes hat on "investigators") 

She was also a former mayor of a nearby city, so there could be more influence there in that town?   I dunno.

But there is NO plan that always works IMO and knowledge, so the program HAS TO BE flexible for each ward, wherever they may be.

And occasionally we are blessed by successes- they DO happen.  

How patient is the Lord with us?  And does he EVER quit??

[Rain]

1 and 2. I don't know, but if you are thinking of ministering groups (4-8 women/families that all get together) then you might think otherwise. I've heard of several places that have tried that and it seemed to be going well, but when it was found out they were definitely told no.

Overall, I think ministering is the same thing as home/visiting teaching. The only real difference was the required lesson, which, at least in my stake, they are still asking people to really consider doing that. All the other things they talk about like going for a walk, texting, etc. were always encourage - to do what fits your family/sister. 

I still think the problem is not getting people to change their behavior it is helping them understand doctrine.  Not just know doctrine, but truly understand it. 

With ministering what doctrine do they need to understand? 1. Love God 2  Love your neighbor. 

This is how I, as a leader (if I still believed and were one) would help people understand it. My ONE focus would be to do what I can to love each of them and help them feel that. (That would also be my ward mission plan). Elder Scott says that when others feel our love they begin to feel and understand Heavenly Father. So as others feel our love they begin to love back, then that love grows for other people, and love grows in those people. When people feel loved they feel safe and are able to learn things about God and how he works. They begin to choose good things to be like him. 

I have seen amazing things in little spanish churches around me. The love they have for their fellow men pours out of them. The people come back to serve again and again with smiling faces.

So that's my idea. Don't worry about changing the program to work.  Just decide you will love others and do your best to help them feel that.