Alternative structures for the ministering program

[The Nehor]

19 hours ago, Calm said:

I think we have a major problem in our culture (both in church and outside of it) where we often don’t have a problem with serving others, but we highly dislike or even hate being at the other end of the relationship instead of looking on it as a gift to the other you are giving when they have an opportunity to serve you (since serving others is one of the most effective ways to learn to love them as well as so many opportunities for personal growth).  I don’t believe guilting people into serving is wise though as that often backfires.  Somehow we need to learn to see being cared for, being an obligation is not a bad thing…and then hopefully it does not become something we must endure.

A bit of this is good but go too far and you have people serving in ways the served don’t even want or need which doesn’t lead to love.

[The Nehor]

59 minutes ago, Malc said:

One branch I was a member of was a combination of two small towns about 25 miles apart with nobody in between. One night a month was designated for the members of town A to get together and drive to town B for HT/VT visits, and members in town B were supposed to all stay home that night to be visited. And vice versa on another night.

No one thought to just assign everyone to people in their own town?

[Rain]

56 minutes ago, Malc said:

I've found that the constant shuffling of assignments added to the feeling that there was no genuine caring involved - at least in most cases.

Having home teachers assigned when I didn't want them, and at other times having someone show up on the last couple of days of the month so that they could report that they "did their duty" was borderline insulting.

And I say this as someone who did exactly that - in an attempt not to be ashamed of not doing my statistical duty, I completely failed to perform my real duty of loving those assigned to me.

I think this what helped me to connect with it at some point - that I was able to start not caring about the statistical duty.  There were a lot of times I technically didn't visit teach because I didn't give a lesson or some other such thing that didn't make it "count" and I was able to say that no I hadn't done my visit with no concern at all. But I knew that this woman knew I cared and we had a long discussion at a restaurant about what was going on in her life and talked about so many things we both enjoyed, or I had helped her move things from room to room etc.  I didn't have that ability for about the first 10 year to not care, but somewhere it switched over and it made it so much better.

That made it so much easier for me to VT when I didn't have a partner or didn't have a partner that wanted to go.  The partners that did want to go were concerned about that stat which meant that often we were giving lessons at awkward times and sometimes they were inappropriate lessons for the situation.         

56 minutes ago, Malc said:

One branch I was a member of was a combination of two small towns about 25 miles apart with nobody in between. One night a month was designated for the members of town A to get together and drive to town B for HT/VT visits, and members in town B were supposed to all stay home that night to be visited. And vice versa on another night.

 

[Calm]

4 hours ago, The Nehor said:

go too far and you have people serving in ways the served don’t even want or need which doesn’t lead to love.

For me service always includes investing time and effort into finding out what the person needs and wants where one can, otherwise it’s not truly service, but more self gratification imo.

Edited May 31, 2024 by Calm

[Malc]

4 hours ago, The Nehor said:

No one thought to just assign everyone to people in their own town?

I think part of the purpose was to try not to have two sub-branches isolated from each other.

[Rain]

43 minutes ago, Calm said:

For me service always includes investing time and effort into finding out what the person needs and wants where one can, otherwise it’s not truly service, but more self gratification imo.

At one time I considered writing an article and submitting it to the Ensign about ways to serve besides bringing in a meal.  Bringing in a meal is great, but it is the go to and people often don't stop to consider if it is a good thing to do or not.  For example, when I was on bedrest with my babies the RS wanted to bring in meals, but my husband liked cooking the meals because it relieved stress for him, but trying to make sure other people's dishes were cleaned and returned was quite a stress for him.

[Calm]

49 minutes ago, Rain said:

At one time I considered writing an article and submitting it to the Ensign about ways to serve besides bringing in a meal.  Bringing in a meal is great, but it is the go to and people often don't stop to consider if it is a good thing to do or not.  For example, when I was on bedrest with my babies the RS wanted to bring in meals, but my husband liked cooking the meals because it relieved stress for him, but trying to make sure other people's dishes were cleaned and returned was quite a stress for him.

Plus when there are health issues, they may need or want to be picky about food (I avoid sugar and chocolate 😭 as it makes some of my symptoms worse) but if it’s not dangerous and more personal choice, they may feel awkward about being picky.

Edited May 31, 2024 by Calm

[manol]

6 hours ago, The Nehor said:

No one thought to just assign everyone to people in their own town?

Once upon a time I was EQ pres in an oddly-shaped city of a million people that only had the one ward.  We were pretty widely scattered.

I prayed and agonized over home teaching companionships and the members they were assigned to visit, trying to get just the right match-ups.  I thought that was what I was supposed to do. 

My successor took a completely different approach:  Geography.  The companions lived near each other whenever possible, and visited the people nearest them whenever possible.

His approach worked VASTLY BETTER than mine because he was being considerate of the home teachers' time.  And I was not. 

Edited May 31, 2024 by manol

[MustardSeed]

I can really only speak to what works for me- when I get new victims, I contact them first via text.  If no response, I call.  Next resort is a letter. No response means leave me alone in real life, so I listen and respect that as a minister as well.  
 

so far all my people who have replied just want occasional text check ins.  My non active folks have been the most responsive, thus far.  We text randomly updates in our lives.  We are true texting buddies.  The only preaching I do was last Sunday when I told them we’d had a group lesson on food storage and I promised I’d share my TP with them in case of any future shortages - they loved it. 
 

an hour ago I received a text from a 20 year old who shared her joy at just finishing some finals.    I’m down for it. 🥰

I hardly ever report, no one asks. 

[Malc]

2 hours ago, Rain said:

At one time I considered writing an article and submitting it to the Ensign about ways to serve besides bringing in a meal.  Bringing in a meal is great, but it is the go to and people often don't stop to consider if it is a good thing to do or not.  For example, when I was on bedrest with my babies the RS wanted to bring in meals, but my husband liked cooking the meals because it relieved stress for him, but trying to make sure other people's dishes were cleaned and returned was quite a stress for him.

Not to blow my own horn (well, if truth be told, perhaps a little toot or two is OK?), I remember after the birth of a child returning pyrex containers to sisters who didn't recognize them. Not I got them mixed up, more that they were cleaner than they had been for years.

Sisters were fighting over who would get to bring meals so that they could have their containers restored to factory conditions.
(OK, that bit is just made up)

[Tacenda]

5 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

I can really only speak to what works for me- when I get new victims, I contact them first via text.  If no response, I call.  Next resort is a letter. No response means leave me alone in real life, so I listen and respect that as a minister as well.  
 

so far all my people who have replied just want occasional text check ins.  My non active folks have been the most responsive, thus far.  We text randomly updates in our lives.  We are true texting buddies.  The only preaching I do was last Sunday when I told them we’d had a group lesson on food storage and I promised I’d share my TP with them in case of any future shortages - they loved it. 
 

an hour ago I received a text from a 20 year old who shared her joy at just finishing some finals.    I’m down for it. 🥰

I hardly ever report, no one asks. 

Love this, lucky them! ❤️

[bluebell]

5 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

I can really only speak to what works for me- when I get new victims, I contact them first via text.  If no response, I call.  Next resort is a letter. No response means leave me alone in real life, so I listen and respect that as a minister as well.  
 

so far all my people who have replied just want occasional text check ins.  My non active folks have been the most responsive, thus far.  We text randomly updates in our lives.  We are true texting buddies.  The only preaching I do was last Sunday when I told them we’d had a group lesson on food storage and I promised I’d share my TP with them in case of any future shortages - they loved it. 
 

an hour ago I received a text from a 20 year old who shared her joy at just finishing some finals.    I’m down for it. 🥰

I hardly ever report, no one asks. 

That's a great way to do it.  

[Stargazer]

On 5/22/2024 at 1:33 AM, ZealouslyStriving said:

Sacrilege Alert:

Do away with the program as we know it. Faithful established families don't need visiting. Instead "assign" faithful families to new families of like demographics until the new families feel like part of the Ward family. 

Umm, maybe there are other reasons for visiting. My companionship has our stake patriarch's family on our list. Both of them have health challenges and really appreciate any visits. I would say that while faithful established families don't need visiting, visiting should still be done, at least occasionally.

On 5/22/2024 at 1:33 AM, ZealouslyStriving said:

Inactive or part member families should only be visited by those who have been carefully selected by a Bishopric/RS/EQ counsel after thoughtful deliberation.

That's a worthy, thoughtful thought.

[ZealouslyStriving]

1 minute ago, Stargazer said:

I would say that while faithful established families don't need visiting, visiting should still be done, at least occasionally.

Obviously, circumstances would need to be considered. An active elderly couple with children spread higher and yon would be a good candidate for the "to minister to" list.

[Malc]

Before the topic is closed, I want to share a story from my days as a new member in a little branch in Scotland. I think it shows that you can organize ministering as efficiently or as spirit-guided as you like, and still have dubious outcomes.

I was related to one of these sisters - let's call them Sadie & Jean - who had been members for 10+ years.

Sadie reported to her RSP that she had completed one of her VT visits by visiting Jean in her home, and that Jean seemed to be OK, and have no particular needs at that time.

Here is what actually happened:

Sadie arrived at Jean's apartment, and when she was settled, Jean asked her if she would like "a wee cup of tea", which Sadie gratefully accepted. After they had gossiped for a bit about branch members, Sadie pulls two things out of her purse - her VT lesson, and a packet of cigarettes. She offers Jean a "ciggie". They have a prayer together and "light up", after which Sadie reads the lesson to Jean.

Was this a successful VT visit?

[ZealouslyStriving]

43 minutes ago, Malc said:

Was this a successful VT visit?

They visited and read the lesson. 👍

[bluebell]

54 minutes ago, Malc said:

Before the topic is closed, I want to share a story from my days as a new member in a little branch in Scotland. I think it shows that you can organize ministering as efficiently or as spirit-guided as you like, and still have dubious outcomes.

I was related to one of these sisters - let's call them Sadie & Jean - who had been members for 10+ years.

Sadie reported to her RSP that she had completed one of her VT visits by visiting Jean in her home, and that Jean seemed to be OK, and have no particular needs at that time.

Here is what actually happened:

Sadie arrived at Jean's apartment, and when she was settled, Jean asked her if she would like "a wee cup of tea", which Sadie gratefully accepted. After they had gossiped for a bit about branch members, Sadie pulls two things out of her purse - her VT lesson, and a packet of cigarettes. She offers Jean a "ciggie". They have a prayer together and "light up", after which Sadie reads the lesson to Jean.

Was this a successful VT visit?

I would say yes.  Sure, some interesting choices were made, a couple that we against church teachings and baptismal covenants, but we are all sinners.  If that meant we couldn't minister to teach other we'd be in bad shape.

It seems like Sadie was there to support her sister and to show love and I would call that a success.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Malc said:

Before the topic is closed, I want to share a story from my days as a new member in a little branch in Scotland. I think it shows that you can organize ministering as efficiently or as spirit-guided as you like, and still have dubious outcomes.

I was related to one of these sisters - let's call them Sadie & Jean - who had been members for 10+ years.

Sadie reported to her RSP that she had completed one of her VT visits by visiting Jean in her home, and that Jean seemed to be OK, and have no particular needs at that time.

Here is what actually happened:

Sadie arrived at Jean's apartment, and when she was settled, Jean asked her if she would like "a wee cup of tea", which Sadie gratefully accepted. After they had gossiped for a bit about branch members, Sadie pulls two things out of her purse - her VT lesson, and a packet of cigarettes. She offers Jean a "ciggie". They have a prayer together and "light up", after which Sadie reads the lesson to Jean.

Was this a successful VT visit?

They met each other where they were.  It seems real and sincere.  They prayed and listened to the lesson which indicates to me a desire to come closer to God, which could lead to positive changes in the future.  So yes, a successful visit.  Much better than one lecturing the other on the evils of smoking resulting in the other feeling shame or anger and both walking away from the visit unhappy

[MustardSeed]

There are much worse things that a human could do than smoking imo.  We like to pick on this one a lot. 

[Malc]

2 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

There are much worse things that a human could do than smoking imo.  We like to pick on this one a lot. 

I've said many times that I'm glad that my "sins" are not so easily detectable.