Ancient Gold Book Inscribed with Sacred Paleo-Hebrew Writing Discovered In Saudi Arabia

[teddyaware]

An ancient gold book, as well as other similar sacred artifacts, inscribed with Paleo-Hebrew characters and sacred symbols such as the tree of life, the menorah and Jacob’s ladder have recently been discovered in Saudi Arabia. The finds are presently in the process being authenticated. Some of the discovered codices have not been opened and examined as yet because they are sealed shut. The book of gold looks very much like one would expect the Book of Mormon plates to look. This find is not to be confused with the Jordan Codices that made news some 15 years ago. Anyone who wants to learn more about this fascinating cache of possible ancient artifacts can view the two videos I’ve linked below.

 

[Pyreaux]

Arabia is certainly a lock. 

[OGHoosier]

Let's wait until authentication to pop the Martinelli's.

[Zosimus]

It'll take a few years confirm if these are real or not. In the meantime, tours now available FROM $9,199 PER PERSON

[jonah747]

The church still has at least one seer stone if it wants to attempt a translation.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2015/10/joseph-the-seer?lang=eng#p18

[Benjamin McGuire]

Miles Jones has some credibility issues.

It looks fake to me. I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination - but the text appears to share a lot of features with the coin script from the first Jewish revolt (around 70 AD). This was never a script that was actually used for writing texts. You see some similar characters at least as far as the divine name goes in the Dead Sea Scrolls - but this paleo script in the Dead Sea Scrolls was only used to offset the divine name, and reflects a later development of the letters. One thing that also stands out to me is the dots that you can visually see at each of the endpoints of the lines in the characters in the picture we see for the second video. This is a classic coin script look - that you wouldn't see in an inscription, but which shows up in casting of coins (its a completely different process to create the script). You can see some information on that here. You can see the same sort of truncated letters (from what we would expect from an earlier real paleo script) on the bat creek stone.

I am reasonably convinced that it is a hoax. My guess is that it will never actually find its way to a reputable scholar for authentication (and of course, if it were real, it would have been required to be handed over to the government in any case, and we would be hearing about it from an entirely different set of authorities).

[ZealouslyStriving]

9 minutes ago, Benjamin McGuire said:

Miles Jones has some credibility issues.

It looks fake to me. I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination - but the text appears to share a lot of features with the coin script from the first Jewish revolt (around 70 AD). This was never a script that was actually used for writing texts. You see some similar characters at least as far as the divine name goes in the Dead Sea Scrolls - but this paleo script in the Dead Sea Scrolls was only used to offset the divine name, and reflects a later development of the letters. One thing that also stands out to me is the dots that you can visually see at each of the endpoints of the lines in the characters in the picture we see for the second video. This is a classic coin script look - that you wouldn't see in an inscription, but which shows up in casting of coins (its a completely different process to create the script). You can see some information on that here. You can see the same sort of truncated letters (from what we would expect from an earlier real paleo script) on the bat creek stone.

I am reasonably convinced that it is a hoax. My guess is that it will never actually find its way to a reputable scholar for authentication (and of course, if it were real, it would have been required to be handed over to the government in any case, and we would be hearing about it from an entirely different set of authorities).

Oooorrr...

I got nothing.

🤷

[Doctor Steuss]

1 hour ago, Benjamin McGuire said:

Miles Jones has some credibility issues.

It looks fake to me. I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination - but the text appears to share a lot of features with the coin script from the first Jewish revolt (around 70 AD). This was never a script that was actually used for writing texts. You see some similar characters at least as far as the divine name goes in the Dead Sea Scrolls - but this paleo script in the Dead Sea Scrolls was only used to offset the divine name, and reflects a later development of the letters. One thing that also stands out to me is the dots that you can visually see at each of the endpoints of the lines in the characters in the picture we see for the second video. This is a classic coin script look - that you wouldn't see in an inscription, but which shows up in casting of coins (its a completely different process to create the script). You can see some information on that here. You can see the same sort of truncated letters (from what we would expect from an earlier real paleo script) on the bat creek stone.

I am reasonably convinced that it is a hoax. My guess is that it will never actually find its way to a reputable scholar for authentication (and of course, if it were real, it would have been required to be handed over to the government in any case, and we would be hearing about it from an entirely different set of authorities).

They seem remarkably similar to the Jordan Lead Codices.  Absolutely screams forgery.

ETA:  Looking at them some more, and I wouldn't be surprised if they were both created by the exact same grifter.

Edited April 4, 2024 by Doctor Steuss

[Calm]

If you want to watch the part about the gold book, it starts around 15 minutes.

Its a clandestine meeting and the man opens up a bad and pulls out the book that has beaten gold pages.

Not having confidence in the provenance so far.

Edited April 4, 2024 by Calm

[rpn]

2 hours ago, Benjamin McGuire said:

I am reasonably convinced that it is a hoax.

Or an April Fool's joke, given the timing?

[Calm]

23 minutes ago, rpn said:

Or an April Fool's joke, given the timing?

Unfortunately no,

[mfbukowski]

Stylistically the artwork looks like something you could see on any internet site.  Big bold letters/images and art from top to the bottom of the page, as a piece of modern art might be, or like the cover of a magazine. You see that with the image of the palm tree.

Fake imo.

And yes the left side looks like an ancient coins I am familiar with.  Of course the posted photo obscures the page on the right side.

 

Edited April 4, 2024 by mfbukowski

[Saint Bonaventure]

Has all the marks of flim flam and fraud. I'm not meaning to condescend; we Catholics have our share of "relics."  

[CV75]

On 4/4/2024 at 1:09 AM, teddyaware said:

An ancient gold book, as well as other similar sacred artifacts, inscribed with Paleo-Hebrew characters and sacred symbols such as the tree of life, the menorah and Jacob’s ladder have recently been discovered in Saudi Arabia. The finds are presently in the process being authenticated. Some of the discovered codices have not been opened and examined as yet because they are sealed shut. The book of gold looks very much like one would expect the Book of Mormon plates to look. This find is not to be confused with the Jordan Codices that made news some 15 years ago. Anyone who wants to learn more about this fascinating cache of possible ancient artifacts can view the two videos I’ve linked below.

 

Is this a test? I'm surprised you would put this out there. What gives?

ETA: A belated Happy April Fools Day?

Edited April 5, 2024 by CV75

[carbon dioxide]

On 4/4/2024 at 7:28 AM, Benjamin McGuire said:

Miles Jones has some credibility issues.

It looks fake to me. I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination - but the text appears to share a lot of features with the coin script from the first Jewish revolt (around 70 AD). This was never a script that was actually used for writing texts. You see some similar characters at least as far as the divine name goes in the Dead Sea Scrolls - but this paleo script in the Dead Sea Scrolls was only used to offset the divine name, and reflects a later development of the letters. One thing that also stands out to me is the dots that you can visually see at each of the endpoints of the lines in the characters in the picture we see for the second video. This is a classic coin script look - that you wouldn't see in an inscription, but which shows up in casting of coins (its a completely different process to create the script). You can see some information on that here. You can see the same sort of truncated letters (from what we would expect from an earlier real paleo script) on the bat creek stone.

I am reasonably convinced that it is a hoax. My guess is that it will never actually find its way to a reputable scholar for authentication (and of course, if it were real, it would have been required to be handed over to the government in any case, and we would be hearing about it from an entirely different set of authorities).

Maybe it is a hoax but all artifacts should be considered innocent until proven guilty.   What exactly is a reputable scholar?  The ones that automatically declare something as a hoax simply because it goes against the grain.  Plus all forgeries have a purpose.  What was the purpose and who is the target audience?  To convince evangelical protestants of a narrative that is consistent with the Book of Mormon?   If it was to make money, then the best source would not seek out evangelicals but got the LDS church to maybe sell it to.  What is the objective of this forgery?  People don't make forgeries simply out of being bored.

I just have little faith in "reputable" scholars anymore.  The reputable scholars of the Americans have told us a whole bunch of stuff about the ancient Americans yet LIDAR technology has showed us a whole  world the missed.   Entire cities went under their noses and if it was not for LIDAR, these cities would still be unknown to the world forever.   If these scholars were doing the job of actually being curious and digging rather than being in classrooms and writing books, perhaps these cities that LIDAR found would have been discovered decades ago.  

" but the text appears to share a lot of features with the coin script from the first Jewish revolt (around 70 AD). This was never a script that was actually used for writing texts."

Maybe this is right but maybe its wrong.   For example it shares a script from around 70 A.D.  Ok but who says this script was invented then?   Perhaps this script was an older script.  Maybe there was a script used for writing texts.   As I said, maybe this is a forgery and its ok to be suspicious but the story needs to be clearly checked out before saying its a forgery and questions answered.  In terms of a story, this is kind of a fish out of water.

Edited April 5, 2024 by carbon dioxide

[Benjamin McGuire]

48 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

Maybe it is a hoax but all artifacts should be considered innocent until proven guilty.

No, I don't think so.

If they are authentic, then those holding them have broken laws. If it was found in Saudi Arabia, the person who has these plates in their possession has broken a lot of laws. The normal process for this would be to turn the artifact over to the government who would then arrange for the appropriate testing and study.

But, this isn't their first foray into problematic archaeological claims. Years ago, he claimed to have uncovered Hebrew originals of a number of New Testament texts. He has promised his followers that they are being studied. Of course, they haven't been authenticated either. Nor have their contents been released for study. This is a pattern of dishonesty here.

Further, a casual look at the material suggests that it is fraudulent. That is, this isn't something that requires a lot of expertise to look at it and see the problems.

Finally, as we can see the social media training taking this and just running with it, leaving it out there with the idea that it might be genuine - and recognizing that it may be decades before the material is actually submitted for serious authentication suggests that the better response is to take the view that it is in fact a hoax - and hold that view until it is proven otherwise. This sort of attitude feeds the problem. If it is never (un)authenticated they can continue to hold on to it with the possibility that it is real. If the possessor was really interested in having it authenticated, and if their account is accurate, then they should be willing to return the artifact to its rightful owners so that a transparent investigation could occur.

I am not holding my breath.

48 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

Plus all forgeries have a purpose.  What was the purpose and who is the target audience?  To convince evangelical protestants of a narrative that is consistent with the Book of Mormon?   If it was to make money, then the best source would not seek out evangelicals but got the LDS church to maybe sell it to.  What is the objective of this forgery?  People don't make forgeries simply out of being bored.

While Mormons have glommed on to the story, I have no reason to believe that they are the target audience. They will be helpful in giving the story lots of free advertising, and they love their parallelomania, but, I don't see them as targets. The guys website though reminds me a little bit of Rodney Meldrum's material. Look, we can get access to:

Quote

Hebrew Gospels: Dr. Jones has collected multiple Hebrew manuscripts of the Hebrew gospels as well as other New Testament writings. His team of researchers are actively working on translating these manuscripts.

Benai Emunah: The Benai Emunah Institute is a non-profit religious & educational organization. The Institute works with public, private and religious schools, home schoolers, and overseas missions.

Writing of God Teaching Series: Go further with your studies in the new teaching series related to The Writing of God. Offering multiple video lessons, a study journal, a certificate of completion, and more.

Revelation of the Month Club: As our team continues to translate each of the copies of the Hebrew manuscripts of the New Testament, we want you to be able to study these for yourself. With the Revelation of the Month Club, you will get weekly updates of translated chapters of our current manuscript translation, along with a study guide.

Published Books: Dr. Jones has published multiple books including The Writing of God, Sons of Zion, and Messianic Church Arising. Visit our store to pick up your copies.

Jones Geniuses: Dr. Jones has created a curriculum that has proven results in accelerated learning for Math Reading, and Memory.

All that and accelerated learning in math and reading ... for a price of course ... I especially like the "Revelation of the Month Club". What's his purpose? If you can't figure this out, well, you are just the right sort of person he is interested in talking to. I don't expect that he made the forgery. He may even believe it is genuine. But, he almost certainly "found" it. Dan McClellan suggests that it was made by the same person who made the Jordanian lead forgeries - and that his Hebrew has improved a little since he made them. If the presenter didn't make them, he almost certainly paid for them (which isn't a problem in theory if they are fraudulent - but it is a big problem if they are original, since trafficking in stolen artifacts is still a fairly big deal).

48 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

I just have little faith in "reputable" scholars anymore.  The reputable scholars of the Americans have told us a whole bunch of stuff about the ancient Americans yet LIDAR technology has showed us a whole  world the missed.   Entire cities went under their noses and if it was not for LIDAR, these cities would still be unknown to the world forever.   If these scholars were doing the job of actually being curious and digging rather than being in classrooms and writing books, perhaps these cities that LIDAR found would have been discovered decades ago.  

Yeah, this is a common problem - especially for consumers of fake news, conspiracy theories, and people who believe what they see on Youtube, Facebook, and the rest of their social media. But, you aren't making much of a convincing argument. What you are saying here is that it's perfectly okay to accept fakes and forgeries because expert opinions don't really matter anyways. It can be as real as I want it to be. Which, sure, if that works for you.

48 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

Maybe this is right but maybe its wrong.   For example it shares a script from around 70 A.D.  Ok but who says this script was invented then?   Perhaps this script was an older script.  Maybe there was a script used for writing texts.   As I said, maybe this is a forgery and its ok to be suspicious but the story needs to be clearly checked out before saying its a forgery and questions answered.  In terms of a story, this is kind of a fish out of water.

It's like you think that these things exist in an archaeological vacuum, isn't it. The thing is that there is a lot of literature on the problem of forgeries if you know where to look and what to look for. It's really hard to investigate something when you can't get access to it, when it has been ripped from its context without adequate documentation, and when it has to be kept hidden because if it isn't, it is either exposed as a hoax, or it is seized as stolen property ...

Edited April 5, 2024 by Benjamin McGuire

[ZealouslyStriving]

https://youtube.com/shorts/3od4kgvx0YE?si=IO3kw1hn3gTC32au

[MiserereNobis]

6 hours ago, Saint Bonaventure said:

Has all the marks of flim flam and fraud. I'm not meaning to condescend; we Catholics have our share of "relics."  

Wait, what?!? You mean that wasn't an actual thorn from the crown of thorns?

There goes my faith...

[Calm]

2 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

all artifacts should be considered innocent until proven guilty.

Not really.  It is not like artifacts have rights.  How much harm will be done if they are assumed to be “innocent” but verified in case they are not vs how much harm will be done if they are assumed to be forgeries, but verified in case they are not?

Knowledge is delayed some while it is determined they weren’t hoaxes after all if the latter.

However, if people start changing knowledge based on a hoax and then change their behaviour based on that, when something is discovered to be a hoax will that change be able to be fully reset?

I am thinking of how much harm and confusion Hofmann caused with his forgeries where many assumed they were valid and made decisions based on that “new” understanding of their faith.  Or rather lack of it.

Then there is the financial loss by those who donate to those promoting such things, claiming they need help to protect, purchase, verify, etc the alleged artifacts.

Then there is the issue of promoting forgery if the idea is we treat them as real until it’s proven they are not.

It is not like forgeries are all done by law abiding people just having some fun with what amounts to an April Fools’ prank or poverty stricken artisans trying to survive.  Mark Hofmann demonstrates that well.

Edited April 5, 2024 by Calm

[MiserereNobis]

2 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

If these scholars were doing the job of actually being curious and digging rather than being in classrooms and writing books,

[Nofear]

2 minutes ago, Calm said:

Not really.  It is not like artifacts have rights.  How much harm will be done if they are assumed to be “innocent” but verified in case they are not vs how much harm will be done if they are assumed to be forgeries, but verified in case they are not?

Knowledge is delayed some while it is determined they weren’t hoaxes after all if the latter.

However, if people start changing knowledge based on a hoax and then change their behaviour based on that, when something is discovered to be a hoax will that change be able to be fully reset?

I am thinking of how much harm and confusion Hofmann caused with his forgeries where many assumed they were valid and made decisions based on that “new” understanding of their faith.

I agree with Calm. For human justice, innocent until proven guilty. For science and such, "guilty" (not true) until proven "innocent" (true).

[Calm]

12 minutes ago, Nofear said:

For human justice, innocent until proven guilty.

And that is for justice.  In real life we can’t wait until proof before judging someone unsafe/guilty unless we are willing to put ourselves and our loved ones in harm’s way….such as someone who inappropriately associates will children claiming they are more comfortable around children because they are autistic and very socially awkward (this was the excuse accepted by bishops and others which result in a member who should not have been viewed as innocent molesting a number of children in Washington, he certainly should not have been arrested based on suspicions, but he should have been required to be supervise around children and the benefit of the doubt given to the complaints of parents listened to rather first and foremost the adult).

Edited April 5, 2024 by Calm

[russianwolfe]

On 4/4/2024 at 8:43 AM, Zosimus said:

It'll take a few years confirm if these are real or not. In the meantime, tours now available FROM $9,199 PER PERSON

Acutally I think the price is $6,666.

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

Maybe it is a hoax but all artifacts should be considered innocent until proven guilty.   What exactly is a reputable scholar?  The ones that automatically declare something as a hoax simply because it goes against the grain.  Plus all forgeries have a purpose.  What was the purpose and who is the target audience?  To convince evangelical protestants of a narrative that is consistent with the Book of Mormon?   If it was to make money, then the best source would not seek out evangelicals but got the LDS church to maybe sell it to.  What is the objective of this forgery?  People don't make forgeries simply out of being bored.

They make forgeries to make money or get clicks. The latter is obviously working.

3 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

I just have little faith in "reputable" scholars anymore.  The reputable scholars of the Americans have told us a whole bunch of stuff about the ancient Americans yet LIDAR technology has showed us a whole  world the missed.   Entire cities went under their noses and if it was not for LIDAR, these cities would still be unknown to the world forever.   If these scholars were doing the job of actually being curious and digging rather than being in classrooms and writing books, perhaps these cities that LIDAR found would have been discovered decades ago.  

Yeah, archaeologists love sitting around in classrooms teaching bored students instead of doing field work! It is definitely not that they make their money in the classroom and spend it in the field and that liberal arts programs are being shredded.

Whoever told you this is lying to you. Don’t trust them.

3 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

" but the text appears to share a lot of features with the coin script from the first Jewish revolt (around 70 AD). This was never a script that was actually used for writing texts."

Maybe this is right but maybe its wrong.   For example it shares a script from around 70 A.D.  Ok but who says this script was invented then?   Perhaps this script was an older script.  Maybe there was a script used for writing texts.   As I said, maybe this is a forgery and its ok to be suspicious but the story needs to be clearly checked out before saying its a forgery and questions answered.  In terms of a story, this is kind of a fish out of water.

LOL

The people who authenticate (assuming these frauds allow experts to authenticate it) have to treat the analysis in a “make sure we get it right” sense. Everyone else is under no obligation to assume that a bunch of quacks pulled off an illegal and unlikely find.

Real scholars are also much more careful about making outlandish claims before the evidence is in. Even if it is debunked their real goals will likely succeed.

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, MiserereNobis said:

Wait, what?!? You mean that wasn't an actual thorn from the crown of thorns?

There goes my faith...

NAILS IT! 

Applies to all the historicity babble hereabouts!

If you need science to verify religion- that whole presumption is a clear category mistake!!

It's like wandering around a bunch of buildings on a university campus looking for wisdom !

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/category-mistakes/

Quote

Category mistakes are sentences such as ‘The number two is blue’, ‘The theory of relativity is eating breakfast’, or ‘Green ideas sleep furiously’. Such sentences are striking in that they are highly odd or infelicitous, and moreover infelicitous in a distinctive sort of way. For example, they seem to be infelicitous in a different way to merely trivially false sentences such as ‘2+2=52+2=5’ or obviously ungrammatical strings such as ‘The ran this’.

And Gilbert Ryle goes for his daily grave spin. 

Suppose it's "real".

Does that prove BOM theology?

God is embodied because they found an gold plate?

Hmmm. 

 

 

Edited April 5, 2024 by mfbukowski