David Archuleta's new single about he and (some in?) his family leaving the Faith

[Calm]

5 minutes ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

If they've become a son of perdition I believe they are excluded.

Maybe they don’t have to murder someone themselves, but just condone it, in this case Christ…that would make more sense to me.

[Peacefully]

8 hours ago, Teancum said:

Maybe it is you and how are you putting it lately, you and yours or those of your ilk, that need the change of heart.

Yes. This.

[smac97]

8 hours ago, Teancum said:

Maybe it is you and how are you putting it lately, you and yours or those of your ilk, that need the change of heart.

Could you elaborate?

[Peacefully]

7 hours ago, Daniel2 said:

I don't elevate, cling to, or cherish an "identity as a gay man." I spend little-to-no time thinking about actually being gay, and as I've aged, sex itself has lessened in importance, as I imagine it does with most couples as they enter the latter portion of their lives. 

I love and cherish my husband, our four kids, their spouses, our eight grandkids and great-granddaughter.  I cherish and love our lives together. I value having someone who reciprocates love as I do, without having to force or feel as if I'm acting contrary to how I'm automatically inclined to love. I value our mutual support in good times and bad. I value taking care of him and him taking care of me.  I value his sense of humor, his efforts to cook (even when he still hasn't mastered how not to overcook a steak!), and his dedication as a father and grandfather. I love our weekly game nights when all 17 of our family come over for dinner and game play. I love how we share common interests, yet also teach each other to appreciate new things in areas where we differ. I value the time we spend working on our home, as well as working together in our neighborhood to make our community a better place. We both find it impossible to sleep when either of us are separated from the other--there's something comforting about sleeping next to the one you love. I love kissing him whenever we reunite or part ways every day and holding hands wherever we go, while watching TV or in a movie theater, or even in the car whenever we drive, just as my own parents expressed affection.

I imagine these are the types of things that Elder Holland values in his wife and family, as well. Like Elder Holland, I can't imagine heaven being heaven if I weren't with my family. 

Your words of "setting aside an 'identity'" seems wildly unaware of, or at the very least, tone deaf to what Mormonism is actually asking us ito set aside.

How much richer would our wards and stakes be if we welcomed families like yours in full fellowship? I pray for that day. 

Edited March 30, 2024 by Peacefully

[LoudmouthMormon]

6 hours ago, The Nehor said:

You are also sharing the pews with a lot of closeted people struggling and putting on a brave face.

Well, I would think a large population of humanity is "struggling and putting on a brave face".  I sure the heck know that I have been since age 5.   This situation is hardly unique to people living some sort of less-than-bell-curve-norm sexual or gender identity...  

Edited March 30, 2024 by LoudmouthMormon

[LoudmouthMormon]

5 hours ago, Teancum said:

It seem to me that @smac97total world view is dominated by his testimony and personal belief that Mormonism is God's truth to the world. Everything, and I mean everything, it seems that at least for Smac, is to be subordinated to that paradigm. 

[Jumping up and down raising hand]  Ooh!  Ooh!  That's me!  You're talking about me!

5 hours ago, Teancum said:

Make you life fit or suffer less than best in the eternities. 

I don't know what that means.  

From what I can tell, the most dominating aspect of God's truth, would be the two great commandments.  Love God with all my heart, might, mind, strength.  And Love my neighbor as myself.  And upon that hangs literally everything else.  And without those, it really doesn't matter what I do or why, I'm missing the point.   I'm going about living life trying my best to subordinate everything, and I mean everything, to that paradigm.  I'm not particularly worried about any eternities.  I trust in God to deal with me as I should be dealt with.

@Teancum you got a problem with any of that?

Edited March 30, 2024 by LoudmouthMormon

[The Nehor]

10 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Well, I would think a large population of humanity is "struggling and putting on a brave face".   This is hardly unique to people living some sort of less-than-bell-curve-norm sexual or gender identity...  

All suffering is okat because others are suffering at that same level or worse? And I thought I was pessimistic.

[california boy]

3 hours ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

https://youtu.be/7696h0Qeb_s?si=7T7LfiBVHrCAkqWM

So if you leave the Church, you must also leave Christ??

[The Nehor]

33 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Well, I would think a large population of humanity is "struggling and putting on a brave face".  I sure the heck know that I have been since age 5.   This situation is hardly unique to people living some sort of less-than-bell-curve-norm sexual or gender identity...  

Would leaving the church be the first step in ending said struggle? If not, it is not really comparable. If you can make it stop most will take that option.

[Smiley McGee]

delete

Edited March 30, 2024 by Smiley McGee

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

So someone could become a son of perdition and as long as they don’t murder someone, they will still be exalted?

Some of the early apostles taught that if your calling and election were made sure that God would kill you if you were heading for perdition level sin.

[Calm]

12 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Some of the early apostles taught that if your calling and election were made sure that God would kill you if you were heading for perdition level sin.

Nice of God to take care of his chosen people that way while ignoring the rest of humanity headed for hell.

How in the world does that speculation work with agency?

[JustAnAustralian]

9 hours ago, Pyreaux said:

Sounds like a niche market for his song though. I don't think there is much demand in music for ex-mormon messages.

I'm not sure it's going to get much traction for other reasons, in that I just don't think the has a particularly large listenership outside of the US. I never hear about him outside Utah news articles (and related discussion). The only place I ever heard people talking about him here was at church, and it was only ever the rare mention (with a spike around his church Christmas collaboration). Based on the Wikipedia article on his discography, even in the US he rarely charts since the American Idol effect has worn off. 

I expect his super fans will listen. I expect people might listen if it hits the local news. Other than that, I just don't see it being a big thing. But if it's helped him process what ever he needs to, then sales/streams numbers don't really matter.

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

Nice of God to take care of his chosen people that way while ignoring the rest of humanity headed for hell.

How in the world does that speculation work with agency?

You’d have to ask Brigham Young. If I remember correctly he said he went to funerals of people in the church where he thought this was why they died. This was decades ago so my memory could be off.

[The Nehor]

8 hours ago, rpn said:

I think the twin issues of culturally adopting a there is a one, who we are in mortal life is more important than who we are eternally are both part of how this thinking gets foster.  See last 10 minutes particularly.

I watched part of this and one of the names sounded familiar. I realized I read his book.

Oh boy……

[Calm]

39 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

If I remember correctly he said he went to funerals of people in the church where he thought this was why they died.

That is rather hilarious from this distance. I can imagine a family member wanting to smack him for trash talking their loved one that way….unless they agreed with him, lol

[Duncan]

6 hours ago, JustAnAustralian said:

I'm not sure it's going to get much traction for other reasons, in that I just don't think the has a particularly large listenership outside of the US. I never hear about him outside Utah news articles (and related discussion). The only place I ever heard people talking about him here was at church, and it was only ever the rare mention (with a spike around his church Christmas collaboration). Based on the Wikipedia article on his discography, even in the US he rarely charts since the American Idol effect has worn off. 

I expect his super fans will listen. I expect people might listen if it hits the local news. Other than that, I just don't see it being a big thing. But if it's helped him process what ever he needs to, then sales/streams numbers don't really matter.

I almost guarantee you that outside of some members here in Canada, most people don't know who he is. People here know Shania Twain, Avril Lavigne, Drake, e Bieber etc. people like that-but not a runner up, years ago, on a US tv show. 

[Teancum]

10 hours ago, smac97 said:

Could you elaborate?

It is a fairly straightforward comment. I am sure you understand.

[ZealouslyStriving]

6 hours ago, The Nehor said:

You’d have to ask Brigham Young. If I remember correctly he said he went to funerals of people in the church where he thought this was why they died. This was decades ago so my memory could be off.

Quotes from Brigham Young in the Journal of Discourses concerning "Sons of Perdition":

https://scriptures.byu.edu/#:tea95&"sons of perdition":st&1396&1830&2024&j&n&30@0$"sons of perdition"

 

[Teancum]

10 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

[Jumping up and down raising hand]  Ooh!  Ooh!  That's me!  You're talking about me!

Obviously.

10 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

I don't know what that means.  

Make you life fit the paradigm or requirements of Mormonism or you get a lesser kingdom or reward.

 

10 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

From what I can tell, the most dominating aspect of God's truth, would be the two great commandments.  Love God with all my heart, might, mind, strength.  And Love my neighbor as myself. 

You forgot obedience.  Maybe you think the first one covers it.  The second one, well the comments by some believers here lends me to believe some of ya all need to practice that one better.

 

10 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

 

And upon that hangs literally everything else.  And without those, it really doesn't matter what I do or why, I'm missing the point.

Well those two are pretty broad and one can argue how well being a down the line believer in Mormonism fits.

 

10 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

 

\ I'm going about living life trying my best to subordinate everything, and I mean everything, to that paradigm.  I'm not particularly worried about any eternities.  I trust in God to deal with me as I should be dealt with.

Great.  Good for you.  If it makes you happy good.  But disparaging others or somehow hoping they have a "change of heart" to fit what you think it means to apply those two commandments is arrogant.  And it certainly does not seem to be loving for your neighbor as you do yourself.  It also is evidence of how you operate as a believer in a high demand controlling religion. 

 

10 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

@Teancum you got a problem with any of that?

I am a live an let live guy. So more power to you.

[Tacenda]

7 hours ago, JustAnAustralian said:

I'm not sure it's going to get much traction for other reasons, in that I just don't think the has a particularly large listenership outside of the US. I never hear about him outside Utah news articles (and related discussion). The only place I ever heard people talking about him here was at church, and it was only ever the rare mention (with a spike around his church Christmas collaboration). Based on the Wikipedia article on his discography, even in the US he rarely charts since the American Idol effect has worn off. 

I expect his super fans will listen. I expect people might listen if it hits the local news. Other than that, I just don't see it being a big thing. But if it's helped him process what ever he needs to, then sales/streams numbers don't really matter.

He'll probably lose some of his LDS super fans. I bought his CD years ago, at the first of his career. I think he's gotten better through the years. His voice is strong, and I think he'll hopefully be able to sustain his singing career. 

[Teancum]

18 hours ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

The good thing about our theology: We know that you will live in eternity with those you are comfortable being around. David will have plenty of company wherever he ends up.

Nah.  You don't KNOW what you will be doing after you die. Nobody does.  You may believe this, and have faith in it.  But you don't KNOW.

Also I think this is another smug statement the Latter-day Saints seem to make.  

[ZealouslyStriving]

4 minutes ago, Teancum said:

Nah.  You don't KNOW what you will be doing after you die. Nobody does.  You may believe this, and have faith in it.  But you don't KNOW.

Also I think this is another smug statement the Latter-day Saints seem to make.  

Your words seem familiar...

"O ye that are bound down under a foolish and a vain hope, why do ye yoke yourselves with such foolish things? Why do ye look for a Christ? For no man can know of anything which is to come. Behold, these things which ye call prophecies, which ye say are handed down by holy prophets, behold, they are foolish traditions of your fathers." - Korihor

 

[Calm]

19 hours ago, smac97 said:

Set aside sexual attraction/orientation as an "identity."

Smac, as far as I can tell you seem to see it as possible to set aside the sense of sexual identity because it is a social construct. And that is what makes the choice between living with that identity if it conflicts with the Law of Chastity and living with the identity of Saint a fabricated dilemma. Is this a correct assessment of your position?  If not, could you explain how you see the concept of social construct affecting behavior, etc here to explain how you came to your conclusions please.

[Calm]

12 minutes ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

Your words seem familiar...

"O ye that are bound down under a foolish and a vain hope, why do ye yoke yourselves with such foolish things? Why do ye look for a Christ? For no man can know of anything which is to come. Behold, these things which ye call prophecies, which ye say are handed down by holy prophets, behold, they are foolish traditions of your fathers." - Korihor

 

Are you equating Teancum with Korihor?  Serious question.  What is your purpose in this comparison?