David Archuleta's new single about he and (some in?) his family leaving the Faith

[SeekingUnderstanding]

15 minutes ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

- Korihor

 

One thing I love about the story of Korihor is that Alma is unafraid to confront him personally in public and on the record. Modern day prophets, not so much. 

Edited March 30, 2024 by SeekingUnderstanding

[ZealouslyStriving]

10 minutes ago, Calm said:

Are you equating Teancum with Korihor?  Serious question.  What is your purpose in this comparison?

If he uses similar language and arguments why should I fail to point it out?

[Calm]

Just now, ZealouslyStriving said:

If he uses similar language and arguments why should I fail to point it out?

But what is your purpose?  Are you saying Teancum is a modern Korihor or something else?

[ZealouslyStriving]

2 minutes ago, Calm said:

But what is your purpose?  Are you saying Teancum is a modern Korihor or something else?

I'll let others decide if he fits the pattern.

[Daniel2]

Archuleta’s song about his mother reminds me of two songs I heard years ago from a musical called “Out!,” written and performed by The Connecticut Gay Men’s Chorus. The songs were based on choir members own lives and coming out stories and reflected their experiences with friends, family members, first loves, and faiths. One member named Michael co-wrote a song with and about his own mother, MaryJane, a deeply faithful Catholic woman, and her reaction to his coming out after his father passed away.

The autobiographical song is written from MaryJane’s perspective, but actually song by her son, Michael (all the songs were sung by the members of the Gay Chorus). It takes place as if MaryJane, an now older woman wearing an apron, has been baking in her kitchen, and turns to the audience to share with us her story. (note: there is one milder swear word in the song)…

After “MaryJane” finishes singing her song in the musical, a heavenly light fills the room, and another actor portraying Christ himself appears and has the following exchange with “her”:

Both songs still affect me whenever I hear them, as MaryJane never waivers in her love and support for her son nor her faith in “her Jesus,” as she calls Him. I imagine Archuleta’s mother may relate. 

Edited March 30, 2024 by Daniel2

[Teancum]

19 hours ago, smac97 said:

"So let 'em close the gates / Oh, if they don't like the way you're made."

"If Paradise is pressurе, oh we'll go to hell togethеr."

These are mischaracterizations of the doctrines and beliefs of the Church.

How so?  How is it a mischaracterization of the beliefs?  Can a someone who enters a homoexual marriage enter the celestial kingdom?

[Teancum]

35 minutes ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

Your words seem familiar...

"O ye that are bound down under a foolish and a vain hope, why do ye yoke yourselves with such foolish things? Why do ye look for a Christ? For no man can know of anything which is to come. Behold, these things which ye call prophecies, which ye say are handed down by holy prophets, behold, they are foolish traditions of your fathers." - Korihor

 

Thought stopping imagined "scripture"to keep you safe.  And more self righteous smugness.

[Teancum]

19 hours ago, smac97 said:

I appreciate that you are making room for these folks and their experiences.  

Too bad you seem unable to do the same.

[Teancum]

19 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

I've done his temple work, but absent some other-side-of-the-veil mighty change of heart, he's off organizing a poker game in paradise.  Looking for the postmortal version of beer, chortling over some risque thoughts about what girl angels have under their robes.  I loved and love the guy, and have spent a lifetime seeking to emulate his more desirable characteristics. 

He is likely having a grand old.

[Calm]

17 minutes ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

I'll let others decide if he fits the pattern.

He doesn’t. He isn’t calling for signs and I highly doubt he is lying about what he actually believes. 

[Teancum]

19 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

 

The notion that "I'm built in a way that excludes me from heaven" is one that our church rejects strongly, and often preaches against.  Sorry to hear another one is buyin' the lie.

Lie?  What lie?  A lot of people are convinced you are buyin the lie. It seems lately you are working hard to live up to your name here. 

[OGHoosier]

1 minute ago, Calm said:

He doesn’t. He isn’t calling for signs and I highly doubt he is lying about what he actually believes. 

Imo these are not the defining characteristics of Korihor, more the clanging on about how religion is a frenzied mind manipulated by ancient priests for their own gain.

[ZealouslyStriving]

2 minutes ago, Calm said:

He doesn’t. He isn’t calling for signs and I highly doubt he is lying about what he actually believes. 

"I have taught his words; and I taught them because they were pleasing unto the carnal mind; and I taught them, even until I had much success, insomuch that I verily believed that they were true" -Korihor

[SeekingUnderstanding]

22 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

The notion that "I'm built in a way that excludes me from heaven" is one that our church rejects strongly, and often preaches against.  Sorry to hear another one is buyin' the lie.

Respectfully, but to the happily married gay / lesbian couple with children, what exactly does your heaven offer? Divorce? Children given to someone else? And an eternity separated from the one they love? 

Edited March 30, 2024 by SeekingUnderstanding

[Pyreaux]

2 hours ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

"I have taught his words; and I taught them because they were pleasing unto the carnal mind; and I taught them, even until I had much success, insomuch that I verily believed that they were true" -Korihor

Yes, Korihor was lying. I do hope Teancum does his best to say what he believes is true, I have no reason to say he doesn't. He refutes you "knowing" using the fad of Ex-Mormonism echoing "epistemology", the study of how we come to know that something is the case, whether if you say as matter of fact “the Earth is warming” or “church leadership is bigoted”. Whether you really "know" that is often challenged, though an ex-Mormon may undiplomatically straight out refute you "know" anything, like God exists, the church is true, etc. Because we can't 100% "know" a thing, or discarding spiritual experience as a valid way to "know" things, or whether that experience validates everything we merely "believe".

Edited March 30, 2024 by Pyreaux

[ZealouslyStriving]

5 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

Yes, Korihor was lying. I do hope Teancum does his best to say what he believes is true, I have no reason that he doesn't. He's using the fad of Ex-Mormon echoing "epistemology" phrases of how we come to know that something is the case, whether if you say as matter of fact “the Earth is warming” or “church leadership is bigoted”. Whether you really "know" that is often challenged and ex-Mormons straight out refute you "know" anything, like God exists, the church is true, etc.

I believe anyone who has been faithful in the past, when they first begin down the muddy path of apostasy, know, in their hearts that what they are espousing is incorrect- but as they repeat the lie over and over again, they come to believe it is "verily so".

Edited March 30, 2024 by ZealouslyStriving

[pogi]

2 hours ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

If he uses similar language and arguments why should I fail to point it out?

What it means to be a Saint?

Questions to ask.

 

[SeekingUnderstanding]

2 hours ago, OGHoosier said:

Imo these are not the defining characteristics of Korihor, more the clanging on about how religion is a frenzied mind manipulated by ancient priests for their own gain.

 

20 minutes ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

I believe anyone who has been faithful in the past, when they first begin down the muddy path of apostasy, know, in their hearts that what they are espousing is incorrect- but as they repeat the lie over and over again, they come to believe it is "verily so".

In my real life experience ZS represents the view of church members more than OGHoosier. 

[ttribe]

3 hours ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

Your words seem familiar...

"O ye that are bound down under a foolish and a vain hope, why do ye yoke yourselves with such foolish things? Why do ye look for a Christ? For no man can know of anything which is to come. Behold, these things which ye call prophecies, which ye say are handed down by holy prophets, behold, they are foolish traditions of your fathers." - Korihor

 

 

3 hours ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

If he uses similar language and arguments why should I fail to point it out?

 

3 hours ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

I'll let others decide if he fits the pattern.

 

2 hours ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

"I have taught his words; and I taught them because they were pleasing unto the carnal mind; and I taught them, even until I had much success, insomuch that I verily believed that they were true" -Korihor

 

35 minutes ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

I believe anyone who has been faithful in the past, when they first begin down the muddy path of apostasy, know, in their hearts that what they are espousing is incorrect- but as they repeat the lie over and over again, they come to believe it is "verily so".

What a little ray of sunshine you are.

I'm curious, when were you given the official calling to discern and call out the "Korihors" of the world?

[ZealouslyStriving]

5 minutes ago, ttribe said:

 

 

 

 

What a little ray of sunshine you are.

I'm curious, when were you given the official calling to discern and call out the "Korihors" of the world?

🌞

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

I'll let others decide if he fits the pattern.

He doesn’t. Glad we sorted that out. Thanks for letting me decide.

[The Nehor]

56 minutes ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

I believe anyone who has been faithful in the past, when they first begin down the muddy path of apostasy, know, in their hearts that what they are espousing is incorrect- but as they repeat the lie over and over again, they come to believe it is "verily so".

LOL

No.

[OGHoosier]

> Member of the Church espouses opinion

> Critic says "in my experience most members of the Church don't think like this"

> Rinse and repeat

Was anything actually accomplished here beyond the production of hot air?

Edited March 30, 2024 by OGHoosier

[Teancum]

22 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Even false things.

True that.

[Teancum]

22 hours ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

Many have been very clear that if the Church would just buckle to pressure and rescind chastity policies they would have much less of a problem with the Church. 

Your law of chastity is a man made constraint the religions and other power hungry movements impose on their adherents.  Controlling human sexuality is a powerful tool.  It is as man made as everything else is about religion.