LDS School Board Member Bullies Teenage Girl

[LoudmouthMormon]

On 2/9/2024 at 5:22 PM, mapman said:

On 2/9/2024 at 4:26 PM, LoudmouthMormon said:

In order to form any sort of opinion on the matter, I'd need more information about the teen girl, and I'd need to see Cline's post.  

This is disgusting. No one should have a right to knowing about the details of another person's body, full stop. Especially a minor! Cline's comments on their face are gross regardless of the facts.

@mapman gives an excellent example of outrage peddling, and sacrificing public debate at the altar of ignorance and fear.   In this world, the facts don't matter.  You're either outraged at a story delivered by anonymous people, or you're wrong.  

In mapman's worldview, it doesn't matter what agenda is being peddled, it involves a minor, so if you go against the narrative, you're disgusting.

Phooey, mapman.  Phooey.  I reserve the right to withhold judgment until I know more facts.  This sort of gut-reflex mob-forming is pretty harmless when done online with the written word, but it doesn't lead anywhere good.  I will resist the mob, no matter which mob, no matter what their agenda, for as long as I have the strength to do so.  Shame on you for giving away your agency, and shame on the 3 people who liked your post for doing the same thing. 

On 2/9/2024 at 5:37 PM, The Nehor said:

Alleged adult takes a pic off school website talking about a basketball game with several of the girls on the team shown in this pic.

Alleged adult posts it online with the caption:

Quote

[constitutionally Protected Speech]

Girls’ sports…

One of the girls in the image is clearly being targeted and it is insinuated that she is transgender.

If you need more information then that you are doing it wrong.

All I need in order to form conclusions are allegations?  You're literally using the word "alleged", which literally means "Represented as existing or as being as described but not so proved; supposed".  And then you're saying whoever doesn't just unthinkingly swallow allegations, without thinking, without searching for more information, is doing it wrong. 

I mean, I've come to expect such behavior from you, @The Nehor.  But holy crap, watching it spread to mapman and his post-likers is disconcerting.

Facts matter, people.  Avoiding a rush to judgment until you know what the heck you're talking about, is important. 

If you're gonna mob up and attack, please keep it online.  Again, it doesn't work well when it translates into physical action against real humans in real life. 

[SeekingUnderstanding]

29 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

All I need in order to form conclusions are allegations?  You're literally using the word "alleged"

lol. Cline is “allegedly” an adult. 

[Rain]

2 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

I don’t disagree with anything you said. But here is my issue. If you strongly dislike someone just because they come from Afghanistan, or to the thread because they are trans, don’t pretend to love them. A strong dislike and love cannot coexist. 

Like calm I think you can do both and like you said they do contradict each other.

I also think there are probably a lot of people who think they are doing both, but really are not. That they are just justifying their dislike, but I can't point out who is doing that, because I don't know their hearts. 

Edited February 11 by Rain

[smac97]

2 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

I don’t disagree with anything you said. But here is my issue. If you strongly dislike someone just because they come from Afghanistan, or to the thread because they are trans, don’t pretend to love them. A strong dislike and love cannot coexist. 

Do you like any Latter-day Saints?

Do you simultaneously dislike that which designates them as Latter-day Saints?

Thanks,

-Smac

[Raingirl]

The hypocrisy in this thread is off the charts. But not at all surprising. 

[SeekingUnderstanding]

11 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Do you like any Latter-day Saints?

Do you simultaneously dislike that which designates them as Latter-day Saints?

Thanks,

-Smac

I dislike those that abuse a position of power and privilege to pick on the less fortunate. To the extent that applies to a Latter-day Saint, I dislike that. Oaks in particular has done and written hateful things. One need look no further than his white paper on helping the church deal with the homosexual issue. One need look no further than his pr interview where he instructed parents not to bring gay older siblings into the home. One need look no further than where he scolded church members for criticizing men like him even if the criticism is true. 

Edited February 11 by SeekingUnderstanding

[Tacenda]

40 minutes ago, Raingirl said:

The hypocrisy in this thread is off the charts. But not at all surprising. 

Raingirl, I should be smart enough to see what you're saying, do you mind elaborating?

 

[Pyreaux]

On 2/10/2024 at 1:13 PM, SeekingUnderstanding said:

It’s been said before, but there is no hate quite like Christian “love”. 

What do you think is love? You are a part-Jewish soldier with the Allied Forces during WWII. You find yourself separated from your platoon, alone until one night you run into a random Nazi German soldier who is also lost and so you forge a temporary truce. Getting cold and dark you were able to start a fire. You let him warm himself up, after all, maybe you'll find he's not in favor of the War. Nope. In a very fervent manner, he then proceeds to do his best in broken English to regale you with the virtues of using eugenics to improve the genetic quality of a human population and assorted Nazi propaganda against Jews. Is it wrong to then dislike everything about him? His beliefs, his government, even his self. You have food, and he is starving. Regardless of anything else you do or say, do you share food with him? If you do, is having compassion and mercy upon your enemy not love? To love some one, does it require you like his beliefs, his people, or his personal character?

Edited February 11 by Pyreaux

[SeekingUnderstanding]

16 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

What do you think is love?

Just the standard dictionary usage: “an intense feeling of deep affection.”

 

18 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

If you do, is having compassion and mercy upon your enemy not love?

No. Compassion is compassion. Mercy is mercy. They can be signs that you love someone, sure, but they are not love. Do you know what’s not a sign that you love someone? Expressing dislike. 

18 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

To love some one, does it require you like his beliefs, his people, or his personal character

If you dislike someone’s beliefs, culture, and personal character, those are all indications that you do not love them. As Calm said it’s possible to hold contradictory feelings at the same time. Especially for someone we have a long history with. I think the idea that you can love someone you just met that you feel strong disdain or dislike for is just a Christian construct to alleviate the cognitive dissonance associated with your perceived duties as a Christian. 

[MustardSeed]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

Raingirl, I should be smart enough to see what you're saying, do you mind elaborating?

 

(I’d assume she’s referencing the lack of love in the thread?) 

[LoudmouthMormon]

3 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

lol. Cline is “allegedly” an adult. 

Ok, are you saying my post is utterly without merit?  You see zero good in wanting a fuller picture before jumping on the outrage bandwagon?

[SeekingUnderstanding]

25 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Ok, are you saying my post is utterly without merit?  You see zero good in wanting a fuller picture before jumping on the outrage bandwagon?

Elected school board member publicly questioning the gender of a high school athlete in a way that was sure to bring the athlete ridicule? What else could you possibly need to know!? 

[Pyreaux]

45 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Just the standard dictionary usage: “an intense feeling of deep affection.”

No. Compassion is compassion. Mercy is mercy. They can be signs that you love someone, sure, but they are not love. Do you know what’s not a sign that you love someone? Expressing dislike. 

If you dislike someone’s beliefs, culture, and personal character, those are all indications that you do not love them. As Calm said it’s possible to hold contradictory feelings at the same time. Especially for someone we have a long history with. I think the idea that you can love someone you just met that you feel strong disdain or dislike for is just a Christian construct to alleviate the cognitive dissonance associated with your perceived duties as a Christian. 

Love phenomena has numerous non-specific and overlapping interrelations  There is a link between compassion and love. Attachment, commitment, intimacy, passion, grief upon separation, and jealousy are but a few of the loaded terms used to describe that which love represents. In science, love appears to be a multi-dimensional construct with many interpretations and implications.

It is through empathy which we make a connection between individuals before, or besides, a loving or caring relationship. This quality, the capacity to make contact, support and be supported, and connect links compassion as a part of love, attachment, social bonding, social support and closeness, i.e., ‘connectedness’. And all this is in domain of all sorts of ‘spirituality’.

[SeekingUnderstanding]

7 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

Love phenomena has numerous non-specific and overlapping interrelations  There is a link between compassion and love. Attachment, commitment, intimacy, passion, grief upon separation, and jealousy are but a few of the loaded terms used to describe that which love represents. In science, love appears to be a multi-dimensional construct with many interpretations and implications.

It is through empathy which we make a connection between individuals before, or besides, a loving or caring relationship. This quality, the capacity to make contact, support and be supported, and connect links compassion as a part of love, attachment, social bonding, social support and closeness, i.e., ‘connectedness’. And all this is in domain of all sorts of ‘spirituality’.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I didn’t see dislike, contempt, or bigotry anywhere in your post about love. 

[Pyreaux]

2 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I didn’t see dislike, contempt, or bigotry anywhere in your post about love. 

I thought we established that even a bigot can feel compassion, that one can both dislike a group and feel emotionally compelled to help them.

Edited February 12 by Pyreaux

[SteveO]

2 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

No. Compassion is compassion. Mercy is mercy. They can be signs that you love someone, sure, but they are not love. Do you know what’s not a sign that you love someone? Expressing dislike.

So I can have compassion for someone I dislike.  I can have mercy for someone I dislike.  I can have kindness for someone I dislike.  I can sacrifice for someone I dislike.  I can help someone I dislike.  I can serve someone I dislike.  I can have charity for someone I dislike…forgive someone I dislike…

Can’t love ‘em though. 

[SeekingUnderstanding]

3 hours ago, SteveO said:

Can’t love ‘em though. 

 

Can you love someone you hate? Love, like, dislike and hatred are all on continuum. It seems odd to try to hold onto both at the same time. As calm points out because we are complex, sometimes we can experience a strong like and dislike for the same person. But you specifically claimed that you don’t have to like someone you just have to love them. And that’s an oxymoron. 

Hate - 

verb

1. feel intense or passionate dislike for (someone).

    

    

[Tacenda]

4 hours ago, SteveO said:

So I can have compassion for someone I dislike.  I can have mercy for someone I dislike.  I can have kindness for someone I dislike.  I can sacrifice for someone I dislike.  I can help someone I dislike.  I can serve someone I dislike.  I can have charity for someone I dislike…forgive someone I dislike…

Can’t love ‘em though. 

I bet it causes some cog dis when the commandments say thou shalt love they neighbor....

I seriously get it though, love to you probably means something a little more. But you're still able to serve, be kind and helpful, have charity for, and sacrifice for....

I just wish you didn't lump all Afghans, but I haven't walked in your shoes to know what it might stem from. And I certainly have nearly zero world experience. 

[Tacenda]

6 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Elected school board member publicly questioning the gender of a high school athlete in a way that was sure to bring the athlete ridicule? What else could you possibly need to know!? 

It appears to be bullying in every way. Not a good look. 

[SteveO]

3 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

thou shalt love they neighbor

Who is my neighbor?

[Tacenda]

Just now, SteveO said:

Who is my neighbor?

Very good google question...I found this article. 

https://biblestudymedia.com/blogs/daily-lectionary-devotional/who-is-my-neighbor#:~:text=Jesus told him and you,of opinions and life choices.

[SteveO]

7 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Very good google question...I found this article. 

https://biblestudymedia.com/blogs/daily-lectionary-devotional/who-is-my-neighbor#:~:text=Jesus told him and you,of opinions and life choices.

Perfect

 

You might even say, the Samaritans and the Jews…didn’t like each other….

Edited February 12 by SteveO

[Calm]

4 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Can you love someone you hate?

The people we love could be the ones we hate the most because they are able to hurt us so deeply. 
 

Can a child love and hate a parent who abuses them?  Can a person love and hate a spouse who cheats on them?

[Pyreaux]

5 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Can you love someone you hate? Love, like, dislike and hatred are all on continuum. It seems odd to try to hold onto both at the same time. As calm points out because we are complex, sometimes we can experience a strong like and dislike for the same person. But you specifically claimed that you don’t have to like someone you just have to love them. And that’s an oxymoron. 

Hate - 

verb

1. feel intense or passionate dislike for (someone).

I think you can. However paradoxical, such experiences are fairly universal. You can be “caught” between emotions in a manner that leads you to feel them simultaneously. Ever felt happy and sad at the same time? Called "bittersweet", like on Memorial Day. Like the woeful situation of loving someone who won’t love you back. It’s also possible that in their pitiable frustration the lover might also experience a third emotion like anger.

Love-Hate Relationships experience intense emotions and tend to fluctuate between love and hate, they may even conceptualize conflict as a way to express love. A way to gauge their partner’s interest in them through their perseverance to seek resolution.

Envy is a feeling of resentment aroused in conjunction with desire for the possessions or qualities of another. Hugh Nibley thought this well describes how non-LDS Christians curiously both love and hate temples. What do Christians think about the destruction of the Temple, is it good riddance or a tragedy?

How might you relate to seeing an individual like in the OP you deeply dislike because you’ve observed this adult woman bullying a younger, smaller, defenseless child - if she were being bullied herself? On the one hand, you may experience a certain gratification at witnessing this bully get what she so richly deserves. Yet, if you have strong, adverse feelings toward bullying in general, you may be repulsed by two or three larger individuals savagely ridiculing and beating up on her.

Now she’s the victim - overpowered, helpless, and maybe even crying out in pain. So you may find yourself actually feeling compassion for her. Your mixed feelings come from your beliefs of justice and fair play. You saw the bully as the perpetrator; now you can’t help but perceive her as perpetrated against. Earlier you identified emotionally with her younger victim; now, curiously, you find yourself identifying with her. Such emotional ambivalence may have been totally unanticipated, yet it’s completely authentic. Your bipolar feelings make perfect sense, inasmuch as they’re fully in line with your most heartfelt beliefs.

I knew several ex-military, they were trained to dehumanize “others” as part of their preparation for war. Their frustrations can spill over into their community. Its hard to say whether there are extenuating circumstances to coincider when they dislike a group, and whether there is moral credit if they overcome their dislike and identify with and help an individual from that group.

Edited February 12 by Pyreaux

[smac97]

18 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Quote

Do you like any Latter-day Saints?

Do you simultaneously dislike that which designates them as Latter-day Saints?

I dislike those that abuse a position of power and privilege to pick on the less fortunate. To the extent that applies to a Latter-day Saint, I dislike that.

Okay.  But that does not answer the two questions above.

Do you like any Latter-day Saints?

Do you simultaneously dislike that which designates them as Latter-day Saints?

Thanks,

-Smac