LDS School Board Member Bullies Teenage Girl

[SteveO]

Just now, SeekingUnderstanding said:

It’s not possible. Step 1: stop disliking them. Especially for things they didn’t choose and aren’t responsible. Only a “Christian” would possibly attempt to call that love.

🙄

Did I, or did I not treat that Afghan woman in a Christlike manner?  
 

If I did not, how could I have done so?

[SeekingUnderstanding]

7 minutes ago, SteveO said:

🙄

Did I, or did I not treat that Afghan woman in a Christlike manner?  
 

If I did not, how could I have done so?

I’m not Christian and can not judge that aspect. I’m human though, and I will tell you that from my standpoint, I got nothing close to “love” from your story. Quite the opposite. But I’m just a random guy on the Internet commenting on the strange way Christians define love and how from the outside it feels very similar to hate. So if that’s what “Christlike” looks like, thanks but no thanks. 

[SteveO]

5 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

I’m not Christian and can not judge that aspect. I’m human though, and I will tell you that from my standpoint, I got nothing close to “love” from your story. Quite the opposite. But I’m just a random guy on the Internet commenting on the strange way Christians define love and how from the outside it feels very similar to hate. So if that’s what “Christlike” looks like, thanks but no thanks. 

No answer.

How bout you focus and provide commentary on where I, as a human being, could have more fully expressed love for my fellow man in the instance I shared.

Edited February 10, 2024 by SteveO

[SeekingUnderstanding]

5 minutes ago, SteveO said:

No answer.

How bout you focus and provide commentary on where I, as a human being, could have more fully expressed love for my fellow man in the instance I shared.

 

25 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Step 1: stop disliking them. Especially for things they didn’t choose and aren’t responsible for. Only a “Christian” would possibly attempt to call that love.

 

[SteveO]

Just now, SeekingUnderstanding said:

 

 

How would anyone know I disliked her, based on my actions, If I hadn’t volunteered that information on this board?

I’ll ask again, where did I fail in showing love to this woman based on my actions alone?

[SeekingUnderstanding]

Just now, SteveO said:

How would anyone know I disliked her, based on my actions, If I hadn’t volunteered that information on this board?

I’ll ask again, where did I fail in showing love to this woman based on my actions alone?

I said you failed at loving her. I said nothing about your actions anywhere. It’s disturbing to me that you think you can love someone that you dislike based on nothing more than the country they are from. 

[SteveO]

Just now, SeekingUnderstanding said:

I said you failed at loving her. I said nothing about your actions anywhere. It’s disturbing to me that you think you can love someone that you dislike based on nothing more than the country they are from. 

And where is the reward in loving only those you like?

[SeekingUnderstanding]

Just now, SteveO said:

And where is the reward in loving only those you like?

Reward!? That’s what you’re in it for huh? For the record that said nothing about rewards or your actions. Only that “loving” someone that you express dislike for (in capital letters no less) is both very Christian and feels like hate. If that’s the love you have to offer, no thanks. Gross. 

[SeekingUnderstanding]

1 minute ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Reward!? That’s what you’re in it for huh? For the record that said nothing about rewards or your actions. Only that “loving” someone that you express dislike for (in capital letters no less) is both very Christian and feels like hate. If that’s the love you have to offer, no thanks. Gross. 

“I think you are a gross human being, but in order to get eternal bliss, I’m required to help ‘people’ like you. See how much I ‘love’ you!?”

[SteveO]

13 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Reward!? That’s what you’re in it for huh? For the record that said nothing about rewards or your actions. Only that “loving” someone that you express dislike for (in capital letters no less) is both very Christian and feels like hate. If that’s the love you have to offer, no thanks. Gross. 

You’re being intentionally obtuse now.

”Reward” means satisfaction in this instance, as I was referencing Christ.  Like the warm, fuzzy feeling of helping someone in need.  I’m sure you knew that.

Thanks for your comments 
 

 

Edited February 10, 2024 by SteveO

[smac97]

On 2/9/2024 at 12:58 PM, The Nehor said:

LDS School Board Member Bullies Teenage Girl

Ex-Mormon mom charged with plotting Microsoft exec’s murder had affair with personal trainer, accused ex of gold digging

Ex-Mormon mom fell in love with her gym trainer before they 'plotted to kill her estranged husband' in front of his two-year-old daughter - and told cops her dead ex only married her for her money

Not sure how religious affiliation is germane to these news items.

On 2/9/2024 at 12:58 PM, The Nehor said:

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/08/us/natalie-cline-controversy-student-gender-social-media-posts/index.html

This is going to get more and more common. She insinuates that a player is transgender.

She was in error.  And it was a problematic thing to do/say anyway.

On 2/9/2024 at 12:58 PM, The Nehor said:

The girl in this situation was cisgender.

A female, yes.

On 2/9/2024 at 12:58 PM, The Nehor said:

If she were transgender it wouldn’t make it any better.

I think it is eminently reasonable to be concerned about, and/or disagree with, biological males participating in female sports.

That said, the time and place and manner which we discuss such things are important considerations.  An elected official targeting a particular teen on social media is troubling.

Thanks,

-Smac

[smac97]

23 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

In order to form any sort of opinion on the matter, I'd need more information about the teen girl, and I'd need to see Cline's post.  

 

23 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Upon learning background, facts, and context, I'd then be able to decide whether I would jump on the bandwagon to censure Cline, or jump on the bandwagon to keep biological males out of girls' sports, or somewhere in between.

I think I'm in the mood to do both.  Elected officials should not use social media posts to discuss any particulars regarding a teenager.

I also think it is eminently reasonable to oppose biological males participating in female sports.

Thanks,

-Smac

[smac97]

22 hours ago, mapman said:

Quote

In order to form any sort of opinion on the matter, I'd need more information about the teen girl, and I'd need to see Cline's post.  

This is disgusting.

No, it's not.  There is nothing wrong with wanting to see social media content before commenting on said content.

22 hours ago, mapman said:

No one should have a right to knowing about the details of another person's body, full stop. Especially a minor!

I think parents have every right to know about biological males participating in female sports, using female bathrooms, etc.

22 hours ago, mapman said:

Makes all the hypocrisy of wailing about protecting kids from queer people super obvious.

What "hypocrisy" are you referencing here?  

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited February 10, 2024 by smac97

[smac97]

22 hours ago, mapman said:

https://apnews.com/article/transgender-athlete-utah-school-board-member-governor-0aefa9baeb3cb5787687c8db02bf6241
The governor says this is embarrassing to the state, yet he just recently signed a bathroom law that will only encourage such behavior from people who think they can tell who is transgender or not. What a joke! It was painfully obvious that the mindset behind this law and Cline's comments was going to end up hurting cis girls and women as well as the intended target of bullying trans people. Anyone could have seen this coming.

It is eminently reasonable to be concerned about, and oppose, biological males participating in female sports.

Thanks,

-Smac

[smac97]

On 2/10/2024 at 9:15 AM, SteveO said:

I have it on good authority, from members of this board in fact, that isolated and rare instances does not a crisis make, and can’t be extrapolated to make a general commentary of a broader population.

If a crisis arose every time an elected official said or did something boneheaded or ill-advised, we would be in crisis mode nonstop.

A bit of circumspection is in order.

On 2/10/2024 at 9:15 AM, SteveO said:

And yet, given the constant topics around LGBTQ on this board, that seems to be what is happening here. Again. And so I ask again, what am I supposed to do with this information?  

Be angered, I suppose.

Oh, and blame the Church.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited February 12, 2024 by smac97

[smac97]

5 hours ago, JAHS said:

I suppose it can be assumed but is there any where she is actually identified as a member of the church? I don't see it in the article or other linked articles. Maybe it's just common knowledge.

And regardless of her membership in the Church, that has no bearing on this news item.

Thanks,

-Smac

[smac97]

5 hours ago, SteveO said:

Now.  How does this relate?  Because I am quite sick of all these lessons and talks at church, and the posts on here, about being welcoming and inclusive and how we need to be nice to people.  

I think this sort of commentary can be helpful because people can say and do unkind things to others, and reminders can be helpful in the journey to overcome such things.

5 hours ago, SteveO said:

It's like they constantly feel the need to remind us to have basic human decency.  And it is quite off putting to me.  Your little snippet here, like I’m jumping on a bandwagon of what?  Intolerance and hate?  Like I’m unable to be a decent human being?  I just want them queers to suffer and be miserable?  That it?  

This is the part of discussions of this sort that I find troubling.   I think it quite right and appropriate for the Brethren to exhort us to be kind to our fellow man.  However, online commentary about "kindness" can quickly take on a veneer along the lines of equating it (kindness) to accepting or capitulating to this or that sociopolitical point of view, and if you do not accept or capitulate to this view, then the narrative becomes that you are not being "kind," are are instead being a bigot, intolerant, hateful, etc.

This sort of manipulative equivocation is not a healthy thing.

5 hours ago, SteveO said:

Second hour of ward conference recently was on "ministering to the one".  I didn’t go.  I'm sorry man but I just do not accept that I am supposed to care about someone else's life more than they do.  

I have lately come to appreciate the wisdom of a saying attributed to the author Ian Maclaren: “Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.”

You cared about the Afghan woman.  You ministered to her.  That was good.

5 hours ago, SteveO said:

I am happy to help and be kind to people. But this begging people to come to church crap I just don’t care for.

What do you see is the difference in inviting people to Church different as opposed to, say, your experience in driving the Afghan woman to the store?

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited February 10, 2024 by smac97

[smac97]

5 hours ago, Tacenda said:

This gal does have an agenda:

https://www.facebook.com/NatalieJCline/

She's a politician, so yes.

Most folks have an agenda of one sort or another, I guess.

Thanks,

-Smac

[The Nehor]

7 hours ago, SteveO said:

And yet, given the constant topics around LGBTQ on this board, that seems to be what is happening here. Again. And so I ask again, what am I supposed to do with this information?  

Get horribly offended I assume.

Are all posts here supposed to inspire activism? Should I be composing some kind of “friend of the court” thing for the latest tithing lawsuit?

[The Nehor]

5 hours ago, SteveO said:

Now.  How does this relate?  Because I am quite sick of all these lessons and talks at church, and the posts on here, about being welcoming and inclusive and how we need to be nice to people.  It's like they constantly feel the need to remind us to have basic human decency.  And it is quite off putting to me.  Your little snippet here, like I’m jumping on a bandwagon of what?  Intolerance and hate?  Like I’m unable to be a decent human being?  I just want them queers to suffer and be miserable?  That it?  

What is the point of this post?  To make me aware we have dopes in the church?  Okay.  We have dopes in the church.  It’s not a representation of the church as a whole or its members.

Second hour of ward conference recently was on "ministering to the one".  I didn’t go.  I'm sorry man but I just do not accept that I am supposed to care about someone else's life more than they do.  I am happy to help and be kind to people. But this begging people to come to church crap I just don’t care for.  And garbage posts like this that insinuate members have a lack of compassion, or have built or foster or defend a toxic, unwelcoming culture is tiresome.  Come, or don’t come.  I don’t care.  You want a ride? Sure l'll come pick you up. But I'm not begging you to come to church.  

I don’t know how to say this nicely but the post wasn’t about you. That you seem to think it was an attack on you personally is something you may want to look into.

[SteveO]

2 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Get horribly offended I assume.

Are all posts here supposed to inspire activism? Should I be composing some kind of “friend of the court” thing for the latest tithing lawsuit?

No, I just think anytime you use the term “cisgender” unironically in a post, it probably needs to stay on the trash heap of Twitter where it belongs.

Us normies can’t stomach the absurdity 

[SteveO]

4 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I don’t know how to say this nicely but the post wasn’t about you. That you seem to think it was an attack on you personally is something you may want to look into.

Good to know.  I gave you my unsolicited opinion on what I thought about your post.  It wasn’t good

Edited February 10, 2024 by SteveO

[The Nehor]

46 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Ex-Mormon mom charged with plotting Microsoft exec’s murder had affair with personal trainer, accused ex of gold digging

Ex-Mormon mom fell in love with her gym trainer before they 'plotted to kill her estranged husband' in front of his two-year-old daughter - and told cops her dead ex only married her for her money

Not sure how religious affiliation is germane to these news items.

She was in error.  And it was a problematic thing to do/say anyway.

A female, yes.

I think it is eminently reasonable to be concerned about, and/or disagree with, biological males participating in female sports.

That said, the time and place and manner which we discuss such things are important considerations.  An elected official targeting a particular teen on social media is troubling.

Thanks,

-Smac

Compared to many posts on this board this one was heavily tied to the church as it occurred where they are and involves members.

She wasn’t “in error” or “problematic”. She was bullying a minor and inspiring danger to said minor. She knew this. She did it anyways. The cruelty is the point.

They prefer to be called women. Unless you’re a ferengi.

She wasn’t stating a position on transgender women playing in women’s sports. She was implying that a literal child was deceiving someone to “sneak in”. This led to that child being targeted. That is an expected result. Unless she is a complete idiot she knew that. She did it anyways. It wasn’t a mistake. It was an attempt to hurt a child. It succeeded to some extent I’m sure. Calling out a woman for being insufficiently feminine is CRUEL. The kids around her are going to see this story. Some of the parents are going to ask their kids about this girl. This is the kind of thing that leads to parents pulling their child out of school for their emotional protection. She knew this. She did it anyways. It wasn’t an error. It was an attempt to hurt a child for not conforming enough to her idiotic standard.

An adult using their power to target a child is troubling? You’re hopeless.

28 minutes ago, smac97 said:

She's a politician, so yes.

Most folks have an agenda of one sort or another, I guess.

And some of those have the agenda of targeting and harming literal children. Remember that grooming thing you were freaking out about because it might somehow harm children? This is like that only this one is actually real and happening.

[The Nehor]

11 minutes ago, SteveO said:

No, I just think anytime you use the term “cisgender” unironically in a post, it probably needs to stay on the trash heap of Twitter where it belongs.

Us normies can’t stomach the absurdity 

That’s a cissy thing to say.

Note that that was an ironic use.

11 minutes ago, SteveO said:

Good to know.  I gave you my unsolicited opinion on what I thought about your post.  It wasn’t good

So using the church spectrum if it wasn’t “good” does that mean it was “better” or “best”?

[SteveO]

36 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

So using the church spectrum if it wasn’t “good” does that mean it was “better” or “best”?

My post made it “better”.  I am open to constructive criticism.