Better to know right from wrong or know God?

[Rain]

I am reading "Anatomy of the Soul".  One quote from it:

"In fact, the story of Eden shows how, like Adam and Eve, we are more interested in knowing right from wrong...than knowing God..."

1. Do you think people are more interested in knowing right from wrong than knowing God?

2. Is that a good thing or not?

3. If not a good thing, how do we change that? If it is a good thing, why is it good?

Full disclosure: I, personally, think it is better to try to know God.

[Tacenda]

6 minutes ago, Rain said:

I am reading "Anatomy of the Soul".  One quote from it:

"In fact, the story of Eden shows how, like Adam and Eve, we are more interested in knowing right from wrong...than knowing God..."

1. Do you think people are more interested in knowing right from wrong than knowing God?

2. Is that a good thing or not?

3. If not a good thing, how do we change that? If it is a good thing, why is it good?

Full disclosure: I, personally, think it is better to try to know God.

I think they go hand in hand.

[mfbukowski]

7 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I think they go hand in hand.

You must have had hundreds of  "upvotes" since whoever decided to take that away from you for whatever your unpardonable nefarious grievous sin was, why I will never know.

Consider this one!

 

[Calm]

21 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I think they go hand in hand.

Amen.

To know him, imo, is to want to show him love by listening to him, obeying him, and being like him. The tree was attractive outside of smelling and tasting delicious because it gave godlike knowledge of right and wrong. What better way to get to know someone than to become more like them?

Edited August 15, 2023 by Calm

[bluebell]

25 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I think they go hand in hand.

Agreed.  I don't know how a theist would be more interested in right and wrong than knowing God, because I can't figure out how a theist would even determine what right and wrong was, without recognizing that who God is is intimately connected to the answer.

[Rain]

55 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I think they go hand in hand.

I think they can go hand in hand, but they don't always.  I also think that we miss something of we stick with the right from wrong, verses knowing God.  We miss a more full understanding.  The why.  

[Pyreaux]

Character trumps knowledge. Even devils believe and tremble. A moral atheist could indeed be more virtuous than an immoral believer. All will one day know, but not all will be worthy.

[SkyRock]

What did "knowing good from evil" do for Adam and Eve besides bringing them sorrow?  Did they actually get anything from eating the fruit besides mortality and separating them from God?  It was the tree of death, physical and spiritual. 

Satan told them it would make them wise and be like God, but that was not truthful.   It made them mortal so they could learn through sad experience. 

Knowing God is to know good.   All good comes from God.   If we know God, we are transformed through ordinances and faith and obedience. 

[JLHPROF]

4 hours ago, Rain said:

I am reading "Anatomy of the Soul".  One quote from it:

"In fact, the story of Eden shows how, like Adam and Eve, we are more interested in knowing right from wrong...than knowing God..."

1. Do you think people are more interested in knowing right from wrong than knowing God?

2. Is that a good thing or not?

3. If not a good thing, how do we change that? If it is a good thing, why is it good?

Full disclosure: I, personally, think it is better to try to know God.

I think it's impossible to know God without knowing right from wrong.  That's why the Fall was the plan from the beginning.

Without knowledge of right and wrong they could never have actually known God.

[Rain]

4 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

I think it's impossible to know God without knowing right from wrong.  That's why the Fall was the plan from the beginning.

Without knowledge of right and wrong they could never have actually known God.

Can you know right from wrong without knowing God?

[JLHPROF]

1 minute ago, Rain said:

Can you know right from wrong without knowing God?

The reverse of my comment?

That's the age old question posed by atheists.  Can we be good without God?  Up to a point sure.  But that's another thread.

[Rain]

38 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

The reverse of my comment?

That's the age old question posed by atheists.  Can we be good without God?  Up to a point sure.  But that's another thread.

Hmm. Not quite.  You would still have God.  He could still guide you making choices.  The real question is what knowing God on top of that does for you.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, SkyRock said:

What did "knowing good from evil" do for Adam and Eve besides bringing them sorrow?  Did they actually get anything from eating the fruit besides mortality and separating them from God?  It was the tree of death, physical and spiritual. 

Children?

[rodheadlee]

Never mind 

Edited August 16, 2023 by rodheadlee

[SkyRock]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Children?

A part becoming mortal for sure.   

And a great source of learning and growth. 

[Tacenda]

2 hours ago, Rain said:

Can you know right from wrong without knowing God?

I'm betting on it. I think it was a God given moral compass.

[JLHPROF]

2 hours ago, SkyRock said:

What did "knowing good from evil" do for Adam and Eve besides bringing them sorrow?  Did they actually get anything from eating the fruit besides mortality and separating them from God? 

The ability to progress.  Their progress would have been stunted if not stopped without the fall.

[teddyaware]

8 hours ago, Rain said:

I am reading "Anatomy of the Soul".  One quote from it:

"In fact, the story of Eden shows how, like Adam and Eve, we are more interested in knowing right from wrong...than knowing God..."

1. Do you think people are more interested in knowing right from wrong than knowing God?

2. Is that a good thing or not?

3. If not a good thing, how do we change that? If it is a good thing, why is it good?

Full disclosure: I, personally, think it is better to try to know God.

Because the author of “Anatomy of the Soul” is almost certainly ignorant of the teachings of the the Book of Mormon, he’s formulated a mostly erroneous dichotomy that seems profound at first blush, but the further light and knowledge found in the restoration scriptures reveal that his notion is unsupported by true theological principles.

The fact of the matter is that if Adam and Eve had chosen to not partake of the fruit of knowledge they would have remained in their pre-fallen condition forever, and, as a consequence, they would have forever remained ignorant of the knowledge of God and his eternal purposes. And paradoxically, this ignorance of the knowledge of God would have continued in spite of living in God’s immediate presence.

The prophet Lehi sets forth the true doctrine concerning the one and only way Adam and Eve could have obtained a knowledge of the things of God:

22 And now, behold, if Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen, but he would have remained in the garden of Eden. And all things which were created must have remained in the same state in which they were after they were created; and they must have remained forever, and had no end.

23 And they would have had no children; wherefore they would have remained in a state of innocence, having no joy, for they knew no misery; doing no good, for they knew no sin. (2 Nephi 2)

And again, in the Book of Moses Adam and Eve themselves powerfully testify that the only way they could have gained the knowledge of God would be by leaving the joyless, dead-end existence of Eden and entering the fallen state by partaking of the fruit of the tree of knowledge:

10 And in that day Adam blessed God and was filled, and began to prophesy concerning all the families of the earth, saying: Blessed be the name of God, for because of my transgression my eyes are opened, and in this life I shall have joy, and again in the flesh I shall see God.

11 And Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was glad, saying: Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient. (Moses 5)

Our first parents settle the issue: without the fall they would have never known God in a way that would enable them to grow spiritually and obtain eternal life. The choice was to forever remain in a joyless, pointless existence, or fall in order to come to truly know God and, through the redemption of Christ, eventually come to know all he knows.

Edited August 16, 2023 by teddyaware

[The Nehor]

Unless anyone has a way to undo the Fall that choice is really not in front of any of us.

[Nofear]

12 hours ago, Pyreaux said:

Character trumps knowledge. Even devils believe and tremble. A moral atheist could indeed be more virtuous than an immoral believer. All will one day know, but not all will be worthy.

“A man is saved no faster than he gets knowledge, for if he does not get knowledge, he will be brought into captivity by some evil power in the other world, as evil spirits will have more knowledge, and consequently more power than many men who are on the earth. Hence it needs revelation to assist us, and give us knowledge of the things of God.” -- Joseph Smith

I quite agree that who we are, who we become is what matters. LDS theology, however, intermingles light, knowledge, and truth with character and who we are. Indeed, we assert that it impossible to know certain things but we are of the character/mind/spirit to understand them. See 1 Cor 2:11-14 and also Alma 12:9-12 and yet others. An atheist can indeed know a great deal but at some point their unbelief will curtail understanding. An immoral believer does not and cannot understand many Gospel truths as well. I have also seen the light of understanding Gospel truths dim from those who have become disenfranchised with the Church. Often they suppose they understand as they once did (or usually they think they understand it "better") but it is vanity and illusion.

[Rain]

9 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Unless anyone has a way to undo the Fall that choice is really not in front of any of us.

Tell me more of what you are thinking here.

[mfbukowski]

18 hours ago, bluebell said:

Agreed.  I don't know how a theist would be more interested in right and wrong than knowing God, because I can't figure out how a theist would even determine what right and wrong was, without recognizing that who God is is intimately connected to the answer.

Does anyone even notice that the words themselves are etymologically intertwined??

Like "good and "God"??

Notice a similarity in spelling?

Oi vey!

Edited August 16, 2023 by mfbukowski

[bluebell]

7 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Does anyone even notice that the words themselves are etymologically intertwined??

Like "good and "God"??

Notice a similarity in spelling?

Oi vey!

They are in english, that's true.  Do you believe that was done on purpose?  Are they etymologically intertwined in other languages?

[mfbukowski]

Just now, bluebell said:

They are in english, that's true.  Do you believe that was done on purpose?  Are they etymologically intertwined in other languages?

Yep, Germanic languages, Dutch, German, related languages 

[bluebell]

14 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Yep, Germanic languages, Dutch, German, related languages 

Can you explain what point the etymologically intertwined words in some languages is making?  I'd like to understand your thinking on that better.  I'm not understanding it yet I don't think.

Edited August 16, 2023 by bluebell