Is Lumen Output An Indicator Of Our God's Power?

[Sara H]

My husband's birthday was last week, and as a present I got him a Nitecore flashlight, which is a really high-tech device that has different light outputs and can detect objects more than 800 yards away. And because of that, I found myself wondering about the rock Joseph employed in the translation of the golden plates. My husband's new flashlight has a setting that's called "firefly mode," and when it's on, it's so dim that you can hardly see anything until you point the light at anything that's less than a foot away. I believe firefly mode to be approximately the lumen output that Joseph's seer stone had. But if God is going to give a rock magical powers so that he can communicate with Joseph, then why not give the rock a greater lumen output than firefly mode so that no hat is required to read the words that are displayed on the screen that is found on the rock? 

 

 Is it possible that our God has not yet reached a point in his development where he is able to construct a seer stone with a higher lumen output? That is a very important inquiry! If it is true that Gods improve as they gain experience, then it stands to reason that they reach ever-higher levels of brilliance with each new world that they create and populate with their spirit offspring. I believe that the dull seer stone is a good indicator that the God we worship may be a new God and that he may not be as knowledgable as the Gods that have come before him. Other signs that our God is a new God include the imperfections that are present in our mortal bodies, such as cancer, male pattern baldness, arthritis, and a great deal of other diseases and conditions. If you give it some serious consideration, there is a good chance that there is another earth out there somewhere in the cosmos that is governed by a more experienced God that has way more knowledge than our God. This would mean that he is better at constructing mortal bodies than our God, which would mean that there is a good chance that the mortal bodies he creates on that earth are far more advanced than the mortal bodies that our spirits inhabit while they are on this earth. Perhaps the Joseph Smith who lived on the other God's planet didn't need to put the rock in a hat in order to see the writing on it since the lumen output of his rock was significantly higher than the lumen output of the rock that our Joseph Smith used. 

 

You are welcome to contribute some of the thoughts you have regarding how to make the world a better place than the one we now inhabit.

 

 

 

[teddyaware]

52 minutes ago, Sara H said:

My husband's birthday was last week, and as a present I got him a Nitecore flashlight, which is a really high-tech device that has different light outputs and can detect objects more than 800 yards away. And because of that, I found myself wondering about the rock Joseph employed in the translation of the golden plates. My husband's new flashlight has a setting that's called "firefly mode," and when it's on, it's so dim that you can hardly see anything until you point the light at anything that's less than a foot away. I believe firefly mode to be approximately the lumen output that Joseph's seer stone had. But if God is going to give a rock magical powers so that he can communicate with Joseph, then why not give the rock a greater lumen output than firefly mode so that no hat is required to read the words that are displayed on the screen that is found on the rock? 

 

 Is it possible that our God has not yet reached a point in his development where he is able to construct a seer stone with a higher lumen output? That is a very important inquiry! If it is true that Gods improve as they gain experience, then it stands to reason that they reach ever-higher levels of brilliance with each new world that they create and populate with their spirit offspring. I believe that the dull seer stone is a good indicator that the God we worship may be a new God and that he may not be as knowledgable as the Gods that have come before him. Other signs that our God is a new God include the imperfections that are present in our mortal bodies, such as cancer, male pattern baldness, arthritis, and a great deal of other diseases and conditions. If you give it some serious consideration, there is a good chance that there is another earth out there somewhere in the cosmos that is governed by a more experienced God that has way more knowledge than our God. This would mean that he is better at constructing mortal bodies than our God, which would mean that there is a good chance that the mortal bodies he creates on that earth are far more advanced than the mortal bodies that our spirits inhabit while they are on this earth. Perhaps the Joseph Smith who lived on the other God's planet didn't need to put the rock in a hat in order to see the writing on it since the lumen output of his rock was significantly higher than the lumen output of the rock that our Joseph Smith used. 

 

You are welcome to contribute some of the thoughts you have regarding how to make the world a better place than the one we now inhabit.

 

 

 

Talk about being presumptuous… This is presumptuousness on steroids! I’m guessing this has got to be either an attempt at tongue-in-cheek LDS humor, or it’s the end result of a frenetic brainstorming session conjured by a church critic who delusionally imagines she’s hit the anti-LDS talking points jackpot. 

Edited August 8, 2023 by teddyaware

[Amulek]

I suspect the knowledge needed to create a human body, despite the limitations of mortality, is orders of magnitude greater than that needed to produce a Kindle Paperwhite. YMMV.

 

[Stormin' Mormon]

1 hour ago, Sara H said:

Other signs that our God is a new God include the imperfections that are present in our mortal bodies, such as cancer, male pattern baldness, arthritis, and a great deal of other diseases and conditions.

And yet, resurrected, glorified, celestial bodies are said to not have these imperfections.  So our Father in Heaven apparently knows how to create perfect bodies for His children.  

[Calm]

2 hours ago, Sara H said:

Is it possible that our God has not yet reached a point in his development where he is able to construct a seer stone with a higher lumen output?

He created the Sun and yet cannot manage a brightly glowing rock?

Don’t see that as likely at all.

Quote

 I believe that the dull seer stone is agood indicator that the God we worship may be a new God and that he may not be as knowledgable as the Gods that have come before him

And why go to the problem being at God’s end and not Joseph Smith’s?  It was his seer stone.  Maybe it was his end of the connection that was weak.

We also don’t know if the stone was actually glowing or if he only saw the letters in his mind (I am behind on the research, so I could be wrong on this).  No one else saw the stone while it was glowing, so we can’t be sure if it acted like a Kindle Paperwhite or if it was more spiritual projection/vision like apparently Moroni’s visits in his (and his siblings’) bedroom.  My guess is it is the latter as that would be in line with all his other forms of revelation.  Maybe the hat was needed not to block out light, but to block out distractions.

https://archive.bookofmormoncentral.org/content/seers-and-stones-translation-book-mormon-divine-visions-old-time-seer

Edited August 8, 2023 by Calm

[blackstrap]

Troll,troll, troll your post gently down the thread 

[The Nehor]

Whatever you are smoking I hope you brought enough for the whole class.

[Sara H]

13 hours ago, teddyaware said:

Talk about being presumptuous… This is presumptuousness on steroids! I’m guessing this has got to be either an attempt at tongue-in-cheek LDS humor, or it’s the end result of a frenetic brainstorming session conjured by a church critic who delusionally imagines she’s hit the anti-LDS talking points jackpot. 

What on earth are you referring to with that statement? You think I'm being too presumptuous since I asked a question about lumen output that's very straightforward?  Your remark demonstrates, in my opinion, that once we fully accept a particular dogma, the majority of us will, almost automatically, build walls around specific beliefs and defend them at all costs, even if doing so requires us to go to extremes. 

 

Let's take this and dissect it, shall we? As members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we hold the belief that space travel is possible, that invisible entities can move from one location to another and even travel through space, possibly even to other universes. According to our beliefs, there will be a resurrection at some point in the future, and at that time, billions of people will emerge from graves that have at least five or six feet of dirt covering them so that they might once again stand erect on earth. Are the two instances that I just given you something that you agree with? If this is the case, I would appreciate it if you could explain why the question I posed in my initial post warranted the response I received. It is not assuming too much to inquire about the lumen output of a rock. 

 

 

 

[Sara H]

12 hours ago, Calm said:

He created the Sun and yet cannot manage a brightly glowing rock?

By using the sun as an example, you have, in a sense, demonstrated that I am correct. Because of the low amount of light that it emits in comparison to other suns, one may say that our sun is in the "firefly" setting. When compared to other suns, our sun is on the smaller end of the spectrum. And I believe it demonstrates that there are much more advanced gods out there that have evolved past our god, to the point where they have learned how to make suns that are not only larger than the one we orbit around, but many of them are possibly considerably more efficient than our sun. This could be evidence that there are gods that are much more advanced than our god. In connection with the topic of the cosmos, I believe that the fact that our sun has eight planets revolving around it but only one of them is capable of supporting life is yet another indication that our God is still quite inexperienced when it comes to the formation of solar systems. If what we believe as Latter-day Saints is correct, then I think there is a big probability that when we die, we will find out that some of these larger, more efficient burning suns will have several habitable planets orbiting them because the God who produced them was much more intelligent than our God. 

The star UY Scuti, has an estimated radius that if it was the center of our universe,  its outer shell would reach just past the orbit of Jupiter. So the question is, how much more advanced is the God that formed UY Scuti compared to our God? I think in the future we will discover multiple planets orbiting stars such as UY Scuti.

 

 

Edited August 9, 2023 by Sara H

[Sara H]

12 hours ago, Calm said:

It was his seer stone

No, it wasn't his stone. It was God's stone. 

[Sara H]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

Whatever you are smoking I hope you brought enough for the whole class.

I'm going to hold the door to your safe space open for you, and anytime you feel ready to move beyond the boundaries that you've set for yourself, you should feel free to walk through. I'll keep the door open incase you feel a desire to run back in.

[CV75]

14 hours ago, Sara H said:

My husband's birthday was last week, and as a present I got him a Nitecore flashlight, which is a really high-tech device that has different light outputs and can detect objects more than 800 yards away. And because of that, I found myself wondering about the rock Joseph employed in the translation of the golden plates. My husband's new flashlight has a setting that's called "firefly mode," and when it's on, it's so dim that you can hardly see anything until you point the light at anything that's less than a foot away. I believe firefly mode to be approximately the lumen output that Joseph's seer stone had. But if God is going to give a rock magical powers so that he can communicate with Joseph, then why not give the rock a greater lumen output than firefly mode so that no hat is required to read the words that are displayed on the screen that is found on the rock? 

 

 Is it possible that our God has not yet reached a point in his development where he is able to construct a seer stone with a higher lumen output? That is a very important inquiry! If it is true that Gods improve as they gain experience, then it stands to reason that they reach ever-higher levels of brilliance with each new world that they create and populate with their spirit offspring. I believe that the dull seer stone is a good indicator that the God we worship may be a new God and that he may not be as knowledgable as the Gods that have come before him. Other signs that our God is a new God include the imperfections that are present in our mortal bodies, such as cancer, male pattern baldness, arthritis, and a great deal of other diseases and conditions. If you give it some serious consideration, there is a good chance that there is another earth out there somewhere in the cosmos that is governed by a more experienced God that has way more knowledge than our God. This would mean that he is better at constructing mortal bodies than our God, which would mean that there is a good chance that the mortal bodies he creates on that earth are far more advanced than the mortal bodies that our spirits inhabit while they are on this earth. Perhaps the Joseph Smith who lived on the other God's planet didn't need to put the rock in a hat in order to see the writing on it since the lumen output of his rock was significantly higher than the lumen output of the rock that our Joseph Smith used. 

 

You are welcome to contribute some of the thoughts you have regarding how to make the world a better place than the one we now inhabit.

 

 

 

I know that Lamans (and Lemuels) are definitely not.

[Sara H]

13 hours ago, Stormin' Mormon said:

And yet, resurrected, glorified, celestial bodies are said to not have these imperfections.  So our Father in Heaven apparently knows how to create perfect bodies for His children.  

If a God wants their children to be able to enter the kingdom of heaven that we will be living in after we die, I believe it is more likely that a council of God's established the limitations on what a celestial body has to be or not be. This is the case whether or not a God wants their children to enter the kingdom. It's likely that there are numerous gods and their offspring residing in a heaven together. There's probably multiple heavens. Therefore, there is a fair likelihood that when our God was building our celestial bodies, he was working from an everlasting "recipe" that he had to follow to the letter if he wanted us to be able to enter heaven once we had completed our time on earth as mortals. But I believe that he is now free to be able to build mortal bodies on his own, and the reason that we are so imperfect is because he is still learning how to form mortal bodies without the supervision of a God who has more expertise in this area. 

 

[Calm]

56 minutes ago, Sara H said:

What on earth are you referring to with that statement? You think I'm being too presumptuous since I asked a question about lumen output that's very straightforward? 

Seriously?  You focus on the lumen issue in this response and appear to ignore what you said about a new God, our God who we are to worship and respect and have Awe towards, who has been called the Almighty for eons, not being very good at his job?  You don’t see how you, a very fallible and imperfect being as all mortals are, calling God who is not only immortal, but proclaimed to be perfect, a being who does shabby work is not a wee bit presumptuous?

[Calm]

7 hours ago, Sara H said:

By using the sun as an example, you have, in a sense, demonstrated that I am correct.

I don’t think you are taking your ideas far enough in their implications because I have actually done the opposite of what you are claiming because your premise bigger is better is wrong in this case.

7 hours ago, Sara H said:

Because of the low amount of light that it emits in comparison to other suns, one may say that our sun is in the "firefly" setting. When compared to other suns, our sun is on the smaller end of the spectrum. And I believe it demonstrates that there are much more advanced gods out there that have evolved past our god, to the point where they have learned how to make suns that are not only larger than the one we orbit around, but many of them are possibly considerably more efficient than our sun.

Except the level of the output of our Sun makes it very useful to create conditions for life.  Higher output suns would burn off possible life.  You need lower out suns and planets with good magnetic fields to protect from the dangerous radiation forms even low level suns emit to produce conditions useful for life.

 More planets in a solar system means more interaction between planetary bodies and possibly more instability in planetary conditions.  Similarly, one large moon creates tides that may create better conditions for life to form and evolve where multiple moons would cause a more complicated interaction and could mess up a planet’s rotation and tilt (where our one moon stabilizes it), which is likely not as conducive to life forming.

Edited August 9, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Sara H said:

No, it wasn't his stone. It was God's stone. 

Okay.  How about responding to the more relevant part of my response of the higher probability that the issue was with the receiver of the message, the very fallible and imperfect mortal, Joseph, and not with the perfected, immortal, God?

Edited August 9, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

2 hours ago, Sara H said:

Therefore, there is a fair likelihood that when our God was building our celestial bodies, he was working from an everlasting "recipe" that he had to follow to the letter if he wanted us to be able to enter heaven once we had completed our time on earth as mortals.

Why wouldn’t he be doing the same for mortal bodies?  Following a recipe that yields the best result?  Why would an all loving, compassionate Father not want what was best for his children and so restrict his experimentation to things that wouldn’t cause massive suffering of his children if it wasn’t necessary?  Why assume the one (has to toe the line for resurrection or else it’s failure) and not the other (someone cares enough to oversee what he does to his mortal toys—as that seems to be how you think God views us since he is willing to experiment on us—since mortals are the ones who will become the celestial beings)?

If there has been established a perfected, highly efficient process to develop perfect resurrected beings, seems likely there has been plenty of chances to develop the best and most efficient system for creating mortal bodies since they come first in the overall process and that only those gods capable of such levels of creation are let out of the sandbox to go play on their own, at least for when it comes to sentient beings capable of suffering.  Otherwise this glorified council of supreme beings who ensure eternal perfection for its spiritual children has intentionally allowed horrendous levels of unnecessary suffering by not providing aid where needed to a less developed god creator.

Edited August 9, 2023 by Calm

[bluebell]

4 hours ago, Sara H said:

By using the sun as an example, you have, in a sense, demonstrated that I am correct. Because of the low amount of light that it emits in comparison to other suns, one may say that our sun is in the "firefly" setting. When compared to other suns, our sun is on the smaller end of the spectrum. And I believe it demonstrates that there are much more advanced gods out there that have evolved past our god, to the point where they have learned how to make suns that are not only larger than the one we orbit around, but many of them are possibly considerably more efficient than our sun. This could be evidence that there are gods that are much more advanced than our god. In connection with the topic of the cosmos, I believe that the fact that our sun has eight planets revolving around it but only one of them is capable of supporting life is yet another indication that our God is still quite inexperienced when it comes to the formation of solar systems. If what we believe as Latter-day Saints is correct, then I think there is a big probability that when we die, we will find out that some of these larger, more efficient burning suns will have several habitable planets orbiting them because the God who produced them was much more intelligent than our God. 

The star UY Scuti, has an estimated radius that if it was the center of our universe,  its outer shell would reach just past the orbit of Jupiter. So the question is, how much more advanced is the God that formed UY Scuti compared to our God? I think in the future we will discover multiple planets orbiting stars such as UY Scuti.

 

 

We believe it’s the same God who created both.

And I don’t think you have to be all that advanced, as a God, to create a brighter star. They all work basically the same way. If you know how to create one kind of star, then you know how to create every kind of star.  You could compare it to creating people of different heights. The mechanism is the same, it’s just the different inputs into the model that changes things.

Edited August 9, 2023 by bluebell

[mfbukowski]

Any discussion mixing science with religion is bound to go wrong.

It takes us back to Galileo and his trial, and the Scopes trial about evolution.

These are category mistakes.

Science is about HOW things work while religion is about the PURPOSE of things.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_mistake#:~:text=A category mistake (or category,could not possibly have that

Edited August 9, 2023 by mfbukowski

[bluebell]

5 hours ago, Sara H said:

By using the sun as an example, you have, in a sense, demonstrated that I am correct. Because of the low amount of light that it emits in comparison to other suns, one may say that our sun is in the "firefly" setting. When compared to other suns, our sun is on the smaller end of the spectrum. And I believe it demonstrates that there are much more advanced gods out there that have evolved past our god, to the point where they have learned how to make suns that are not only larger than the one we orbit around, but many of them are possibly considerably more efficient than our sun.

 

 

 

Wouldn't it more likely demonstrate that God wanted us not to die from radiation poisoning?

(not that life would have gotten as far as us ever even showing up though.  If our star was bigger--and therefore hotter and brighter--our planet could not have ever sustained it).

[The Nehor]

8 hours ago, Sara H said:

By using the sun as an example, you have, in a sense, demonstrated that I am correct. Because of the low amount of light that it emits in comparison to other suns, one may say that our sun is in the "firefly" setting. When compared to other suns, our sun is on the smaller end of the spectrum. And I believe it demonstrates that there are much more advanced gods out there that have evolved past our god, to the point where they have learned how to make suns that are not only larger than the one we orbit around, but many of them are possibly considerably more efficient than our sun. This could be evidence that there are gods that are much more advanced than our god. In connection with the topic of the cosmos, I believe that the fact that our sun has eight planets revolving around it but only one of them is capable of supporting life is yet another indication that our God is still quite inexperienced when it comes to the formation of solar systems. If what we believe as Latter-day Saints is correct, then I think there is a big probability that when we die, we will find out that some of these larger, more efficient burning suns will have several habitable planets orbiting them because the God who produced them was much more intelligent than our God.

Those bigger stars burn through their material more quickly. It would also be difficult for life to develop in such an environment. The big benefit to large stars is supernova which generate virtually all of the most complex atoms beyond iron on the periodic table. They are unlikely to have planets teeming with life.

All it takes to make a bigger star is to just to put more stuff in it to start with. It doesn’t take intelligence to pull it off.

7 hours ago, Sara H said:

If a God wants their children to be able to enter the kingdom of heaven that we will be living in after we die, I believe it is more likely that a council of God's established the limitations on what a celestial body has to be or not be. This is the case whether or not a God wants their children to enter the kingdom. It's likely that there are numerous gods and their offspring residing in a heaven together. There's probably multiple heavens. Therefore, there is a fair likelihood that when our God was building our celestial bodies, he was working from an everlasting "recipe" that he had to follow to the letter if he wanted us to be able to enter heaven once we had completed our time on earth as mortals. But I believe that he is now free to be able to build mortal bodies on his own, and the reason that we are so imperfect is because he is still learning how to form mortal bodies without the supervision of a God who has more expertise in this area. 

God is a bumbling incompetent is an interesting take.

7 hours ago, Sara H said:

I'm going to hold the door to your safe space open for you, and anytime you feel ready to move beyond the boundaries that you've set for yourself, you should feel free to walk through. I'll keep the door open incase you feel a desire to run back in.

LOL, of course you denigrate safe spaces while being a Dunning-Kruger effect stereotype.

[teddyaware]

22 hours ago, Sara H said:

My husband's birthday was last week, and as a present I got him a Nitecore flashlight, which is a really high-tech device that has different light outputs and can detect objects more than 800 yards away. And because of that, I found myself wondering about the rock Joseph employed in the translation of the golden plates. My husband's new flashlight has a setting that's called "firefly mode," and when it's on, it's so dim that you can hardly see anything until you point the light at anything that's less than a foot away. I believe firefly mode to be approximately the lumen output that Joseph's seer stone had. But if God is going to give a rock magical powers so that he can communicate with Joseph, then why not give the rock a greater lumen output than firefly mode so that no hat is required to read the words that are displayed on the screen that is found on the rock? 

 

 Is it possible that our God has not yet reached a point in his development where he is able to construct a seer stone with a higher lumen output? That is a very important inquiry! If it is true that Gods improve as they gain experience, then it stands to reason that they reach ever-higher levels of brilliance with each new world that they create and populate with their spirit offspring. I believe that the dull seer stone is a good indicator that the God we worship may be a new God and that he may not be as knowledgable as the Gods that have come before him. Other signs that our God is a new God include the imperfections that are present in our mortal bodies, such as cancer, male pattern baldness, arthritis, and a great deal of other diseases and conditions. If you give it some serious consideration, there is a good chance that there is another earth out there somewhere in the cosmos that is governed by a more experienced God that has way more knowledge than our God. This would mean that he is better at constructing mortal bodies than our God, which would mean that there is a good chance that the mortal bodies he creates on that earth are far more advanced than the mortal bodies that our spirits inhabit while they are on this earth. Perhaps the Joseph Smith who lived on the other God's planet didn't need to put the rock in a hat in order to see the writing on it since the lumen output of his rock was significantly higher than the lumen output of the rock that our Joseph Smith used. 

 

You are welcome to contribute some of the thoughts you have regarding how to make the world a better place than the one we now inhabit.

 

 

 

Now that I see you actually want to have a semi-serious discussion about your highly presumptuous ideas, I will now prove your proposition is flat out wrong and ill informed from the start. Errors like yours are what happens when a thesis is developed without factoring in all the available evidence.

In point of fact, the original divine translation tool that Moroni buried along with the plates was a Urim and Thumim, which was a pair of ancient “eyeglasses” with specialized “lenses” made of crystalline earthly material, modified by the Lord in such a manner as to allow a man with sufficient faith and spiritual power to become a seer —  someone enabled of God to translate lost languages into existing languages. Church history indicates that this original translating tool was made to be used in the broad daylight, without the seer having to sit in a pitch dark room that would have made it impossible for a scribe to do his work.

If you doubt me, I ask you why would God create a translating tool designed to be worn like eyeglasses, but needing to be used in pitch dark rooms that would have made the work of the scribes impossible to accomplish? The problem is that the historical accounts inform us that much of the work of translation was accomplished in the broad daylight, when conditions would have made it impossible to block out enough daylight for the “lenses” of the  Urim and Thummim to work in the way you suggest they need to work.

At any rate (perhaps in prophetic anticipation to your questions) the Lord did in fact create the very scientific instrument you presume he didn’t create — a translating tool powerful enough illuminate the spiritual mind and function effectively in the absence of physical darkness. So now you’ll have to go back to the drawing board and figure out another way to demonstrate that our God is a sort of backward rube, a primative Neanderthal when compared the more intelligent and technologically advanced Gods.

P.S. But in fairness to you, perhaps the Urim and Thummim actually were designed to work in the pitch dark rooms and the Lord did in fact reveal to Joseph how to create dark rooms, while also providing to Martin, Emma and and Oliver one lumen flashlights that enabled the translating rooms to remain dark enough for the work of translation to go forward, while simultaneously allowing for the presence of just enough light for the scribes to perform their work? Anything’s possible…

 

Edited August 9, 2023 by teddyaware

[pogi]

23 hours ago, Sara H said:

My husband's birthday was last week, and as a present I got him a Nitecore flashlight, which is a really high-tech device that has different light outputs and can detect objects more than 800 yards away. And because of that, I found myself wondering about the rock Joseph employed in the translation of the golden plates. My husband's new flashlight has a setting that's called "firefly mode," and when it's on, it's so dim that you can hardly see anything until you point the light at anything that's less than a foot away. I believe firefly mode to be approximately the lumen output that Joseph's seer stone had. But if God is going to give a rock magical powers so that he can communicate with Joseph, then why not give the rock a greater lumen output than firefly mode so that no hat is required to read the words that are displayed on the screen that is found on the rock? 

 

 Is it possible that our God has not yet reached a point in his development where he is able to construct a seer stone with a higher lumen output? That is a very important inquiry! If it is true that Gods improve as they gain experience, then it stands to reason that they reach ever-higher levels of brilliance with each new world that they create and populate with their spirit offspring. I believe that the dull seer stone is a good indicator that the God we worship may be a new God and that he may not be as knowledgable as the Gods that have come before him. Other signs that our God is a new God include the imperfections that are present in our mortal bodies, such as cancer, male pattern baldness, arthritis, and a great deal of other diseases and conditions. If you give it some serious consideration, there is a good chance that there is another earth out there somewhere in the cosmos that is governed by a more experienced God that has way more knowledge than our God. This would mean that he is better at constructing mortal bodies than our God, which would mean that there is a good chance that the mortal bodies he creates on that earth are far more advanced than the mortal bodies that our spirits inhabit while they are on this earth. Perhaps the Joseph Smith who lived on the other God's planet didn't need to put the rock in a hat in order to see the writing on it since the lumen output of his rock was significantly higher than the lumen output of the rock that our Joseph Smith used. 

 

You are welcome to contribute some of the thoughts you have regarding how to make the world a better place than the one we now inhabit.

You have this all wrong!  Clearly you have no reasonable grasp of the rock/lumen capacity that God is capable of!   

The problem was not with God, the problem was that Joseph only had enough faith currency to acquire the Thummim model X, which is only equipped with "firefly mode"; unlike the brother of Jared who had enough to acquire not one, but 16 Urim 2000's, which when set on level 2 (out of 10 levels) had enough lumen capacity to light-up an entire barge as if it was daylight.   Clearly you are an amateur when it comes to the lumen capacity of stones. 

[ksfisher]

10 minutes ago, pogi said:

You have this all wrong!  Clearly you have no reasonable grasp of the rock/lumen capacity that God is capable of!   

The problem was not with God, the problem was that Joseph only had enough faith currency to acquire the Thummim model X, which is only equipped with "firefly mode"; unlike the brother of Jared who had enough to acquire not one, but 16 Urim 2000's, which when set on level 2 (out of 10 levels) had enough lumen capacity to light-up an entire barge as if it was daylight.   Clearly you are an amateur when it comes to the lumen capacity of stones. 

This problem has been solved by the new LED seer stones that the church is using.  We don't have to turn the lights on in our chapel any more on Sunday morning.

[rodheadlee]

I think this should be a more serious discussion. Do we believe there are other Gods beside our God or not? That see over other Galxiies or Universes? Does God have a Father? We know he has a Son. Do they eternally progress in knowledge?