I asked the Artificial Intelligence platform ChatGPT a simple question.

[Kenngo1969]

On 1/20/2023 at 8:42 PM, Pyreaux said:

... The evidence shows Chili [sic] was settled long before the corridor opened up for anyone to have come across the Bering Strait. ...

If you go to Chile in June, July, or August, it is in the Southern Hemisphere, so its seasons are opposite of those of us who are in the Northern Hemisphere (that is, although June, July, and August constitute summer here, they constitute winter there), it's apt to be quite chilly.  So be sure to dress warm.  I'm not well versed enough in Chilean cuisine to know if Chileños have a dish that is similar to what we in North America call "chili," but, if they do, and if you get cold during our-summer-their-winter, perhaps you could have a bowl of whatever it is to warm you up! ;-D

Sorry!  Couldn't resist!

Edited January 22, 2023 by Kenngo1969

[Tacenda]

9 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

An accidental printing error, that was actually a clarification originally made by Joseph Smith himself; the word groups of pure, white, clean, and spotless are clearly synonyms for pure, but the uneducated white farmers of Utah had other ideas. Yet, was still forward thinking to accept them into their culture where other white Americans were preaching they were obstacles in God's way: Manifest Destiny.

Wrong is wrong, but how do many Natives who are happy members see the church, who've long interpreted to Book differently then white members, how it helps them with temporal needs and offers alternatives solutions if they believe in Christianity but want to know their significance in the Christian story is, if God was mindful of them and the fate of their non-Christian ancestors. 

Why aren't the beliefs before the white man came to take away their lands good enough? I feel they out do many religious beliefs, honestly. Hey, maybe I'll be like Kevin Costner's character in "Dances With Wolves"? I have high esteem for their heritage. And hate how the white men used them to get their lands and basically destroy Mother Earth. Laugh, I don't care. 

[Pyreaux]

4 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

If you go to Chile in June, July, or August, it is in the Southern Hemisphere, so its seasons are opposite of those of us who are in the Northern Hemisphere.  (That is, although June, July, and August constitute summer here, they constitute winter there.)  So be sure to dress warm.  I'm not well versed enough in Chilean cuisine to know if Chileños have a dish that is similar to what we in North America call "chili," but, if they do, and if you get cold during our-summer-their-winter, perhaps you could have a bowl of whatever it is to warm you up! ;-D

Sorry!  Couldn't resist!

Freudian slip, I must be hungry, its noon and I haven't eaten yet.

[Tacenda]

2 hours ago, Emily said:

😄You make a good point.

But really, you know, it's downright deplorable that the Book of Mormon has the gall to suggest that Native Americans are diverse, ethnically speaking. It comes right out and says that there have been groups of people migrating here from all kinds of unspecified countries, each and every one allowed to enter this continent with God's permission or personally led by the hand of God. Shame on the church.

As members, we can't deny that the pernicious book that we actually believe is a historical record, even gives details on a couple of handfuls of people coming here from the Middle East. In fact it devotes a whole chapter blathering on about the travels of an even bigger group (maybe from Central Asia?) that migrated to this continent. And all of them would have interbred with people in Meso-America (or upper state New York if you are into the Heartland theory). Ewww.

The book even goes so far as to suggest that the (albeit diluted by that point) Middle Eastern DNA was put on boats and spread up and down the coast of the continent, and was sent out to other islands in the sea, and some of the boats came back! Boats!  Drifting who knows where? Picking up who knows what other nasty, alien DNA to corrupt the purity of the Bering Strait people in the process. Shame on this book.

Come to think of it, something needs to be said to those scientists who keep insisting Vikings made their way over here. And the ones who are proposing the ice bridge from western Europe... Shame on them as well. Those studies showing drift of prevailing genetic patterns from south to north...all evil lies. True Native Americans only moved from North to South. The scientists need to apologize. They are obviously bigots out to destroy the dignity of Native American tradition.

The only true Native American tradition that can be allowed is the one that depicts a ethnic group -- proud and brave tribes of Mammoth hunters -- tramping their way back and forth across the Bering Strait for centuries until suddenly the bridge melted!  Locking that singular, isolated culture of Mammoth Hunters away in pristine, solitary splendor until the day that Columbus sailed the ocean blue.

All true Bering Strait tradition believers must unite and demand an apology!

 

Here, here!

[Kenngo1969]

5 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

Freudian slip, I must be hungry, its noon and I haven't eaten yet.

I know the feeling! 

[Kenngo1969]

5 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Here, here!

Whoooshhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!🤣

[InCognitus]

50 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_people_and_Mormonism#:~:text=In 1981%2C church leaders changed,a pure and delightsome people".

See Book of Mormon, 1840 Nauvoo Edition, 2 Nephi 30:3-6, also on the Joseph Smith Papers site - Book of Mormon, 1840, p. 115,  "and their scales of darkness shall begin to fall from their eyes; and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a pure and delightsome people."   Joseph Smith is the "church leader" that made that change in the 1840 edition, but subsequent editions used the 1837 edition for printing.  The change made by Joseph Smith was restored to the 1981 edition.

Look at Daniel 12:10 in the KJV Bible:    "Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall  understand."

Also Daniel 11:35  "And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed."

Compare Daniel 11:35 to other translations:  

NIV:  "Some of the wise will stumble, so that they may be refined, purified and made spotless until the time of the end, for it will still come at the appointed time."

NASB95 “Some of those who have insight will fall, in order to refine, purge and make them pure until the end time; because it is still to come at the appointed time."

[Pyreaux]

56 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Why aren't the beliefs before the white man came to take away their lands good enough? I feel they out do many religious beliefs, honestly. Hey, maybe I'll be like Kevin Costner's character in "Dances With Wolves"? I have high esteem for their heritage. And hate how the white men used them to get their lands and basically destroy Mother Earth. Laugh, I don't care. 

The LDS could only offer what we thought was true to us, they needed to preserve their own culture. The LDS were enemies of the whites who destroyed their people and plowed over their great structures to erase their heritage. We were the Native's friends and allies.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Pyreaux

[Craig Speechly]

17 hours ago, CV75 said:

Ask it, "Who is Craig Speechly"?

😂 I did. Crickets 

[CV75]

1 hour ago, Craig Speechly said:

😂 I did. Crickets 

Not me... oops, that was Google  So I believe it!

[Bernard Gui]

13 hours ago, Tacenda said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_people_and_Mormonism#:~:text=In 1981%2C church leaders changed,a pure and delightsome people".

May I recommend the writings of Native American scholar Vine DeLoria, Jr.? 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vine_Deloria_Jr.

He argues against the Bering Strait theory and other Western scientific intrusions into Native American lives and beliefs. Check out God is Red for some very interesting reading about NA religions vs. Christianity, and Red Earth, White Lies about the conflict between Western science and NA tribal knowledge. He is especially critical of the Bering Strait theory. That is not where NAs believe they came from.  It conflicts with and negates their ancestral and tribal knowledge. That wreaks far worse damage to their heritage than anything the Book of Mormon could ever do.

Some origin stories…

https://ket.pbslearningmedia.org/collection/native-america/t/sacred-origin-stories/

Edited January 22, 2023 by Bernard Gui

[rodheadlee]

On 1/20/2023 at 5:32 PM, Tacenda said:

And sadly this people has had their heritage swiped from them when told they are from Israelites. That is something the church needs to apologize for. 

Actually the Hopi believe they came from the center of the earth. Many indigenous  tribes believe that. Perhaps you should study it a bit.

[Orthodox Christian]

On 1/21/2023 at 5:06 AM, Bernard Gui said:

We will always be a fringe group. 

I think all Christians are on the fringe now, maybe that's how it should be: in the world but not of it.

[Calm]

25 minutes ago, Orthodox Christian said:

I think all Christians are on the fringe now, maybe that's how it should be: in the world but not of it.

30% of the world is Christian, the highest of any religious group, including nonreligious. How can we possibly be a fringe group?

Edited January 22, 2023 by Calm

[Orthodox Christian]

10 minutes ago, Calm said:

30% of the world is Christian, the highest of any religious group, including nonreligious. How can we possibly be a fringe group?

Hi Calm, I was thinking in terms of our secular societies, especially in the West. Numbers actually don't matter, of that 30% many will be nominally Christian, probably never having been in a church since their baptism, which to some Christians is only a tradition. I think it might be true to say that religion is becoming a dirty word in many areas of Western society. People have said to me, Oh you're religious aren't you, as though I have some sort of illness. So if you are Christian and don't go along with mainstream liberal thinking, then you are generally despised as a bigoted hater. Sorry if I have digressed.

[Emily]

On 1/21/2023 at 9:12 AM, CV75 said:

Once in a while I get my jollies keeping a spammer on the phone a long time, especially as if I'm on the toilet, then getting agitated and faking diarrhea, a heart attack or something. Good stuff to record.

Do you have a landline? My parents got tons of spam/scam calls on their landline so I know they still exist, but with a spam blocker installed on my cell phone, it's been...at least a year, probably more, since I got an actual call and maybe one text sneaks through every month or two. Scam calls were pretty sparse on my mobile even before I installed the blocker so I didn't think they were much of a thing anymore. 

 

[Emily]

On 1/20/2023 at 5:24 PM, Craig Speechly said:

Confirmation that members of the church remain a fringe group

Ahem. I prefer the phrase "peculiar people." 

But you remind me of the Orson Scott Card novel "Folk of the Fringe." It's a collection of fictional stories about LDS members (and those interacting with them) in a post-apocalyptic world.

I don't recall many specific details, but there was one memorable character who had been serving as a Primary leader before the crises. She was constantly encouraging the children to sing as they hiked the bombed out highways from New York to Salt Lake. At one point their guide threatened her with violence if he had to hear, "Pioneer Children Sang as They Walked" one more time .

The memory of that particular snippet from the book still gives me giggles. So thanks for the memory. 😄

 

 

 

 

[CV75]

8 minutes ago, Emily said:

Do you have a landline? My parents got tons of spam/scam calls on their landline so I know they still exist, but with a spam blocker installed on my cell phone, it's been...at least a year, probably more, since I got an actual call and maybe one text sneaks through every month or two. Scam calls were pretty sparse on my mobile even before I installed the blocker so I didn't think they were much of a thing anymore. 

 

My comment was largely exaggerated and facetious... the last time I did this sort of thing was maybe early 2000s*. I turned up the TV very loud (I Love Lucy) and acted like I couldn't hear the caller, asking them to repeat themselves. Whenever Ricky raised his voice or Lucy started crying, I held the receiver extra close to the set. I don't know why they didn't hang up. The national do not call list was effective on the landline until about 3 years ago. Since then, the internet services we've used have roboblockers, so it really hasn't been an issue, and my cell thankfully just gets wrong numbers not spam) occasionally.

*Around that time, my father in his 80s recorded a conversation in which he pretended he couldn't hear well and acted naive and gullible (and best of all, forgetful!), taking a long time to repeat and write things down, etc., giving the caller made-up SS#, date of birth, address, etc. (and always way off by a few digits somehow), led him on for a good 20 minutes -- better than Crank Yankers.

[Emily]

13 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

Actually the Hopi believe they came from the center of the earth. Many indigenous  tribes believe that. Perhaps you should study it a bit.

The Hopi have retained some absolutely fascinating traditions. They have a sacred ceremony as complex and meaningful as our Temple ceremony. And they also present one of those transoceanic mysteries where you have to ask, "Just how likely is it that two cultures could have complicated symbols that not only look similar, but also have related meanings, if they did not have some point of contact between them?"

Anyone not familiar with it should look up: "Hopi Labyrinth Drawings" and "Minoan Labyrinth Drawings." 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Emily]

8 minutes ago, CV75 said:

my father in his 80s recorded a conversation in which he pretended he couldn't hear well and acted naive and gullible (and best of all, forgetful!),

Sadly, my 80 year old mother is truly all of the above and suffering the downward slope of dementia as well, so scammers have been an actual threat to my parents well being for the last few years. Anyone that keeps them on the line and unable to talk some poor senior out of their life's savings has my approval. I just wish there was something more permanent that could be done with them. 

[CV75]

33 minutes ago, Emily said:

Sadly, my 80 year old mother is truly all of the above and suffering the downward slope of dementia as well, so scammers have been an actual threat to my parents well being for the last few years. Anyone that keeps them on the line and unable to talk some poor senior out of their life's savings has my approval. I just wish there was something more permanent that could be done with them. 

Sorry about your mother. My father in law is in the same situation. Maybe AI is being deployed to thwart and apprehend offenders. 

[Bernard Gui]

On 1/21/2023 at 10:06 AM, Emily said:

😄You make a good point.

But really, you know, it's downright deplorable that the Book of Mormon has the gall to suggest that Native Americans are diverse, ethnically speaking. It comes right out and says that there have been groups of people migrating here from all kinds of unspecified countries, each and every one allowed to enter this continent with God's permission or personally led by the hand of God. Shame on the church.

As members, we can't deny that the pernicious book that we actually believe is a historical record, even gives details on a couple of handfuls of people coming here from the Middle East. In fact it devotes a whole chapter blathering on about the travels of an even bigger group (maybe from Central Asia?) that migrated to this continent. And all of them would have interbred with people in Meso-America (or upper state New York if you are into the Heartland theory). Ewww.

The book even goes so far as to suggest that the (albeit diluted by that point) Middle Eastern DNA was put on boats and spread up and down the coast of the continent, and was sent out to other islands in the sea, and some of the boats came back! Boats!  Drifting who knows where? Picking up who knows what other nasty, alien DNA to corrupt the purity of the Bering Strait people in the process. Shame on this book.

Come to think of it, something needs to be said to those scientists who keep insisting Vikings made their way over here. And the ones who are proposing the ice bridge from western Europe... Shame on them as well. Those studies showing drift of prevailing genetic patterns from south to north...all evil lies. True Native Americans only moved from North to South. The scientists need to apologize. They are obviously bigots out to destroy the dignity of Native American tradition.

The only true Native American tradition that can be allowed is the one that depicts a ethnic group -- proud and brave tribes of Mammoth hunters -- tramping their way back and forth across the Bering Strait for centuries until suddenly the bridge melted!  Locking that singular, isolated culture of Mammoth Hunters away in pristine, solitary splendor until the day that Columbus sailed the ocean blue.

All true Bering Strait tradition believers must unite and demand an apology!

 

Crossing multiple glaciated mountain ranges.

“The bottom line about the information possessed by non-Western peoples is that the information becomes valid only when offered by a white scholar recognized by the academic establishment; in effect, the color of the skin guarantees scientific objectivity.”

Vine Deloria Jr.

Edited January 22, 2023 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

12 hours ago, Orthodox Christian said:

I think all Christians are on the fringe now, maybe that's how it should be: in the world but not of it.

As long as we stay with Joseph and Mormon we will be on the fringe. 

Edited January 22, 2023 by Bernard Gui

[2BizE]

On 1/20/2023 at 5:24 PM, Craig Speechly said:

Q: Are Native Americans descended from Israelites

 

A:There is no scientific evidence to support the claim that Native Americans are descended from Israelites. The origin of the Indigenous peoples of the Americas is a complex issue that has been debated by scholars for centuries. The current scientific consensus is that the ancestors of the Indigenous peoples of the Americas migrated to the Americas via the Bering Strait from Asia around 15,000 to 20,000 years ago. Genetic studies have also provided evidence that supports the Asian origin of the Indigenous peoples of the Americas. The claim that Native Americans are descended from Israelites is a controversial and fringe theory that is not supported by mainstream.

Confirmation that members of the church remain a fringe group

 

This AI is correct. Native Americans did not descend from Israel. DNA evidence suggests Native American ancestors moved through Asia and across an ice bridge to North America about 20,000 years ago. 

Edited January 22, 2023 by 2BizE

[Bernard Gui]

2 hours ago, Emily said:

The Hopi have retained some absolutely fascinating traditions. They have a sacred ceremony as complex and meaningful as our Temple ceremony. And they also present one of those transoceanic mysteries where you have to ask, "Just how likely is it that two cultures could have complicated symbols that not only look similar, but also have related meanings, if they did not have some point of contact between them?"

Anyone not familiar with it should look up: "Hopi Labyrinth Drawings" and "Minoan Labyrinth Drawings." 

My parents were friends with Pueblo elder Eugene Naranjo who was also branch president of the Santa Clara Pueblo. While he did not reveal sacred kiva ceremonies, he stated that there were striking similarities with temple ordinances.

The Pueblo creation story is similar to the Navajo story.

He also told of a man named Clemente who visited his family periodically and taught them sacred concepts related to the gospel. Eugene was a rock of faith. 

Edited January 22, 2023 by Bernard Gui