I asked the Artificial Intelligence platform ChatGPT a simple question.

[Pyreaux]

I gave it a try but I was only finding fringe forums throwing some names like "Dr. Joseph Lorenz from Coriell Institute for Medical Research was also searching for the DNA markers typical of “Native Americans” in the DNA samples taken from the bones of five individuals from Windover. He did not find what he was looking for... [they] looked European.” conspiratorial debates over X6 and X2a and their European origins that went on until I went cross-eyed and decided to come back here to simply report my failure. If they are Asian they sure looked like redheaded white people that dressed in plaid, but I'll retract my statement.

Edited January 23, 2023 by Pyreaux

[Calm]

28 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

If they are Asian they sure looked like redheaded white people that dressed in plaid, but I'll retract my statement.

Pictures?  I saw reconstructions that were dark haired.

Here’s one that shows how they are buried…fabric is said to be woven, but didn’t see it saying it was plaid, didn’t say it wasn’t though.

https://myfloridahistory.org/frontiers/article/1

Edited January 23, 2023 by Calm

[Orthodox Christian]

12 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

As long as we stay with Joseph and Mormon we will be on the fringe. 

Maybe so, but you will not be alone, many Christians who stick to their faith will be with you.

[rodheadlee]

On 1/22/2023 at 2:48 PM, Bernard Gui said:

Crossing multiple glaciated mountain ranges.

“The bottom line about the information possessed by non-Western peoples is that the information becomes valid only when offered by a white scholar recognized by the academic establishment; in effect, the color of the skin guarantees scientific objectivity.”

Vine Deloria Jr.

Don't forget the first commandment: thou shalt not find DNA of a white man older than all the red men er um  indigenous natives DNA.

Edited January 24, 2023 by rodheadlee

[Pyreaux]

On 1/23/2023 at 1:55 AM, Calm said:

Pictures?  I saw reconstructions that were dark haired.

Here’s one that shows how they are buried…fabric is said to be woven, but didn’t see it saying it was plaid, didn’t say it wasn’t though.

https://myfloridahistory.org/frontiers/article/1

I've been seeing photos like this, red hair and red beard. 

It was apparently that old Science Channel program I posted, where at the end, Dr. Joseph Lorenz from Coriell Institute for Medical Research said his DND testing showed they were European; this program has been the source of the conspiracy theory ever since.

Edited January 24, 2023 by Pyreaux

[Scott Lloyd]

On 1/20/2023 at 8:42 PM, Pyreaux said:

An A.l. that is dependent on the internet for information is going to be no more intelligent than the ordinary people who write on the internet. It's a red flag is when anyone says, "There is no scientific evidence", it means you are getting information from an unscientific source. There is scientific evidence, whether it convincing is a different issue, most subjects have anomalies that will be considered counter evidence for other hypotheses. The evidence shows Chili was settled long before the corridor opened up for anyone to have come across the Bering Strait. Genetic studies show that one of the founding markers in Native Americans (Navajo, Yakima, Ojibwa etc.) includes X2a2 and it originates from Levant (Ancient Palestine) and not from Siberia.

And it would have gotten away with it too, if it weren’t for those meddling kids and their mangy dog. 

[Hamba Tuhan]

10 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

I've been seeing photos like this, red hair and red beard. 

I'm pretty certain that's a Celtic bog sacrifice mummy.

[Calm]

24 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

I've been seeing photos like this, red hair and red beard. 

Given the composition of the soil/water and what hair looks like as it breaks down, chances are that reddish color has nothing to do with red hair and much more like chemical reactions after thousands of years in the bog, just like bleach and other chemicals change hair color.

Edited January 24, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

14 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I'm pretty certain that's a Celtic bog sacrifice mummy.

And you are close, bog sacrifice yes.  It’s the Tollund Man apparently, in Denmark.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tollund_Man

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/03/were-europes-mysterious-bog-people-human-sacrifices/472839/

Quote

The hair was cut short, 1-3 cm long – the red colour of his hair is due to the influence of the bog water. We don’t know his original hair colour.

https://www.museumsilkeborg.dk/what-did-tollund-man-look-like-when-he-was-found

Edited January 24, 2023 by Calm

[Bernard Gui]

On 1/23/2023 at 6:23 AM, Orthodox Christian said:

Maybe so, but you will not be alone, many Christians who stick to their faith will be with you.

Struth. Here is what Alma said:

Quote

And thus we can behold how false, and also the unsteadiness of the hearts of the children of men; yea, we can see that the Lord in his great infinite goodness doth bless and prosper those who put their trust in him. Yea, and we may see at the very time when he doth prosper his people, yea, in the increase of their fields, their flocks and their herds, and in gold, and in silver, and in all manner of precious things of every kind and art; sparing their lives, and delivering them out of the hands of their enemies; softening the hearts of their enemies that they should not declare wars against them; yea, and in fine, doing all things for the welfare and happiness of his people; yea, then is the time that they do harden their hearts, and do forget the Lord their God, and do trample under their feet the Holy One—yea, and this because of their ease, and their exceedingly great prosperity.

 

[Meadowchik]

On 1/21/2023 at 1:32 AM, Tacenda said:

And sadly this people has had their heritage swiped from them when told they are from Israelites. That is something the church needs to apologize for. 

I think that's the biggest harm, and it encompasses the resulting actions too of facilitating the fostering and adoption of native children with the intent to "remove the curse." 

They were not cursed. And in my opinion they would have been much better off growing up in their own biological families, perhaps with some outside assistance but without taking them from their homes.

It should also be noted that whitewashing cultures doesn't just apply to native Americans, but to anyone the church identified as Lamanites and by doing so implied some spiritual purpose through that.  Everyone has a real history, even if for some it is more difficult to know. It does not benefit people to insist to know their personal ancestral history based on the Book of Mormon. 

Imo the church must call it what it is: unverified speculation at best.

[Tacenda]

5 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

I think that's the biggest harm, and it encompasses the resulting actions too of facilitating the fostering and adoption of native children with the intent to "remove the curse." 

They were not cursed. And in my opinion they would have been much better off growing up in their own biological families, perhaps with some outside assistance but without taking them from their homes.

It should also be noted that whitewashing cultures doesn't just apply to native Americans, but to anyone the church identified as Lamanites and by doing so implied some spiritual purpose through that.  Everyone has a real history, even if for some it is more difficult to know. It does not benefit people to insist to know their personal ancestral history based on the Book of Mormon. 

Imo the church must call it what it is: unverified speculation at best.

I wish I could CFR the church sometimes and ask how that thought process came to be.

[Tacenda]

Here is a woman sharing her feelings about being taught she was a Lamanite.

www.lamanitetruth.com

 

Edited January 26, 2023 by Tacenda