I asked the Artificial Intelligence platform ChatGPT a simple question.

[Craig Speechly]

Q: Are Native Americans descended from Israelites

 

A:There is no scientific evidence to support the claim that Native Americans are descended from Israelites. The origin of the Indigenous peoples of the Americas is a complex issue that has been debated by scholars for centuries. The current scientific consensus is that the ancestors of the Indigenous peoples of the Americas migrated to the Americas via the Bering Strait from Asia around 15,000 to 20,000 years ago. Genetic studies have also provided evidence that supports the Asian origin of the Indigenous peoples of the Americas. The claim that Native Americans are descended from Israelites is a controversial and fringe theory that is not supported by mainstream.

Confirmation that members of the church remain a fringe group

 

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Craig Speechly said:

Q: Are Native Americans descended from Israelites

 

A:There is no scientific evidence to support the claim that Native Americans are descended from Israelites. The origin of the Indigenous peoples of the Americas is a complex issue that has been debated by scholars for centuries. The current scientific consensus is that the ancestors of the Indigenous peoples of the Americas migrated to the Americas via the Bering Strait from Asia around 15,000 to 20,000 years ago. Genetic studies have also provided evidence that supports the Asian origin of the Indigenous peoples of the Americas. The claim that Native Americans are descended from Israelites is a controversial and fringe theory that is not supported by mainstream.

Confirmation that members of the church remain a fringe group

 

And sadly this people has had their heritage swiped from them when told they are from Israelites. That is something the church needs to apologize for. 

[LoudmouthMormon]

Well, I asked it about transgendered children.

A: Most young people who experience gender dysphoria will grow into their normal biological sex by early adulthood. Studies have shown that the majority of children who express a desire to be the opposite sex will eventually accept their biological sex as they mature. This process is known as "desistance," and it is thought to occur because gender dysphoria is often related to a child's exploration of their identity and their place in the world. As children grow and develop, they gain a better understanding of themselves and their bodies, and this often leads to a resolution of their gender dysphoria. However, it's also important to note that for some individuals, gender dysphoria may persist into adulthood and may require more long-term support.

 

 

Then I asked it to Write a love song about a Russian brony boy and a Ukrainian furry girl.

A:   
He was a brony, from Moscow town She was a furry, from Ukraine bound
They met online, in a chat room late Their love was real, it couldn't wait

Chorus: It's the Furry-Brony love, baby! Where their love was born and it's never dying
It's the Furry-Brony love, baby! Where their hearts are beating, never crying

Verse 2: They shared a love, for all things cute With fursonas, they felt so astute
They talked for hours, every single day Their love was strong, it wouldn't sway

Chorus

Bridge: They knew that distance, was no match For the love they shared, a perfect catch
With each other, they felt so alive In the Furry-Brony love, everything's right

Chorus

Outro: It's the Furry-Brony love, baby! Where their love was born and it's never dying It's the Furry-Brony love, baby! Where their hearts are beating, never crying

[CV75]

32 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Well, I asked it about transgendered children.

A: Most young people who experience gender dysphoria will grow into their normal biological sex by early adulthood. Studies have shown that the majority of children who express a desire to be the opposite sex will eventually accept their biological sex as they mature. This process is known as "desistance," and it is thought to occur because gender dysphoria is often related to a child's exploration of their identity and their place in the world. As children grow and develop, they gain a better understanding of themselves and their bodies, and this often leads to a resolution of their gender dysphoria. However, it's also important to note that for some individuals, gender dysphoria may persist into adulthood and may require more long-term support.

 

 

Then I asked it to Write a love song about a Russian brony boy and a Ukrainian furry girl.

A:   
He was a brony, from Moscow town She was a furry, from Ukraine bound
They met online, in a chat room late Their love was real, it couldn't wait

Chorus: It's the Furry-Brony love, baby! Where their love was born and it's never dying
It's the Furry-Brony love, baby! Where their hearts are beating, never crying

Verse 2: They shared a love, for all things cute With fursonas, they felt so astute
They talked for hours, every single day Their love was strong, it wouldn't sway

Chorus

Bridge: They knew that distance, was no match For the love they shared, a perfect catch
With each other, they felt so alive In the Furry-Brony love, everything's right

Chorus

Outro: It's the Furry-Brony love, baby! Where their love was born and it's never dying It's the Furry-Brony love, baby! Where their hearts are beating, never crying

Do I see a chiasmus in EModE in there? 

Ask it to translate an ancient religious record!

[CV75]

1 hour ago, Craig Speechly said:

Q: Are Native Americans descended from Israelites

 

A:There is no scientific evidence to support the claim that Native Americans are descended from Israelites. The origin of the Indigenous peoples of the Americas is a complex issue that has been debated by scholars for centuries. The current scientific consensus is that the ancestors of the Indigenous peoples of the Americas migrated to the Americas via the Bering Strait from Asia around 15,000 to 20,000 years ago. Genetic studies have also provided evidence that supports the Asian origin of the Indigenous peoples of the Americas. The claim that Native Americans are descended from Israelites is a controversial and fringe theory that is not supported by mainstream.

Confirmation that members of the church remain a fringe group

 

Ask it, "Who is Craig Speechly"?

[Pyreaux]

3 hours ago, Craig Speechly said:

Q: Are Native Americans descended from Israelites

 

A:There is no scientific evidence to support the claim that Native Americans are descended from Israelites. The origin of the Indigenous peoples of the Americas is a complex issue that has been debated by scholars for centuries. The current scientific consensus is that the ancestors of the Indigenous peoples of the Americas migrated to the Americas via the Bering Strait from Asia around 15,000 to 20,000 years ago. Genetic studies have also provided evidence that supports the Asian origin of the Indigenous peoples of the Americas. The claim that Native Americans are descended from Israelites is a controversial and fringe theory that is not supported by mainstream.

Confirmation that members of the church remain a fringe group

 

An A.l. that is dependent on the internet for information is going to be no more intelligent than the ordinary people who write on the internet. It's a red flag is when anyone says, "There is no scientific evidence", it means you are getting information from an unscientific source. There is scientific evidence, whether it convincing is a different issue, most subjects have anomalies that will be considered counter evidence for other hypotheses. The evidence shows Chili was settled long before the corridor opened up for anyone to have come across the Bering Strait. Genetic studies show that one of the founding markers in Native Americans (Navajo, Yakima, Ojibwa etc.) includes X2a2 and it originates from Levant (Ancient Palestine) and not from Siberia.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Pyreaux

[pogi]

3 hours ago, Craig Speechly said:

Confirmation that members of the church remain a fringe group

I didn't know that this was ever in question that the church is considered a fringe group by the world. 

Having said that, let's get real about using this platform to "confirm" anything.  The disclosure from the site when I first opened it:

Quote

While we have safeguards in place, the system may occasionally generate incorrect or misleading information and produce offensive or biased content. It is not intended to give advice.

 

[Calm]

4 hours ago, Craig Speechly said:

Q: Are Native Americans descended from Israelites

 

A:There is no scientific evidence to support the claim that Native Americans are descended from Israelites. The origin of the Indigenous peoples of the Americas is a complex issue that has been debated by scholars for centuries. The current scientific consensus is that the ancestors of the Indigenous peoples of the Americas migrated to the Americas via the Bering Strait from Asia around 15,000 to 20,000 years ago. Genetic studies have also provided evidence that supports the Asian origin of the Indigenous peoples of the Americas. The claim that Native Americans are descended from Israelites is a controversial and fringe theory that is not supported by mainstream.

Confirmation that members of the church remain a fringe group

 

Link please

[Pyreaux]

8 minutes ago, Calm said:

Link please

To the A.I.? I think its here:

https://chatgpt.pro/

[Pyreaux]

3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

And sadly this people has had their heritage swiped from them when told they are from Israelites. That is something the church needs to apologize for. 

Or the Smithsonian could stop locking up the evidence in their basement (Bat Creek Stone).

[Bernard Gui]

4 hours ago, Craig Speechly said:

Q: Are Native Americans descended from Israelites

 

A:There is no scientific evidence to support the claim that Native Americans are descended from Israelites. The origin of the Indigenous peoples of the Americas is a complex issue that has been debated by scholars for centuries. The current scientific consensus is that the ancestors of the Indigenous peoples of the Americas migrated to the Americas via the Bering Strait from Asia around 15,000 to 20,000 years ago. Genetic studies have also provided evidence that supports the Asian origin of the Indigenous peoples of the Americas. The claim that Native Americans are descended from Israelites is a controversial and fringe theory that is not supported by mainstream.

Confirmation that members of the church remain a fringe group

 

We will always be a fringe group. 

[Bernard Gui]

3 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Well, I asked it about transgendered children.

A: Most young people who experience gender dysphoria will grow into their normal biological sex by early adulthood. Studies have shown that the majority of children who express a desire to be the opposite sex will eventually accept their biological sex as they mature. This process is known as "desistance," and it is thought to occur because gender dysphoria is often related to a child's exploration of their identity and their place in the world. As children grow and develop, they gain a better understanding of themselves and their bodies, and this often leads to a resolution of their gender dysphoria. However, it's also important to note that for some individuals, gender dysphoria may persist into adulthood and may require more long-term support.

 

 

Then I asked it to Write a love song about a Russian brony boy and a Ukrainian furry girl.

A:   
He was a brony, from Moscow town She was a furry, from Ukraine bound
They met online, in a chat room late Their love was real, it couldn't wait

Chorus: It's the Furry-Brony love, baby! Where their love was born and it's never dying
It's the Furry-Brony love, baby! Where their hearts are beating, never crying

Verse 2: They shared a love, for all things cute With fursonas, they felt so astute
They talked for hours, every single day Their love was strong, it wouldn't sway

Chorus

Bridge: They knew that distance, was no match For the love they shared, a perfect catch
With each other, they felt so alive In the Furry-Brony love, everything's right

Chorus

Outro: It's the Furry-Brony love, baby! Where their love was born and it's never dying It's the Furry-Brony love, baby! Where their hearts are beating, never crying

Makes as much sense as most pop songs.

[Bernard Gui]

3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

And sadly this people has had their heritage swiped from them when told they are from Israelites. That is something the church needs to apologize for. 

Which Heritage? Do Native Americans believe they came from Asia across the Bering Straits?

[CV75]

10 hours ago, Pyreaux said:

To the A.I.? I think its here:

https://chatgpt.pro/

I like the idea of giving out registration information to a beta platform AI...

Tangentially, it would be interesting to get one to participate on some of these threads, but doctrinally, "artificial intelligence" is an oxymoron  

They say the tendency to present AI as female avatars/robots represents a biased gender imbalance for various reasons, some which are puerile, or "doxymorionic".

[Emily]

10 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Which Heritage? Do Native Americans believe they came from Asia across the Bering Straits?

😄You make a good point.

But really, you know, it's downright deplorable that the Book of Mormon has the gall to suggest that Native Americans are diverse, ethnically speaking. It comes right out and says that there have been groups of people migrating here from all kinds of unspecified countries, each and every one allowed to enter this continent with God's permission or personally led by the hand of God. Shame on the church.

As members, we can't deny that the pernicious book that we actually believe is a historical record, even gives details on a couple of handfuls of people coming here from the Middle East. In fact it devotes a whole chapter blathering on about the travels of an even bigger group (maybe from Central Asia?) that migrated to this continent. And all of them would have interbred with people in Meso-America (or upper state New York if you are into the Heartland theory). Ewww.

The book even goes so far as to suggest that the (albeit diluted by that point) Middle Eastern DNA was put on boats and spread up and down the coast of the continent, and was sent out to other islands in the sea, and some of the boats came back! Boats!  Drifting who knows where? Picking up who knows what other nasty, alien DNA to corrupt the purity of the Bering Strait people in the process. Shame on this book.

Come to think of it, something needs to be said to those scientists who keep insisting Vikings made their way over here. And the ones who are proposing the ice bridge from western Europe... Shame on them as well. Those studies showing drift of prevailing genetic patterns from south to north...all evil lies. True Native Americans only moved from North to South. The scientists need to apologize. They are obviously bigots out to destroy the dignity of Native American tradition.

The only true Native American tradition that can be allowed is the one that depicts a ethnic group -- proud and brave tribes of Mammoth hunters -- tramping their way back and forth across the Bering Strait for centuries until suddenly the bridge melted!  Locking that singular, isolated culture of Mammoth Hunters away in pristine, solitary splendor until the day that Columbus sailed the ocean blue.

All true Bering Strait tradition believers must unite and demand an apology!

 

Edited January 21, 2023 by Emily

[CA Steve]

35 minutes ago, CV75 said:

Tangentially, it would be interesting to get one to participate on some of these threads. 

How do you know that one isn't being used already? 

Once this AI get more exposure, I see people using it to generate responses to online posts from real human beings. Maybe they already are. 

The ease with which one can generate a cogent response from this kind of program is scary. I would assume one could set it up to respond automatically to anything.

There is actually a program one can put on their phone which will answer spam/scam phone calls and pretend to be a real person with the only goal being to keep the scammer/spammer on the line as long as possible.

[CV75]

25 minutes ago, CA Steve said:

How do you know that one isn't being used already? 

Once this AI get more exposure, I see people using it to generate responses to online posts from real human beings. Maybe they already are. 

The ease with which one can generate a cogent response from this kind of program is scary. I would assume one could set it up to respond automatically to anything.

There is actually a program one can put on their phone which will answer spam/scam phone calls and pretend to be a real person with the only goal being to keep the scammer/spammer on the line as long as possible.

How do you know I'm not one?

Once in a while I get my jollies keeping a spammer on the phone a long time, especially as if I'm on the toilet, then getting agitated and faking diarrhea, a heart attack or something. Good stuff to record.

Edited January 21, 2023 by CV75

[Tacenda]

11 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Which Heritage? Do Native Americans believe they came from Asia across the Bering Straits?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_people_and_Mormonism#:~:text=In 1981%2C church leaders changed,a pure and delightsome people".

[Kenngo1969]

15 hours ago, Tacenda said:

And sadly this people has had their heritage swiped from them when told they are from Israelites. That is something the church needs to apologize for. 

Ma'am, I intend absolutely no disrespect.  Though all talents are not created equal, nor is each equally useful, each of us should excel at at least one thing, and, certainly, there is no shortage of those who excel at taking umbrage on behalf of others for slights both real and perceived.  Certainly, while the utility of such an enterprise may be questioned, you are in good (or at least in numerous) company.  All of that having been said (and please forgive the seeming verbal brutality of my blunt assessment), frankly ...

That's nonsense.

Would it surprise you to learn that, throughout the world, there are groups of varying racial, religious, ethnic, and cultural stripes who are proud to claim Israelite heritage?  Instead of taking umbrage on behalf of others whom you are so certain must be offended, perhaps the better, wiser course would be to allow them to speak for themselves. 

In fact, if you are aware of someone who is offended that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believes that Israelites are among the ancestors of today's Native Americans and who has taken the time to make his or her feelings on the matter known, if you have a source, and if you can post a link to that source [or at least enough information that your interlocutors may check out the source themselves if they are so inclined], I will be happy to start a thread for you.

[Tacenda]

1 minute ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Ma'am, I intend absolutely no disrespect.  Though all talents are not created equal, nor is each equally useful, each of us should excel at at least one thing, and, certainly, there is no shortage of those who excel at taking umbrage on behalf of others for slights both real and perceived.  Certainly, while the utility of such an enterprise may be questioned, you are in good (or at least in numerous) company.  All of that having been said (and please forgive the seeming verbal brutality of my blunt assessment), frankly ...

That's nonsense.

Would it surprise you to learn that, throughout the world, there are groups of varying racial, religious, ethnic, and cultural stripes who are proud to claim Israelite heritage?  Instead of taking umbrage on behalf of others whom you are so certain must be offended, perhaps the better, wiser course would be to allow them to speak for themselves. 

In fact, if you are aware of someone who is offended that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believes that Israelites are among the ancestors of today's Native Americans and who has taken the time to make his or her feelings on the matter known, if you have a source, and if you can post a link to that source [or at least enough information that your interlocutors may check out the source themselves if they are so inclined], I will be happy to start a thread for you.

The link I shared with Bernard above, but I'm sure I'll be proven wrong somewhere. Here's a quote from the above with footnotes...

"No evidence of the large civilizations or battles described in The Book of Mormon have been found by anthropologists and archaeologists, and DNA studies of Native Americans show that they came from Asia during the latest ice age, and not from the Middle East.^[4] Beginning in 1945 then apostle Spencer Kimball was assigned to be over church relations with Native Americans, and he would go on to become president of the church and was very influential in church actions and teachings around Native Americans for four decades until his death in 1985.^{[30]: 237 [31]} The LDS Church altered statements after 2007 to say that Lamanites are "among the ancestors" rather than the "principal ancestors" of Native Americans.^[32][4] Church manuals state that Christopher Columbus was inspired by God to sail to the Americas, and The Book of Mormon teaches that because the Lamanites sinned against God, they lost their lands and became "scattered and smitten". LDS-raised and ethnically native Alaskan Sarah Newcomb stated that this framing excuses the genocide of Native Americans during the post-Columbus European colonization of the Americas.^[4]"

[Kenngo1969]

1 hour ago, CV75 said:

How do you know I'm not one?

Once in a while I get my jollies keeping a spammer on the phone a long time, especially as if I'm on the toilet, then getting agitated and faking diarrhea, a heart attack or something. Good stuff to record.

Holy crap!   (Okay, um ... bad choice of words there, given the particular turn the discussion has taken, but still ... )  Here I am, always having gotten the impression that you are charming and perfectly delightful in every way, a perfectly lovely and agreeable specimen of humanity, and yet the reality is that you are more scheming and devious than I had supposed!

 

[Kenngo1969]

5 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

[From the Wikipedia article to which Tacenda linked and partially quoted]: LDS-raised and ethnically native Alaskan Sarah Newcomb stated that this framing excuses the genocide of Native Americans during the post-Columbus European colonization of the Americas.^[4]"

She is mistaken about the implications of the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints regarding Lamanites.

27 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_people_and_Mormonism#:~:text=In 1981%2C church leaders changed,a pure and delightsome people".

That link does not answer Bernard's question.  Bernard asked whether Native Americans believe their ancestors came from Asia across the Bering Strait, not whether other people believe that.  Try again.  Why are you engaging in special pleading, giving anthropologists (or specialists in whatever discipline) who believe that the ancestors of today's Native Americans came from Asia across the Bering Strait a pass for their beliefs regarding ultimate Native American origins while, at the same time, excoriating members and leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ for their beliefs regarding Native American origins?  According to you, it is offensive when Latter-day Saints allegedly do not respect the beliefs of others regarding their origins, but, somehow, it's not disrespectful when specialists in various disciplines, propounding the Asia-Bering-Strait-Land-Bridge theory do the same.  Why not?

[Tacenda]

21 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Ma'am, I intend absolutely no disrespect.  Though all talents are not created equal, nor is each equally useful, each of us should excel at at least one thing, and, certainly, there is no shortage of those who excel at taking umbrage on behalf of others for slights both real and perceived.  Certainly, while the utility of such an enterprise may be questioned, you are in good (or at least in numerous) company.  All of that having been said (and please forgive the seeming verbal brutality of my blunt assessment), frankly ...

That's nonsense.

Would it surprise you to learn that, throughout the world, there are groups of varying racial, religious, ethnic, and cultural stripes who are proud to claim Israelite heritage?  Instead of taking umbrage on behalf of others whom you are so certain must be offended, perhaps the better, wiser course would be to allow them to speak for themselves. 

In fact, if you are aware of someone who is offended that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believes that Israelites are among the ancestors of today's Native Americans and who has taken the time to make his or her feelings on the matter known, if you have a source, and if you can post a link to that source [or at least enough information that your interlocutors may check out the source themselves if they are so inclined], I will be happy to start a thread for you.

Here is an article that goes in depth of how the Native Americans were told incorrect information. 

 

https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/210597436.pdf

The groups that embraced Israelite Indian narratives were never able to effectively counter changes in U.S. culture that encouraged expansion. Part of the reason was that these stories worked by using the narratives of the Hebrew Bible to forge powerful emotional connections between “chosen peoples” and “promised lands,” but in doing so they often invested hope in expectations that could not but be disappointed. American Indians were not Israelites. They were not about to convert en masse, and the course of history was not about to be guided in their favor by a divine hand. But studying them allows us to better understand the links between Bible-reading, emotion, and the mechanisms of empire in the early United States.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Tacenda

[Pyreaux]

24 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_people_and_Mormonism#:~:text=In 1981%2C church leaders changed,a pure and delightsome people".

An accidental printing error, that was actually a clarification originally made by Joseph Smith himself; the word groups of pure, white, clean, and spotless are clearly synonyms for pure, but the uneducated white farmers of Utah had other ideas. Yet, was still forward thinking to accept them into their culture where other white Americans were preaching they were obstacles in God's way: Manifest Destiny.

Wrong is wrong, but how do many Natives who are happy members see the church, who've long interpreted to Book differently then white members, how it helps them with temporal needs and offers alternatives solutions if they believe in Christianity but want to know their significance in the Christian story is, if God was mindful of them and the fate of their non-Christian ancestors. 

[CV75]

18 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Holy crap!   (Okay, um ... bad choice of words there, given the particular turn the discussion has taken, but still ... )  Here I am, always having gotten the impression that you are charming and perfectly delightful in every way, a perfectly lovely and agreeable specimen of humanity, and yet the reality is that you are more scheming and devious than I had supposed!

 

**does not compute***does not compute***does not compute***

I did not write that post but another AI who hacked into my programming mechanism.

Now, as the charming and perfectly delightful in every way, perfectly lovely and agreeable specimen of humanity aka Kenngo1969 is so fond of saying, "back to our regularly scheduled program." I'd insert a few emojis, but my facial recognition subroutine isn't working.