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Colorado Nightclub Shooter is a (Nominal) Member of the Church


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“"Nearby cities like Spokane were our version of Sodom and Gomorrah," Thomas added, "and many of my peers would talk about taking trips there to commit violence on anyone they saw. I was never included on one of these trips, but they absolutely took place."”

Saints as backwoods thugs who head into the city to attack unsuspecting innocents. That’s an idea that is hard to wrapped my head around. 

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23 hours ago, jkwilliams said:

I was thinking of the talk I attended where homosexuals were named as one of the three great threats to the church. Frankly, what I heard growing up makes the “muskets” thing seem pretty tame.

The muskets thing is very tame without having to compare it to any other talks, but no doubt some horrible things have been said in the past, especially by local leaders. 

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8 hours ago, Calm said:

”The LDS Church, traditionally hostile to the LGBTQ community, has been making positive reforms in favour of gay people. In 2016, the church opened its doors to LGBTQ individuals.”

Where is that even coming from?  All I can think of is maybe the publicity around Mitch Mayne as executive secretary could have been misunderstood as being a member as opposed to holding a calling (though being openly gay never stopped one from having any calling as long as one was committed to celibacy as I understand it, there were limitations on working with youth at one time, correct?), but I just checked and that was 2011, so I haven’t a clue. 

This is possibly what it is referring to, the update/release of the web site “Mormons and Gays”.  Wonder if they even looked at the site..

https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/25/living/mormon-gay-website/index.html
 

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No issue in the last decade has divided churches as deeply as homosexuality. As public opinion – and scientific understanding – on sexuality has shifted with remarkable speed, many denominations, including Mormon leaders, have had to grapple with a difficult question: How do they maintain traditional doctrine that homosexual acts are sinful, while accepting and ministering to gay and lesbian Mormons who sincerely wish to remain part of their church? 

Unveiled on Tuesday, “Mormon and Gay” is one answer to that question. 

The web page features video messages and essays from five church members, including Rosas, who identify as same-sex attracted, gay, lesbian or bisexual. The materials are intended to facilitate empathetic understanding and provide information on sexual identification, church doctrine and mental health resources. 

Senior church leaders call these new materials “simply an update” from the webpage “Mormons and Gays,” released in 2012 on a domain unaffiliated with the church’s official website. (“Mormons and Gays” now redirects to the new “Mormons and Gay” page.) 

Still, the new materials present small but significant changes. 

Mitch Mayne, a prominent gay Mormon and blogger, said, “Above and beyond getting into the content of the website, the URL is absolutely fantastic – it’s an inclusive statement.” 

Beyond the title, the update presents a marked shift away from exclusionary rhetoric. 

While the previous site prominently displayed the church’s doctrinal stance against homosexual activity on its homepage, the new materials feature the stories of gay members. “Church Teachings” is located on a separate page; roughly 1,700 words and five videos on “loving one another” precede the first direct statement that “homosexual activity is a sin.” 

Still, the webpages are housed in a section of the church website dedicated to helping members deal with life’s “many challenges,” including “abuse,” “disabilities,” and “suicide.”

Jessyca Fulmer believes this church’s shift is “monumental.”

Fulmer, who self-identifies as a gay Mormon and is featured on the new website, said the new materials “give us a stepping stone to have more open communication about this and to educate others on how to help and how to respond to somebody who is gay.”

Another unlikely possibility is Elder Bednar’s comment given how it was twisted to make it appear they were excluded from the Church rather than not using labels for people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_and_the_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints

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Apostle David A. Bednar answered a member's question in a February 23 broadcast stating that there are no homosexual members of the church since we are not defined by sexual attraction or behavior. He compared homosexuality to a physical handicap

Also:

https://www.ldsliving.com/what-the-media-got-wrong-about-elder-bednars-comments-on-gay-members/s/81467

Edited by Calm
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8 minutes ago, Calm said:

This is likely what it is referring to, the release of the web page “Mormons and Gays”.  Wonder if they even looked at the page.

https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/25/living/mormon-gay-website/index.html
 

 

I am thankful on this day that the church is fluid enough to make needed changes as they arise. :)Not many died in the wool churches do that. ETA: I know this article is in 2016 but looking at the recent support the church gave for the same sex marriage protections does my heart good. Even a certain senator in my neck of the woods wouldn't support it. https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/252872/sen-mike-lee-challenges-republicans-backing-respect-for-marriage-act

Edited by Tacenda
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Saw this on Reddit, I wondered if it was legit, plenty of errors but maybe it makes it even more real.

r/exmormon - Screenshot of bishop's email to a Colorado Springs ward regarding shooting

I like what this redditor had to say as well, here's a c/p but not the full quote:

But there’s no evidence that the Church or its modern teachings played any role in the life of the shooter. His dad says he’s “Mormon,” but look at the guy: I’d bet money he hasn’t step foot in a church for ten years. He’s a Jack Mormon at best—identifies as a Mormon and uses it to excuse his shitty behavior/beliefs, but come on. The guy has nothing to do with the Church.

Unless the shooter comes out and says Mormonism was a motivator, I’m done trying to make that theory fit. There’s plenty to hate about Mormonism without needing to force the narrative that somehow the “musket fire” talk or other church teachings set this guy off—or even that he heard them.

My theory, which is much more likely: his father was an abusive monster who beat “weakness” out of his son. I’d bet money he abused the shooter’s mother too. He literally said he encouraged his son’s violent tendencies. He is full of hate—violent hate. As bigoted as the Church is, I don’t think they’d stand for the father, his views, or his child rearing. His son was a ticking time bomb, like John Wayne Gacy or Carl Panzram. I won’t excuse his actions either, but he didn’t have a chance with a father like that. 

Edited by Tacenda
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That is unfortunately not the least surprising to me.  Hopefully it is unnecessary and this was purely preventive and not the result of threats being made…though in this time where deaths threats are so common (I have even gotten one when a moderator for another board), I tend to assume they get made rather than not.

Edited by Calm
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56 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

But there’s no evidence that the Church or its modern teachings played any role in the life of the shooter. His dad says he’s “Mormon,” but look at the guy: I’d bet money he hasn’t step foot in a church for ten years. He’s a Jack Mormon at best—identifies as a Mormon and uses it to excuse his shitty behavior/beliefs, but come on. The guy has nothing to do with the Church.

 

More like 20 years I am guessing…(they divorced in 2001 and the dad had no real contact with the son since apparently according the mom, iirc).

That dad is one of the very few times I have wished the Church was more pushy on excommunicating those breaking its standards so completely.

Edited by Calm
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1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

My theory, which is much more likely: his father was an abusive monster who beat “weakness” out of his son.

The dad wasn’t around much to beat the kid apparently, though he did abuse the mom in the first year or so of the kid’s life (I have heard it as the first few years, but most reports I am reading is they got divorced in 2001 iirc and even though he got visitation rights, he never used them though perhaps that was from the mom and there has been some contact, but not apparently for at least 9 years I am guessing given in 2016 Aldrich stated no contact for several years and then the mom told the dad they had killed themselves).  We will probably be getting more details on how much contact there was, this former family’s life is going to get throughly dissected and my guess is the dad can’t keep his mouth shut.

I wonder how accurate the dad’s comments about his interactions are given his past drug use (one report claims he is a recovering addict).

Added:  Otoh we have…

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In 2002, he was convicted for misdemeanor battery and was barred from contacting his ex-wife and son, and he was also sentenced to two and a half years for trafficking marijuana and then violated his supervised release conditions by testing positive for illegal steroids.

On the other…

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The 48-year-old, who currently works as a mixed martial arts coach and previously competed in the UFC and World Extreme Cagefighting, taught his son how to fight from an early age. 

The drug addict told CBS 8: 'I praised him for violent behavior really early. I told him it works. It is instant and you'll get immediate results.'

I suppose there could be a 7 year period (assuming the no contact was at least for 2 1/2 years, so around 2005 and there was no contact after 2012) where some contact took place if what the mom said wasn’t that accurate (that he didn’t take advantage of his visitation rights)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11463995/Colorado-club-killers-porn-star-dad-worried-son-gay-heard-massacre.html

Edited by Calm
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I decided to check out what websleuths is saying on this crime (great for getting background, but depressing to hang out on) and one poster had this to say about the possible reason Aldrich was never charged with the bomb threat:

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My experience with the Colorado legal system (mostly regarding DV) is that they will often plea bargain a first offense (even if it's serious) for a year of probation. If probation is successfully completed, the conviction is sealed. If it involved his mother, which it sounds like it did, that makes it domestic.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/co-5-dead-18-injured-in-shooting-at-club-q-colorado-springs.645273/page-2#post-17904338

But a plea bargain would result in a charge, right?  And no charge was made…

Another poster who sounds like they are very informed, says there are a few sheriffs in CO, including in the area of the shooting that were uninterested in supporting the law.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/co-5-dead-18-injured-in-shooting-at-club-q-colorado-springs.645273/page-4#post-17909493
 

If that was the reason, my guess is they are about to lose their job.

Another poster confirms El Paso LE do not enforce red flag laws

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/co-5-dead-18-injured-in-shooting-at-club-q-colorado-springs.645273/page-4#post-17911482

summary of the bomb threat incident

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/co-5-dead-18-injured-in-shooting-at-club-q-colorado-springs.645273/page-6#post-17916740

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The jist of the news, in my opinion, is that in summer 2021 Anderson was upset the grandparents planned to move to Florida. Anderson told the grandparents that Anderson was building a bomb in the basement and moving would disrupt plans to commit mass murder. As the grandmother hand a phone in her hand to contact police, Anderson pulled a Glock on grandparents and pointed it at them, took the phone away, and threatened murder-suicide unless they promised not to move, and held them hostage as they begged for their lives. They agreed not to move to Florida, and after at time were able to escape from the house and contact police. That's why Anderson left home and ended up at the house where mom rented a room telling her on the Ring video that the police were looking for Anderson and threatening violence. 

After reading that, I am less sympathetic for Aldrich even if his parents did a number on him as he terrorized his grandparents (I get the impression they were moving because of him, but maybe he was only abusive after they told him…seems more likely though this wasn’t new behaviour, just more extreme.

Edited by Calm
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This might have been posted…

https://nypost.com/2022/11/22/accused-colorado-gunman-used-anti-gay-slurs-neighbor-says/

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Kraus, who said he once considered the accused gunman a friend, also acknowledged that Aldrich “said things sometimes that probably should have been alarming to me,” including a vile homophobic slur.

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In a separate interview, Kraus said Aldrich confided that he was a former drug user.

“He was addicted to opium and opened up about a previous heroin addiction,” he told CBS News.

First court appearance is Dec 6

Edited by Calm
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On 11/22/2022 at 10:04 AM, HappyJackWagon said:

The title of this thread is laughable.

As long as the shooter was only a "nominal" member of the church, then all is well. Maybe church affiliation had ZERO to do with this guy's belief system, but then again, maybe some of the teachings he grew up did play a role. Regardless, the church as a whole shouldn't be blamed for every bad actor. Yet, this stuff doesn't happen in a vacuum. 

Details matter, the article itself is the one mentioning his inactivity to temper his affiliation, furthermore, the Colorado LGBT nightclub shooter is non-binary. So, these small details make it seem less likely to be a church inspired hate crime. 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/colorado-club-q-shooting-suspect-anderson-lee-aldrich-non-binary-public-defenders-say

Since after 30 minutes of the incident, the news reported it as “Anti-LGBTQ hate” and “right-wing”.

https://news.yahoo.com/colorado-springs-shooting-live-nightclub-044846370.html

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/11/22/colorado-gay-nightclub-shooter-non-binary-they-them-pronouns/

The Public Defender's revelation is shocking the media speechless.

 

Edited by Pyreaux
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7 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

the Colorado LGBT nightclub shooter is non-binary.

It needs to be noted this appears to be the first time they have made this public as their mother just referred to them as he/him and they were listed as male on their arrest record. Not saying it isn’t true, maybe they never had the nerve to tell their family…weird and so tragic way of going public with it. I don’t see how them claiming to be non binary excludes it from being church inspired.  What excludes it from being church inspired imo is the fact they probably haven’t attended church enough to be influenced as they have not been active much, if at all, since age 12 (wonder if even a deacon), lived a lifestyle contrary to church teaches, drank vodka and said to a friend they ware addicted to opium and took heroin a few times), used vulgarities frequently, talked about killing people a lot apparently.  No one has said they have ever mentioned the Church, though the father claimed to be a Mormon (has a drug and prison record extending back to the late 90’s as well as several porn movies under his belt, so my guess is not particularly active) and the mother is listed in the church directory along with the son and uses LDS moms FB group to ask for help (which could be sincere or a scam).

I couldn’t find anything about the maternal grandmother being a member; if she is not, the likelihood of it being at all church related drops significantly for me.  

I am also curious about how much interaction there has been with their maternal  grandfather who lives in California and is a member, but is not a great representative for the Church imo given his racist and some of his political views. Still, if active and if they visited him at all, they could have attended church with him.  But my guess is more likely to have been exposed to antiLGBTQ rhetoric at home and at school and online rather than at Church just because of the amount of time likely spent at each of the former compared to the latter. 

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21 minutes ago, Calm said:

It needs to be noted this appears to be the first time they have made this public as their mother just referred to them as he/him and they were listed as male on their arrest record. Not saying it isn’t true, maybe they never had the nerve to tell their family…weird and so tragic way of going public with it. I don’t see how them claiming to be non binary excludes it from being church inspired.

I don't see a Free Lawyer getting innovative or manufacturing a defense like that if its going to be easily debunked.

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1 hour ago, Pyreaux said:

I don't see a Free Lawyer…

Is there a reason to assume he is a public defender?  Did you read something indicating he was?

btw, don’t think it was the lawyer…see below

——

 I am going to use “he” here because if this pure speculation is true, “they” is inappropriate, will switch back to “they” when done speculating.  Typically I would never question self identification for a variety of reasons, but this is a very unusual case and so far there has been no evidence provided supporting such an identification and some to suggest Aldrich sees LGBTQs as “other”. At the very least that is how he has talked to one friend.  Doesn’t mean the identification is false, just means my mind is going to wander down some weird paths while I pass the time tonight not sleeping.

If it is a fake, I suspect Aldrich much more than any lawyer.  A lawyer would know it would not stop a hate crime charge, but if Aldrich got off the charges for the bomb threat by claiming mental disturbance, maybe this is another attempt by him to avoid consequences of criminal behaviour.

Pure speculation, but taken from the behaviour with the bomb threat, I wonder if he has suicidal ideation and assumed/planned for the end of the attack to have been his death (he didn’t surrender, got jumped in fact relatively quickly thank goodness; one of the guys who got Aldrich down said he had to beat Aldrich so hard to stop him he was afraid he had killed Aldrich so Aldrich wasn’t giving up).  Claiming to be non-binary could be Plan B to escape punishment.  
Maybe Aldrich thinks being non-binary will get him better treatment having bought into the claims LGBTQ are running the world or whatever (just spent some time over on LDSFF and have learned the over achieving LGBTQs have taken over the Church so that is contributing to the weird mindpath venture)

It also seems Aldrich hates his dad. At least his dad thinks he was saying stuff in the past just to piss him off (they talked on the phone about 6 months ago iirc, Aldrich called him).  I wonder if Aldrich is foolish enough to say it because of the dad, thinking it will hurt or embarrass him. Given his dad’s reaction, he would be right. 
 

Speculation on whether they are actually non-binary over… 

Edited by Calm
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40 minutes ago, Calm said:

Is there a reason to assume he is a public defender?  Did you read something indicating he was?

Those Fox News and Breit Bart links, and every report I've seen about the shooter being "non-binary" all say it was first revealed to us via a court document filed by his State Public Defender, Joseph Archambault.

Colorado Club Q shooting suspect is 'non-binary,' public defenders say

Edited by Pyreaux
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4 hours ago, sunstoned said:

I am not sure if this is authentic. There are a lot of typos.

I'm not sure it is authentic either, but the typos don't bother me.  Being my ward's bullitin person I have received communication from both ward and stake leadership that haven't been written well.

 

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12 hours ago, blackstrap said:

I wonder who will get the blame .  A member of the Walmart community went postal and killed 6 members of the community in the break room and then shot himself. 

The gun, of course.  "We need to pass another law to prevent 'people like this' from getting guns."  The problem with that reasoning is that,by definition, people  who commit murder are not law abiding.

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1 hour ago, Kenngo1969 said:

The gun, of course.  "We need to pass another law to prevent 'people like this' from getting guns."  The problem with that reasoning is that,by definition, people  who commit murder are not law abiding.

Most people who commit these types of shootings purchase their guns legally. 

Just saying. 

 

With luv,

BD

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5 hours ago, Calm said:

Is there a reason to assume he is a public defender?  Did you read something indicating he was?

btw, don’t think it was the lawyer…see below

——

 I am going to use “he” here because if this pure speculation is true, “they” is inappropriate, will switch back to “they” when done speculating.  Typically I would never question self identification for a variety of reasons, but this is a very unusual case and so far there has been no evidence provided supporting such an identification and some to suggest Aldrich sees LGBTQs as “other”. At the very least that is how he has talked to one friend.  Doesn’t mean the identification is false, just means my mind is going to wander down some weird paths while I pass the time tonight not sleeping.

If it is a fake, I suspect Aldrich much more than any lawyer.  A lawyer would know it would not stop a hate crime charge, but if Aldrich got off the charges for the bomb threat by claiming mental disturbance, maybe this is another attempt by him to avoid consequences of criminal behaviour.

Pure speculation, but taken from the behaviour with the bomb threat, I wonder if he has suicidal ideation and assumed/planned for the end of the attack to have been his death (he didn’t surrender, got jumped in fact relatively quickly thank goodness; one of the guys who got Aldrich down said he had to beat Aldrich so hard to stop him he was afraid he had killed Aldrich so Aldrich wasn’t giving up).  Claiming to be non-binary could be Plan B to escape punishment.  
Maybe Aldrich thinks being non-binary will get him better treatment having bought into the claims LGBTQ are running the world or whatever (just spent some time over on LDSFF and have learned the over achieving LGBTQs have taken over the Church so that is contributing to the weird mindpath venture)

It also seems Aldrich hates his dad. At least his dad thinks he was saying stuff in the past just to piss him off (they talked on the phone about 6 months ago iirc, Aldrich called him).  I wonder if Aldrich is foolish enough to say it because of the dad, thinking it will hurt or embarrass him. Given his dad’s reaction, he would be right. 
 

Speculation on whether they are actually non-binary over… 

Ive been thinking the same thing. It seems a little too convenient that he just comes out right when he commits mass murder and is facing a potential hate crime charge. I could picture him being stupid enough to think this will somehow help his case. And like you, I've never been so hesitant to you preferred pronouns. 

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Watching the Church make statements on many issues like, racism, gays, immigration etc. and then seeing how members react has made me feel the church needs to take it a step further, start providing examples. Too many members ‘justify’ their position and politics on these issues. Especially at the local level, all over social media and forums. (Example: I know a local high council member who openly uses the N word still and yet justifies it as not being racist.)

While the church has given some very strong statements on racism, it might be time to actually provide some real world examples of what racism actually IS. Same with dealing with anti gay rights movements/efforts, etc. 

I also think it might be time to start reading some of the Church’s statements at the pulpit. I know many members that have never heard the church’s recent statements on many of these subjects. Including many local leaders. When you point it out you can see the mental gymnastics begin.

I know a lot of members don’t know the Church is supporting the ‘Respect for Marriage Act’ and are shocked when it comes up.

To many are still reading and posting old quotes from Ezra Taft Benson, Brigham Young, Joseph F Smith, etc. to justify their positions and their politics.

Edited by Ragerunner
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